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[KBIO]

Hello!
Recently a friend brought me a Regner’s boiler that he could not light on.
So did I , see the photos.
When I fire up the burner outside the boiler, it’s good.
But as soon as it is inside, there is nothing to do the flame develops above the boiler , with or without the chimney.
I moved the air intake ring of the burner back & forth , from maxi to mini air inlet without success. The supply  gas pressure ranging from 0.10 to 1 b.
sometime the gas explodes but do not fire up. It even blows back the kind of screen which was inside the burner entrance.
What ever I do =  am stuck !
If anyone has an idea, I’m interested.
Note: The vertical boiler is 80 mm in diameter. The ramp burner is inserted into a 21 mm hearth that passes through the base. 5 tubes of 5/6 mm vertical are implanted in line on the focal spot. In my opinion, it seems too narrow to allow the flame to develop at the ramp. There is no secondary air intake to allow normal burning.This is the first of its kind I see. in fact : NO ! Becasue asecond friend came with another Regner boiler , but the same occurred. A bit better , I must admit , but it needs a lot of luck to succeed !
Does anyone have the same and can he tell more? The story is not over !
Regards.

[derekwarner]

KBIO...

I have been following this Regner boiler issue in the French WEB page ........and liked your comment that this example may have been designed by an Accountant 
But surely the best course of action is for the owner to contact Regner, and your French Regnier agent Atlier    very helpful people

Really no different in principle to the recent issue discussed on this WEB site of a boiler from Minature Steam Models

Derek

[KBIO]

Hello !
Yes I am going to develop the same subject here for the information of the future buyers.
My problem so far is that I can off load any photo ! Too heavy ?? I am working on !
Regards.

[Mark T]

Hi KBIO - Just from what you are saying it sounds like the burner is running very rich which may explain the explosions you describe.


Although I cannot see any pictures it sounds like there is no where near enough air getting mixed with the gas in the burner.  Have you tired to contact Nigel at Pendle Steam as he is pretty much the expert in this field.

[KBIO]

Good evening !
Let's try !
It's work !   I shall try to explain my point of view concerning this boiler an this burner. this first set of photos shows what we shall talk about .
This boiler is a Regner and I cannot get in touch with Nigel for a Regner problem.
But ; first remark . The user manual says that we have to adjust the mobile ring to the minimum air entrance ... ? wide open or completely shut , there is no difference.

[KBIO]

If we look at the burner , we notice that there is no secondary air inlet to allow the combustion. The ramp slides in , with no space to let any air to enter , but the primary.
Any burner is done so but this one.
I machined down a ring with air ports to install between the burner flange and the boiler inlet . Nut the burner being excentric , it cannot be adjusted. It would centered = yes , but in this case = NO !

The second and third pic show a boiler  from Howes, & Bayliss (not sire ) that works OK , but stil a bit tricky to light !
I'll tell more tomorrow. Right now , it's good Tim for a good pint !
 

[KBIO]

Good morning !
What I tried , is to turn the burner 180° to have the ports towards the bottom as we do on horizontal ceramic burner.ceramic burners and let more space for the flame to develop .
But .... I cannot slide it inside because of  the fire tubes . Looking at the diameter of the h earth , there is no Romme for the flame it , so no room for secondary air entrance.There is no choice but but combustion done when the mixture meets the air = above the fire tubes.
The second pic shows the other friend's boiler with the same problem !
When the gas reaches the top , there is systematically an explosion pushing back the screen inside the ramp , toward the gas jet .
-" Sacrebleu !" as they say on the other side of the channel !
The only solution is to make a new burner.
Last pic shows an small one I've some years ago and it sounds pretty well. Just need to star slowly to warm up the the installation and and open up tu rise 2 b within 3/4 m.
Next coming ... 

[derekwarner]

KIBIO.........

I did not see from the French thread, but this image here....xxx091753 confirms that this is a fire tube boiler and not a water tube design. What is under that horseshoe brass clip? that is attached over the outer burner spool?
I understand the interest in how to get this boiler to function properly, however again suggest ....   put it back to Regner to resolve
We understand Reginer Senior is now in Steam Clouds in the sky & the Company is in the control of Familky & and a long-term Employee ...however the product must be functional

Derek

[KBIO]

Hello Derek !
You are right , this is a fire tube boiler.
The horse shoe , I think that you are mentioning must be the sliding sleeve to control the air inlet on the ports. The user manual says to let the minimum air entering. But what ever I do , there is no difference .
Asking Regner what they think if I mention this problem ?? The owners did ... then come to me !  You & I probably know the answer  ! -"Learn how to use a burner !" .
Looking at some forum in UE and UK , there is a lot of complaints concerning this problem. I have two boilers dating from Manfred's time , and they warm very well.
You've follow the post on the Letto engine , though ... !
I would take this opportunity to warmly recommend Clevedon if you need a small steam plant . Jerry is known on this side for his expertise , his kindness and he speaks French on top of it . That helps a lot those who are not fluent in English.


I am going on a bit ..
Below is the opening I did on the burner to let some air in (as secondary air intake) . It didn't make no difference.


This link below shows a video of a small burner that I made and that's working good. Let warm up a bit and let it go ! ;-))
https://youtu.be/9fzSZ2s3htw?si=cAmeLndBr2ozoxS2

[KBIO]

And now, the end of the story.
I had several choices for a burner : a ceramic one or a blow one? There is no size for such a small hearth diameter.
I decided to make both and check what fits the best.
The video shows the behavior of both burners :
The ceramic one is smaller than the smaller fro Clevedon = 16 mm diameter entering inside the boiler hearth. The gas/air ratio is a bit poor as I do not have (and I cannot make) a gas jet smaller than .2 mm . That is why the flamme is yellow at the end. This is maximum air I can feed with. For a better ratio , I would probably need a ,15 mm. But at this size , I don't how much heat it can deliver.
Test with the ceramic = not conclusive = do to fit ! Gone to the drawer of miss & f.. up !
The test with the blow one is a lot better as I can reach 2 b within 4 minutes.
https://youtu.be/tcD9A4jtu14?si=GZg6Hz88OkbRnmEy

The second video show the result on teh other friend boiler.
https://youtu.be/0SacT8kOC4w?si=zyLhTzaLNn-Va2X0

Below are the two types of burners and the difference in size with the Clevedon's one! Let me know if someone has the same problem with this type of boiler or if he hasn't get any and teach me what mistake I made and how to operate !
Thank you for reading.
Regards.

[rhavrane]

Bonjour Yves,Little questions, which type of burner does Regner sell with this boiler ? I guess it would be compliant with her, isn't it possible to buy one ?

[KBIO]

Hello !
The burner sold with this boiler is shown in the first pic (Bruleur rampe)
I forgot to show the top of the boiler. You will understand that with no space for the flamme in the bottom hearth and those five little pipes coming up, the burning can only be on top when the mixture meets air !
Goopd enough to cook a hot dog ... IF YOU LIKE IT RAW !
Regards.

[rhavrane]

Bonjour Yves,Does your steam boiler belong to the "Midi" plant ? If so, you are not lucky because my friends  Julien and Robert had no issue with we tested them :
https://youtu.be/PbpSy9LZnrU

https://youtu.be/hQBQGIKPwG8

[KBIO]

Hello !
Yes , I know this boiler .  Easy Line = fire tubes. Some of us have one and they also are disappointed with the difficulty to fire it up.
Rhavrane , can you make us a video of one of your friend firing up this boiler ? This will help ! Thanks !
If someone have some information , trick or anything to teach us how to light it properly , it would help and I would appreciate !
 

[KNO3]

I think the problem with the original burner of this boiler might the the gas jet. Perhaps too large and gives a mixture too rich for the available air holes. Have you tried a different gas jet?

[KBIO]

Olä !
The gas jet is a +/- 25/100 (calibrated with a steel mandolin string)
I did try a bigger size: 30/100 & 40/100 without result . With a larger jet, there is just a larger flow , poor in oxygen , but the flame still develops above the boiler.
And it makes sense.
I attach the schematic diagram of the basic  gas burner. We see a primary air inlet that mixes with the gas. The mixture ignites when it is in contact with the secondary air on the top. As on all gas, or other oil burner. This boiler is simply not well thought out. This boiler is in fact a big burner that ignites at the exit of the smoke tubes. (as on the drawing).
When the boiler is fired up and the flamme is in the bottom , it gets just enough air (primary) to generate some heat which is suffisent for this small size boiler but with a poor combustion.
I maybe wrong and desperately trying  to be smart ,  I am opened to all explanations .
Cheers !

[Geoff]

What an interesting problem. I would agree with the original post with the original burner there is not enough space above the burner and the bottom of the pressure vessel for the flame to develop. This causes unburned gas to fill the boiler and detonate and/or burn in the funnel. When you switched to a blow lamp burner it seemed to work better as there is space for the flame to develop and space for secondary air, however the flame is horizontal and not vertical which is what this boiler is designed for.


My bet would be that the hole for the burner is just too high. If you intend to keep the boiler I would cut a tunnel shape "D" inverted down to the base plate. This should allow you to position the original burner lower down and facilitate the introduction of secondary air in a controlled way.


This will not affect the boiler as its not part of the pressure vessel and a blanking plate can be fitted if there is too much secondary air.


Having said all this it should work out of the box so there is clearly a problem somewhere along the way. From your post this does not seem to be an isolated issue.


I wish you good fortune with this.


Cheers


Geoff