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[zooma]

Anyone that has read the thread about our plans to build a couple of LesRo Stiletto models will no doubt have had a smile about the pair of Sea Commander cabin sides that we found in the "Stiletto parts".

As it happened, I bought a plan for the Sea Commander off of eBay when I first started back into model boat making just prior to lock-down, but forgot that kit plans do not give any drawings for the bulkheads - so I never did anything with them.

Now that we have a pair of cabin sides, it seems a shame to waste them, so I have dug the plans out and made templates for the keel, doublers and breasthook etc, but if anyone has access to the Sea Commander bulkhead shapes it would be very helpful if they could draw around them for us and it would save a lot of time.

Postage costs etc would be gladly refunded.

[zooma]

I cut a keel and the front three pairs of doublers from 4mm plywood today and I am just going back out to cut the rearmost pair of doublers from 1/2' x 1/2" hardwood, so I have made a start on the parts needed to support the pair of cabin sides that Will has given to me 

[zooma]

The keel and doublers are now glued together and I am working out the bulkhead templates and only need the shapes for bulkheads B3 and B5 to be able to complete the hull stage of this project.

[Rich griff]

I too would like outlines of bulkheads etc..


Hope someone can help...

[zooma]

I too would like outlines of bulkheads etc..


Hope someone can help...

Hopefully I wont need any templates as I think my "trail and error" bodging technique (and a bit of luck) may have solved the problem for me.

I had the remans of bulkheads B2 and B4, so I superimposed them on top of each other, worked out a centre line and then drew around them both on the back of a cereal packet.

Then I worked out the mid-points between the two and made this a possible outline for B3 after making a few small mods and measuring the cabin width at this point. Then I cut this out from 4mm ply to make a mock-up bulkhead.

To my surprise when I plugged this onto the keel and the cabin sides it looked OK,  the deck-line flowed OK  and the stringers look like they will align too.

I also had an old delaminated Sea Commander transom shape, so I tried the same technique to produce bulkhead B5 between B4 and the transom (B6) and it sort of worked - but needs some adjustment.  I think the curved sides of the transom threw my measurements out a bit but the deck line still looked OK, so I modified the template using masking tape to hold the extra slice of cereal packet on, and just widened the top edge of the template at the deck edge out by 2mm each side.

Hopefully this will work, but without cutting the mock-ups out from plywood I cannot check this as the cabin sides are under some tension to form the shape and it is not possible to check the fit without inter-locking all of the bulkheads into place on the keel and the cabin sides - so the cereal packet templates need to be exchanged for wood at this stage!

I have some poor quality scrap ply from an old box, and this is plenty good enough for use at this stage, but when I think I have got everything looking OK, I will cut the new B3 and B5 bulkheads and replace the damaged and fuel soaked B2, B4 and the delaminated transom at the same time.

I could not do any of the above without first having the keel assembled as I needed it to plug the bulkhead shapes onto and then to check the interlink and width fit with the cabin sides.

Fortunately, the keel, cabin sides and breasthook information can be taken directly from the kit plans - and no doubt the bulkhead shapes could also be worked-out from the plan too with measurements and a bit of patience.......and they would no doubt be technically superior to my bodging!

[Leaky Bottom]

Hello Zooma
I have a set of templates for a Sea commander, I've attached the file as a PDF


Hope they are some use to you

[zooma]

Hello Zooma
I have a set of templates for a Sea commander, I've attached the file as a PDF


Hope they are some use to you

Thanks Leaky,

I have just come back in from the workshop(shed) - I think I have made my own versions now - but I will compare them with "the real thing" as I could be miles out! 

Stay safe,

Bob.

[Circlip]

PDFs were sent and received by Bob on Sunday 6th for all parts for Commander. It wasn't/hasn't been hacknolegged on this site and probably would have stopped someone else pr*****g about trying to be helpful.   


  Regards  Ian.

[zooma]

PDFs were sent and received by Bob on Sunday 6th for all parts for Commander. It wasn't/hasn't been hacknolegged on this site and probably would have stopped someone else pr*****g about trying to be helpful.   


  Regards  Ian.

Hi Ian,

Due to family illness I have not been able to get out and find a local printer yet to have the downloads you so kindly sent printed out at full size, but I did take a note of the shapes as I worked out my own version so your downloads have been helpful.

It is genuinely interesting to see the small differences between the digital templates you sent and those from Leaky that were sent after I had already made my own missing bulkheads. Yours look to be draughtsman drawn and the ones from Leaky look like they may have been drawn around actual kit parts and so represent what the original kit buyer may have found inside the box.

When I have any drawing for a bulkhead I always make a centre line and then fold the pattern in half and note the differences between the left and right halves.  I always assume that bulkhead templates should be symmetrical, so I always make my own working templates so that they are symmetrical and can be folded on there centre line to reveal no differences between the left and right halves.

This helps to prevent any error being magnified when the part is being cut and also helps to ensure that the hull can be build "square" without any inbuilt twist or distortion.

I mentioned that I already had a plan at the start of this thread - but the digital copy that you sent is nice to keep safely for future reference after I have finished this restoration project and passed the printed plan on to somebody else to make use of.

Many thanks to Circlip and Leaky for their time spent researching and emailing their template drawings to me.  Both will be kept safe and both have already proved to be a valuable reference that I am grateful to keep safe for future use.

Stay safe 

Bob.

[Rich griff]

Thanks for the template images...will have a go making one of them...don't know about electric propulsion but will look at thread for advise.


Thanks, much appreciated.

[zooma]

An 11" M5 prop shaft has been fitted into the keel and once I have the bulkheads and cabin sides fitted I will secure this in position with an epoxy resin, but it looks to be just the right size - unlike the slot between the upper and lower rear halves of the keel that appear to have been drawn (and then cut by myself) to fit a thicker brass tube than the modelboatbits Maxi-Shaft that I am using, so a little filler will be needed here when the time comes!

[tonyH]

How Bob is restoring the Mary Rose.......or is it a Sea Commander?

[zooma]

Thanks Tony for uploading these first Sea Commander pictures for me!

The top pictures shows my best guess at what bulkheads B3 and B5 would look like before I received the digital images from Circlip and Leaky, but I have been able since to compare them and they don look too different, and when pugged in to the keel slots with the other bulkhead it look like they will align with the others OK, but I guessed at the shape of the tops, so this may need a little attention at a later date.

The second picture shows the new bulkhead B1 that I made alongside the new breasthook, but since cutting these I have changed my mind about the shape of the breasthook because I don't see any advantage in wrapping both layers of stringers around such a tight curve when it can be so easily avoided, so I re-drew the breasthook with the same base measure where it joins the first bulkhead B1 but added the width of the two layers of stringer to the outside edge of the breasthook shape, but left a good generous length of recess for the stringers to sit into about an inch past B1.

LesRo used this technique on their Rapier  - and that design hardly had any shape forming around the breasthook as the stringers meet in a point at the bows! A much better idea - but to be fair - the Sea Commander is a much older design and that was just the way it was done when this early Aerokits design was made.

The next 3 pictures just show the new keel and doublers that I cut after they had been fitted.  This new wood should give the boat a decent backbone to work from, and the last picture shows my cereal packet template for the keel after I had drawn around it on some 4mm ply ready for cutting-out.

[Rich griff]

Hi Ian, please what would be the multiplication factor to enlarge the images from A4, which is the only size I can print the images on the sheet, to proper size please.


An ask I know but would save so much time an printer ink in the summer.


Thanks.

[zooma]

Hi Ian, please what would be the multiplication factor to enlarge the images from A4, which is the only size I can print the images on the sheet, to proper size please.

An ask I know but would save so much time an printer ink in the summer.

Thanks.

Hi Rich,

I asked Circlip (Ian) a similar question (by email) and he advised me that the download would come out at full size so I could take it on a USB stick to a printer who would then be able to print it out at full size.

Hope this helps,

Bob.

[Rich griff]

Cool, thanks.
The search continues for a company able to print out in full size locally.


I could scan, Photoshop and play untill a long dimension tallies, then print off at A4 at home.
 £26 for an ink cartridge, non refillable due to it being " chipped" , robbing so and SO's.


Mamon rules.


I could always do it the old fashioned way, pre computers.

[zooma]

Cool, thanks.
The search continues for a company able to print out in full size locally.

I could scan, Photoshop and play untill a long dimension tallies, then print off at A4 at home.
 £26 for an ink cartridge, non refillable due to it being " chipped" , robbing so and SO's.

Mamon rules.

I could always do it the old fashioned way, pre computers.

I think I may have found a local printer so I will find out if he can print from a USB stick. 

As I have never done this before, it will be interesting and probably of more use to me in the future for other new projects as I have been using my usual "bodging" methods to reconstruct this Sea Commander so far and I have probably gone too far to revert back to doing it "properly" this time.

A new build in the future using downloaded and printed templates will be quite a change for me.

[Circlip]

As Bob stated, the PDFs I supplied are all full size so will print out as such but won't allow for the limitations of the printer. ALL printers have fractional printout size differences as demonstrated many years ago when being introduced to the black arts of drawing with AutoCad. Thanks to todays printing technology, we don't have the mass variation of 'Wet' copies although water content of paper can introduce differences. Although 'Tiling' is fine for smaller details, I would advocate, as I did with Bob, bung the PDFs on a stick and take to a commercial printer and ask for 100% printout. For commercial printer, I don't mean Staples etc. but find one who do prints for Architects and Engineers and know how to do it properly. Last time I checked, I was quoted £5 for an A0 sizes sheet which is far cheaper than a model plan supplier who charge more than double for an A3.
  Just to elucidate the laminated top stringer saga, back in the day of original boat kits, the woods of choice were far less in selection than now. Starting at the notched breasthook, the first strip of 1/4 X 1/8 Obeche could be glued and pinned and a smooth curve obtained for the deck line. when that had dried, a second piece if the same, glued and pinned to the same, far easier than trying to fanny about with 1/4 square breaking many in the process. Remember, glues of choice were 'Cascomite' and 'Araldite' and allowed relaxation and think time rather than instant gratification.


  Regards  Ian.


  PS., If you want to have a copy of a full size plan in your possession, I would suggest the same route i.e. let someone with a full size scanner copy it. Just spent many frustrating hours piecing tiles back together from scans done by me on an A4 scanner. Even done at one session, the individual scans have minor variations when it comes to glueing them back together electronically.   

[canabus]

Hi Zooma and Circlip
I save all my plans as Pdf (full size) and my local printer can scan and print what size I require.
Only a 6 KM round trip and I take my latest finished project to show them.
Cost under $10au for a scan and print !!!


Canabus

[zooma]

  Just to elucidate the laminated top stringer saga, back in the day of original boat kits, the woods of choice were far less in selection than now. Starting at the notched breasthook, the first strip of 1/4 X 1/8 Obeche could be glued and pinned and a smooth curve obtained for the deck line. when that had dried, a second piece if the same, glued and pinned to the same, far easier than trying to fanny about with 1/4 square breaking many in the process. Remember, glues of choice were 'Cascomite' and 'Araldite' and allowed relaxation and think time rather than instant gratification.

Regards  Ian.

Remember Aerolite 306 Ian ?

Another classic two part glue of the time - reported to have been used to hold the Mosquito twin engined fighter/bombers wooden construction together  - and used by myself on my first ever r/c model boat, an Aerokits Swordsman........until I ran out and switched to the less expensive water mixed Cascomite to finish the build with.

Yes 24 hour Araldite was THE epoxy to use for things like holding the engine mounts to the hull (and still is as far as I am concerned), and there was also a "thing" in the 1960's when we were racing the boats off-shore for mixing two part expanding foam and pouring it into the voids in the bow of the boat to give buoyancy, additional strength and crash resistance too!

This early version of two part expanding buoyancy foam came in two bottles and was mixed in a beaker until it began to fizz and was then poured into the voids where it expanded to fill every part of it.

Any over-filling would be rewarded with the decks and the hull skins being blown off as the foam expanded to a greater volume than the hull voids could hold, so we soon learnt how much to mix and to add some vent holes for any excess foam to escape through.

I have not seen that type of marine buoyancy foam for years - but it was certainly a lot better than the aerosol type we buy now from builders merchants for the job that we used it for - and if I could find a source of supply. I would probably use it now as it added a lot to the structural integrity of the boat.

As a matter of interest, I still use two laminates of 1/8" x 1/4" for all my stringers (the metric equivalent).  Old habits die hard - but I much prefer to build this way and the laminates are stronger then using a single square profile stringer 

[tonyH]

Old ones, new ones, loved ones and neglected ones

[zooma]

I will try to use as many "original" Sea Commander parts as I can, but the the two front keel doublers K3 are a bit knackered and are easy to make again so these will not be used - but the front deck former DF1 looks OK so that has been pressed into use and super-glued to the breasthook - my first re-cycled part!

The new transom part has been temporarily tacked into position so I can check the alignment of all the parts as I have found that the old bulkheads are a long way away from being symmetrical, so I have re-cut the ones that I have after I have made a symmetrical pattern template to cut them from.

The bottom picture shows the neglected Wave Rider "orange box" stand just before it was given its first coat of colour.

[madwelshman]

Good work Bob.
Glad that you've been able to make use of some of the bits.
At this rate, you'll soon have a completed Sea Commander


Will

[zooma]

Last night I positioned the bulkheads in place on the new keel and offered the old Sea Commander cab sides up to them.

The two structures do fit each other (sort-of), but the mix of a new keel cut from a copy plan, some bulkheads copied from old damaged originals (plus B3 and B5 that I made from what I thought they should look like) and a pair of old warped and twisted cabin sides have not come together without some small problems to resolve.

Today I will epoxy the 11" M5 prop shaft in place and glue everything together and check that it is as "square" as I can make it. 

The inner deck stringers are nice and straight (when a steel straight edge is laid on them) from the keel to the mid cab window position when they start to fall downwards towards the bows, and this is as shown on my copy plans - so with that working-out OK I am thinking that the structure can be fixed as it is and when the glue is dry I can make the many small adjustments and corrections that it needs until I am happy to add the outer deck (gunwale) stringers and chine stringers.

[tonyH]

Ofishul Bobb Pichur