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Author Topic: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years  (Read 1839 times)

ericjansen

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1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« on: July 09, 2019, 10:46:55 AM »

I figured that this forum is probably more appropriate to post my recent static model builds than the RC based RC forum.

So I will re-post the 30 years (...) built of the 1:25 Endeavour II, as well as the on-going project of converting a cheaply bought model into an 1:25 William Fife III 15 meter class. 

Here I go with the built-from-scratch 1:25 Endeavour II, which, after exactly 30 years, is now finished.

It all started in the middle 1980's, when some friends and me got kind of lost in the lowlands of The Netherlands, ending up at the Huisman Shipyard in Vollenhoven.

The yard had just received the bare hull of the Endeavour II from the UK, and she was still standing outside on a minimalist cradle.

I will never forget the impression I got from standing under the hull, with her huge overhangs on both sides, way too large to see them at the same time.
Although never done anything like that before, I there and then decided that I wanted to build a model of her, initially to be R/C model.
And of course it needed to be huge, so 1:25 it was.

Problem was that there was very little information, internet did not really exist for these things, so all I had was a copy of a French magazine with a lines plan, however from the Endeavor II.
Luckily, I was a last year Naval Architecture student, so with a lot of measuring and scaling, I drafter the lines plan on the 1:25 scale after school hours.

The plan was to make a counter plug from polyester, so to be able to make the final lay-up hull in the counter plug.
The day after graduation, I bought lots of triplex and other materials, I turned my fathers garage into a shipyard, cut all frames and boards, and planked the wooden plug in a couple of weeks.

And there it kind of stopped.
I did manage to fit a temporary deck, a mast from some PVC pipe, and painted her up so I could display her, but that was about it for 29 years.
I went for an other year of studying Industrial Sales, started working, started travelling, moved to Asia at the end of the nineties, and never really had the time nor interest to do anything on her.
I did bring the hull with me though, she went from Holland to Taiwan, then to China, and then finally back to Taiwan some years ago.
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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 01:02:13 PM »

o, until the end of last year, that same hull had been standing as a unfinished model, or just packed up in one of her many transport boxes.
Together with the heat and humidity here, it had taken a toll, she had lost her nose, some of the support was loose, she started to loose her shape, etc.
I considered to scrap her altogether, but frankly could not come to that.

So instead, I decided to change my initial plan, forget about R/C, and finish her as a static model.
I removed the deck, removed most of the internals like frames, and reinstalled sufficient support to re-fair the hull.
Fairing a hull like this is a very pleasant experience, and I think that got all of my enthusiasm for this project back again.
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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2019, 12:42:29 PM »

With the hull saved from destruction, I had to make a decision on what I wanted to do:

1. a model of the authentic Endeavour
II as she was in the 1937 America's Cup, or

2. a model of the present "Endeavour II", the 2009 Royal Huisman built Hanuman.

After some consideration, I set my goal on a representation of the 1937 version.
An additional challenge I gave myself is to work out the deck layout exactly as it was then, with each and every line going exactly as it was (this opposite of most models I have seen, where there is very little detail on this aspect).

There was/is plenty of information / pictures of the Endeavour I (I was even involved in her deck outfitting in 1989 while working for Lewmar, the winch company), but there was/is very few info on the Endeavour II.
All in all, I found about ~20 black and white pictures, 2 videos (although mostly showing the I, not the II), and of course the info in the books about the J class.

So, with this limited info I had to figure out how it was all done in the nineteen thirties, when winches were used, but in a totally different way than on board today's yachts.

The first thing I made were 2 scale figures, representing the sizes of a male and female, to be able to scale back and check the pictures.
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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2019, 12:49:39 PM »

So with the decision for the 1937 version made, it was back to the drawing board, working out the details.

Added longitudinal stiffening and extra brackets to combine some stiffening of the hull with the support for the deck, the mast and the rigging.
Further, as the deck has both camber and sheer, I needed some real stiff base to clamp the one piece deck on.

The only recess in the deck was for the floor of the pilot house cockpit, so prepared for that as well.
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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2019, 12:54:54 PM »

As I decided to make it a static model only, I closed the deck without any further access.
So, before closing, I painted all internal woodwork several times, then added ~1kg of ballast in the lower aft part of the keel (to keep her balanced on the stand).

After a firm round of fairing the deck beams in the final deck camber + sheer, I glued the deck, using Gorilla glue.
I used the same bubbling glue ~30 years ago for the hull planking, and it seems to last forever.

It is hard to see on the pictures, but there is quite a bit of deck camber on these vintage ships, so , it needed quite a bit of strength to keep it all together while hardening.
After that, it was just a matter of cleaning up and sanding the overlapping deck to shape.
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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2019, 12:59:30 PM »

With the hull now one solid piece, it was back to the roof for a final fairing session, then some layers of white paint for the hull and deck surrounds.

Adding correct water lines is always a lot of fiddling, but with a large flat table and a lot of measuring they came out correctly.

Then, after 30 years, it was time for her final layers of paint, quite satisfying.
The blue for the hull is pretty close to the real thing (showing light in sunshine, rather dark if not), the anti fouling red was just a guess (and the only spray bottle color which came close).
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SailorGreg

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2019, 06:32:09 PM »

Lovely job.   :-)) :-)) :-))

ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2019, 01:19:31 AM »

Thank you.

In order to get the most accurate deck layout (one of my targets as mentioned before), I did several mock up sessions to determine the exact location of all fixed and running gear, especially in relation to each other .

Needless to say, only figuring this out was a job in itself.
There is only one slightly accurate plan of the Endeavour
II, so I mainly worked it out by comparing this plan to vintage pictures, then to how it looked on this model.
That's where Mr. and Mrs. Sopwith came in handy ...
I think I have most operations correct.

As a 1936/-37 racing yacht, things changed constantly on board, but my final representation mimics the America's Cup participation fairly closely.
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roycv

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2019, 12:12:04 PM »

Hello Ericjansen.I have built the Amati Undeavour kit and installed radio control, I think 1 : 30th scale, so about a metre loa.
I am confused re your references to the Endeavour (1) and 2.  As I understand it the 1934 Endeavour sailed across the Atlantic rigged with 2 mast, to take part in the 1934 Cup.  She was built by Camper and Nicholson in the UK.
Later in 1937 a second Endeavour was built in the USA I believe a little longer but I do not have any other information.  The original Endeavour was sailed back to the UK in 1935.  She dominated the UK racing scene.
I understand she then made another visit to the USA in company with Endeavour 2.  On the return journey she was being towed and the line broke and after much searching was found and came back to the UK.  I do not think she was raced again.  Did Endeavour 2 return as well?  I do not know.
.
However Endeavour 1 ended up a a hulk and the lead keel was removed to make amunition during WW2.  Elizabeth Meyer took over the hulk and it went to the Dutch shipyard you mentioned.  It was refurbished for commercial use a propeller was fitted in the rudder area and she sails a foot lower than her original designed waterline.

 So the refurbished yacht would seem to be the 1934 build.  Not as you have suggested the Endeavour 2

Some bodys superyacht (powered) now has the name Endeavour 2.  Does Endeavour 2 still exist?  I did not know.

The sailplan for Endeavour (1) was very large with a long main boom which overhangs the stern.  I could not find an easy solution for this and so I shortened it and fitted a backstay.  With the overhanging main boom there has to be support for the mast and when sailing the shrouds are released on the leeward side and it was this I had to forego in the model.

 I note your drawings for Endeavour2 have a shortened main boom but retain the extra shrouds, required by the overhanging boom.  Perhaps you could comment?

Many will remember the very wide triangular shaped main boom also referred to as the Park Lane boom as 2 people could walk along it side by side.  It was made wide so that the many metal ring attachments on the lower part of the sail could be adjusted to form a curve to make the sail a bit more efficient, the mind boggles on how this was adjusted between tacks.


The Endeavour 2 has shrouds attached to the side of the hull, not sure if I could see them on your model.
The J class yachts were grossly over canvassed and 15 knots of wind might see an end to racing for the day and even though my working version had a reduced sail area it was also too much. 

So I balanced the sailing areas to work for a single jib and main and when the wind and gets up I remove the quadrilateral, more of a Genoa really and she sails well but loses her identity.  I have to fit another forestay in place of the quad sail.
see references
 http://america-scoop.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=364:endeavour-s-story&catid=181&lang=en&Itemid=314
I am interested in the history, Endeavour (1934) appears to be the one that the Dutch shipyard restored, but some of the written records of events are not clearly distinguishing between the 2 yachts.

kind regards,
 Roy




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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2019, 01:31:31 PM »


Hi Roy,

Let me try to reply to your rather long story (which is pretty accurate by the way).

First, although I saw the Endeavour I at the Huisman Shipyard in the 1980's, I decided to built the Endeavour II as this model.
Maybe because she was considered the Super J at that time, no idea frankly.

The Endeavour I was finished in 1934, went indeed to the US, lost from Rainbow, and came back.
The owner, Thomas Sopwith, then decided to built the Endeavour II.
She was built to the max in the UK in 1936, had longer overhangs than the I, specially the forward one, and used a lot of the advanced technology from his airplane factory.
As we know, she lost as well, came back to the UK, but the war intervened, and she was sold for scrap afterwards.
Her hull was finally scrapped in the sixties.

Elisabeth Meyer rescued the Endeavour I, and the whole process was the beginning of the revival of the J's.
First some more were saved or restored, then new ones were built according authentic line plans.
Endeavour II lives again since 2009 as the HANUMAN, built by the Royal Huisman shipyard (the one who rebuilt Endeavour I as well).

Note: I spent a lot of time figuring out if vintage pictures were from the I or from the II.
Even in some old videos, they talk about the II, but show the I.
With time, I found what to look for to decide ...


On the sailplan: All original J's lacked a fixed backstay.
The length of the boom plus the shape of the mainsail did not allow for that.
I also think that coming from the big gaff rigged vessels, they were quite used to the various runners.

However, I think all refitted and new J-s have a fixed backstay, for the same purpose as on your model, extra safety and less complexity.
Also, materials came a long way, and masts plus standing rigging are wayyyy stronger than they were in the 1930's.

The drawing I made in 1988 was my plan for the RC version, with the same considerations as you.
However, I did not proceed that way for the static model I finally ended up with (as you will see later on...).

The Park Avenue boom was actually fitted with tracks, and the foot of the mainsail was connected to these tracks by sliders.
They could adjust the foot of the mainsail in 2 ways:
1. There was a steel wire from the front to the rear of the boom, tightening this wire kept the sliders more in the middle of the boom, allowing less curvation in the sail,
2. They could twist the whole boom along its length (the front of the boom had a long downward bracket, which was controlled by tackles port and starboard. Twisting the boom made the sail flatter.

It was the Endeavour I who had the shrouds on the side of the hull in 1934, and during her voyage to the US, but I always think they were removed for the races. Not sure on that though.
The Endeavour II did not have those shrouds at any moment.

The J's had indeed limitations on their standing rigging, but there are several pictures where they are plowing through the waves at far more than 15 knots of wind.
I presume most of the dis-mastings started with mal-operation or malfunctions on those runners.
Forget to tighten and lock one in time, and there goes the mast.
As you will see later on, most runners on most boats were hand operated, no winches, just blocks and pulleys .....
I spent a lot of time thinking how they did that for hoists, runners, and the sails, I think I figured out most :) .

Below some videos you might not have seen:
Endeavour I voyage to the US (the shrouds can be clearly seen).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8HZI3uv-g

1934 Cup
]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS8EnfXkMuI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk5LPZIUSqU
]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXfjiTczbig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpdloohspyU

1937 Cup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJWjxRh9MSY
]
Older big class sailing yachts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDd7qKbaGmk




 
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roycv

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2019, 03:08:38 PM »

Hello eric.  Thanks for your reply and especially clearing up the sail attachment system to the boom.  My model has about half the number of brass rings through the sail,  When pushed through the prepared holes in the sails then into the eyes in the boom I had to solder them into a ring.  Very dodgy bearing in mind the sails were of dacron, lots of wet tissue.

There is a very nice video from Nauticalia of Endeavour being built and it details the bow fixings which were too complex for a working model.  Also the launching.
 
My shroud arrangements were taken from a film shown on TV of the return of Endeavour after the races as a filler during 150th. celebrations in the Solent.
 I had recorded it so was able to reproduce it to scale.  Would they have changed it for racing, well maybe but it would have been a big deal to do so.  Also would they have done so after the races were over?  I know it would seem a minor point but when I was constructing the boat I had to decide where to strengthen the deck, or hull sides.

The Hanuman yacht is from 1937 drawings but I suspect with a lot of new technology inserted, maybe the spirit of Endeavour 2 but is it a copy of the lines?
You have to be clear what you are building as a model, I have for instance moved some of the winches so that I could use them for removing an access hatch, (but that is just between us!) I also had to put in a boom vang to stop the main boom rising up.I used modern technology with an extruded aluminium mast which is tightly stressed for strength at the crosstrees.  But there are 76 separate plank 2mm widths across the deck and I have only 5 crew. 

I noted from another film that the crew had floppy hats and the 'officers' peaked caps.  Perhaps if Mr. Sopwith had not been such a tight man with his money the professional crew would have made up the odd minutes and seconds they were beaten by.  But perhaps it was a matter of 'principal'?
So my Endeavour is very much in the spirit of the original, as you will know the current refurbishment is totally different on deck.
So is your model 1 or 2?  or in the spirit of the J Class?
Thanks for the videos and time taken in reply nice to find a fellow interest in the yacht.  I can recommend having a sailing model she goes like a bat out of H**l.
kind regards
 Roy
I have tried copying a photo but my printer has a screen too small for me!

 
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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2019, 12:19:01 AM »


OK, I thought that was clear.
The Amati you built is based upon the Endeavour I.
I finally built a static copy of the II, pretty much to the detail as she was for the race in 1937 I should say, not just "in the spirit" :).

On the present J-class yachts, the Endeavour, the Velsheda, and the Shamrock survived time, and were restored (but with modern equipment) to their present glory.

All others were newly built, with modern equipment, according the original lines plans, and under strict supervision of the J-class association.


Some are "copies" of actual J-class yachts (Ranger, Endeavour II (now called Hanuman), Rainbow, Yankee), others were based upon J-class designs never built (Lionheart, Topaz, Svea, J9).


And yes, would love to see some pics of your model, any thread of the built?
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roycv

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2019, 12:31:11 PM »

Hi Eric, first of all we are all friends here.

 I constructed my Endeavour for the now departed Marine Modelling International magazine, if you want to give me an email address on a PM I can copy you the article  I think it was 2006 so a while back, but not sure about copywrite situation and before the modern phones and digital era.  My pictures are all taken on film. 

A few years later I was pleased to recieve a Bronze award at the Model Engineering exhibition.  The best working model of a yacht of this era I have seen is the Britannia by Sandy Cousins.  I was talking to him at the said exhibition and suggested he change the category he had entered in, I am sure he would have had a Gold if he was in the working boats category, but a lovely man.
However anyone purchasing the Amati kit can also buy my more detailed conversion booklet available on the web site, the modeller needs some experience to get it right.

I was beguiled by your use of the word accurate!  I find most of the world these days far from accurate!  Honest has to be included and be prepared for deception. (VW and engines)

As you can imagine I did do a lot of background work, many calculations and lots of planning and adjustments to get enough displacement without ruining the shape of the hull. It was the longest build I had done.
 There is a build review of the kit in Model Boats magazine, which I had looked forward to reading.  However it turned out to have been written by someone who had seeked me out at a model boat show and later besieged me with emails and many questions on how to do it. 
This person for instance fitted two sail winches because of not understanding how pulleys work.  I reckoned at the time I had written 3000 words of advice to this person.

 I later saw the model sailing and as I thought, it was too low in the water.  I never did any more kit reviews after that.

I have read some articles on the build of Hanuman and they say 'from' design by etc... Not saying it is a copy as construction methods have advanced significantly and no doubt a computer model was trialled and the hull adjusted.  As you say there are some later builds but are they copies?  Are there just an odd cot and a few running spares below deck?  Well No.  The owner has them fitted out to a nice standard of comfort, the deck is modern and different and all this adds weight.  So what has been done?  Do they sail a foot or so lower in the water or have the original lines been adjusted to accomodate the extra tons of equipment and comfort?

It is probably my age, I lost my acceptance of what people say they have done, when I had the job of following up on projects and exercises.when at work.   
The big J's were built by men with too much money and if we go back to T.O.M. Sopwith, he had vast profits from the first world war building aircraft, but refusing to pay his crew a reasonable amount for sailing his yacht in a National competition. A fraction of 1 % of his total expenditure, it says rather a lot about him don't you think?

We are left with a few attracive sailing boats from the past, some discarded at the time.  King Gerge V was so egotistic that he ordered his yacht to be sunk rather than have anyone else sail her!   All the yachts were expensive to run  I read a figure of 7,000 per week for Endeavour, no doubt far more now.  I used to have a subscrition to Classic Boat which was mainly yachts, but as I no longer go sailing except once or twice a year in my son's Beneteau 40 it was no longer hitting the spot.
I take your point about the control of J class association builds and was aware of it.  It is the use of the word copies, I believe the millions of any currency involved with construction will have the owner make sure to eliminate any faults in a previous design and build.  Again what the eye does not see etc.
I do understand that carbon fibre masts are not allowed, well you could not get away with that could you.
I fitted an aluminium mast on my model and the gooseneck was improvised to enable easy dismantling all of which gets marked down when the experts look.  However I doubt if 1 in a thousand, if that, would know those details or even see them.

I had a superb museum class Britannia for sale at our club shop last year, I did not have the room for it and found just one person prepared to take it on, it just needed sails and some TLC.  A league above my Endeavour. 

I avoid the use of accurate and detailed, they are so demanding.  I think of doing my best from the available information.
So I am happy with the spirit of the J's, there is a current model class of J's they look very nice on the water but in the main no attempt at scale deck detail, appearance is all these days.
Keep up the good work there are not many scale model yacht makers left or indeed coming along.

Kind Regards,
Roy














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ericjansen

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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2019, 08:48:57 AM »


Yeah, surely interested, I will send you a PM separately.


I do know what you mean with putting efforts in something, I spent hours to get my Yamaha 40EX (basically a static model by now as she is an disaster as a RC) on her waterlines.
Even as that is only for show while I am sailing my Yamaha Whitbread 60.


On the present J's I am no expert, but I think the lines plans are holy in the process,  don't think anything can be changed there.
Hence the hunt for interesting lines plans.


I think it was the steel Velsheda which had her freeboard increased to coop with the extra weights, but most others are built in Aluminum, and I am pretty sure that compensates for the weight increase of equipment.
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Re: 1:25 Endeavour II - project of 30 years
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2019, 10:22:51 AM »

Hi eric, I agree the Yamaha 40 X is a lovely looking boat but rather expensive, I nearly bought one as well!  You must get a lot of pleasure from your Whitbread 60. 

I reviewed and made a Graupner Libera Ocean, was that a Whitbread Cup boat? This was for Int Marine Modelling.  It is very light and capable of tremendous speed, with a quarter wind she will get up and plane and more than double her speed with a third of the hull out of the water. 

My son drove her like this it was incredible to watch.  I have since sold her on to raise money to buy a pond yacht.

I looked at my last post to you hope there was nothing to offend there, I think the memory of being copied coloured my thoughts. 

Referring to your commments on keeping the lines of the hull, I was in touch with Ron Dean (Deans Marine) and he had permission to make kits from (I think Camper and Nicholson) their boats as long as he did not alter the lines.

He made up a kit for Blue Leopard a favourite long before, and I was hoping to review the model but that never happened.  I did get to examine the model on his stand at an exhibition and he had dramatically increased the width of the keel to get his extra displacement.  One thing I found out was when you see a nice set of lines for a yacht in a magazine, these are unlikely to be the final build drawings, designers like to keep their secrets.

My first attempt at drawing lines and building from a magazine set of lines was actually a self build yacht called Gooseander.  This was a bit ambitious as she had double chines but the model turned out very well, 26 inches loa if I remember and about 45 years ago.


On my take on the Endeavour I decided to fit an additional lot of 3mm lite ply planking and then the kit planking, I never did use the 0.5mm planking!  This increased the displacement from a bare 3kgrms to 5.5 Kgrms.  Sawing out all the bulkheads and thickening the keel gave me the rest of the displacement.
With the sails I cut back the main to come within the hull length and I reduced the quadrilateral fore sail so tht it just overlapped the jib, this is on a loop so that it goes across when tacking.  I did some maths to balance up the sails and it all came together.

With all that sail she goes well in the gentlest of winds.  My article should be with you by now.

Kind regards
 Roy




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