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[DBS88]

Having visited some different Clubs with steam boats, different interpretations of the boiler testing rules appear to be in use, I do not believe for a minute what has been asked has been unsafe, its just inconsistent in terms of the tests and the records of the tests, so wondered what the rules actually require. I have read The Boiler Test Code 2018 Vol 2 Boilers Under 3 Bar Litres as well as the supporting document issued in February 2019 - Boiler Test Code 2018 - Vol 2 Boilers Under 3 Bar Litres - Frequently Asked Questions.


Example 1 for discussion and clarification. (This is a common example that occurs when someone buys a secondhand steamboat and wishes to use it).
A commercially constructed boiler with its original test certificate, the boiler has been used in the past. Its Copper, silver soldered with gunmetal bushes, constructed in 2011, test pressure 120 psi, working pressure 60 psi, capacity measured as 0.6 Litres. The boiler is in sound condition, unmodified and has not been repaired. To bring this boiler back into use today, what do the rules actually require to be done and by who and what records need to be made and kept?
For instance, do the rules allow the owner to self certify with just a safety valve check under steam?

[Colin Bishop]

There are a couple of Features on the Model Boats website written by Richard Simpson last year which you may find worth reading,

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/119509/the-bar-litre-rule/

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/119499/steam-boiler-testing-overview/

Colin

[DBS88]

Colin, thank you, both articles are useful and relevant,  they confirm that the Example 1 boiler operated at 4 Bar (60psi) would be 0.6 x 4 = 2.4 Bar Litres so Vol 2 for Boilers under 3 Bar Litre (Orange Book) is the correct code.


What we now need to clarify is when the owner of Example 1 Boiler turns up at a Club to use their newly purchased steamboat or to sail as a visitor, according to the Orange Book and the associated Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ);
A) what tests must be carried out?
B) by who? (Boiler Tester, Owner) and
c) what paper work is actually required - (it would be nice to see examples that are actually in use)?


Do the rules allow the owner to self certify with just a safety valve check under steam?

[Colin Bishop]

I'm no steam expert but I have alerted Richard to your query.

Colin

[Pat-K]

I have just brought a nice steam boat model and was wondering the same I have checked it and the safety value works but how strict are clubs on certification

[rhavrane]

Bonjour,
Model steamers, come in France 
 The rules are quite simple, there are no rules under 25 liters, no one would ask you any document during any event.

"My" manufacturer JMC tests his boilers at 10 Bar (+/-150 PSI) because it is his choice to validate his worka and we commonly operate at 2-4 Bar (30-60 PSI).
For a race, he pushes one of his copper boilers 1 mm thick and a slightly rounded shape by pressure up to 17 Bar ( 250 PSI), without water level hopefully!

The few scale 1 launches have boilers with a maximum capacity of 24.99 litres and pumps because otherwise, you need an official annual certificate of  a governement organism like APAVE for example.

[Bunkerbarge]

The key to everything is to first determine whether the boiler is  either between 3bar-litres and 1100bar-litres, in which case it is covered by Volume 1 of the Boiler Test Code, or whether it is below 3bar-litres, in which case it is covered by Volume 2.


The bar-litre number is determined by multiplying the total internal volume, quoted in litres, by the working pressure, quoted in bar.  For the boiler you mention in the example:



The total internal volume is 600ml so the total internal volume we use in the calculation is 0.6.  So for a 4bar WP boiler with a total internal volume of 600ml the bar-litre number is 2.4


The classification of the boiler will determine the testing regime that must be followed.  Very simplified, below 3bar-litres requires an initial hydraulic pressure test, at 2 x WP, and then subsequent annual steam tests.  3bar-litres to 1100bar-litres requires an initial hydraulic pressure test, at 2 x WP, and subsequent annual steam tests plus subsequent four yearly hydraulic pressure tests at 1.5 x WP. 


All testing is done by a Boiler Inspector, which may require witnessing if the inspector has not been granted permission by his particular association to test without a witness.


If you are presenting a boiler for any testing, previous paperwork will be required to prove previous testing.  i.e. for an annual steam test of a below 3bar-litre boiler, proof would need to be provided of the initial hydraulic pressure test.  This could be either a manufacturer's test certificate or it could be a test done by a Boiler Inspector on the relevant paperwork for any of the affiliated associations.  For a 3bar-litre to 1100bar-litre boiler proof of all four yearly hydraulic pressure tests would be required to perform a steam test.


Very simply there is no leeway for any club to 'interpret' the rules any differently.  The requirements are very clearly laid down in the Boiler Test Code for all to read and understand.  Any club not following the requirements of the code would be running the risk of finding themselves not covered by their insurance in the event of any mishap.  It is easiest to think of it like driving a vehicle.  Anyone can choose to operate a boiler without any testing being done, just as anyone can drive a car without insurance.  If you are in a public place you are A) On your own in the case of any mishap and B) Potentially liable to be prosecuted by the owner of the public place.  As an example my own Boat Club is required to have insurance in place by the council to cover us for £10 million of liability.  All steam models must be operated according to the test code for this insurance to be valid.  If I attended another club and discovered that they were not operating according to the boiler test code then I would not wish to remain there as it would clearly indicate a lack of understanding of what is required.


Just to make it easier, since the Boiler Test Code 2018 came into effect the Model Power Boat Association is also included in the list of affiliated societies and associations so any club operating under MPBA rules also complies with the same rules.


The rules very clearly state that no owner can test his own models.  This applies to Boiler Inspectors as much as anyone else.  What I would say though is that you do a test at home to prove everything is working as it should before presenting it to an inspector.

[DBS88]

Thank you for replying so promptly. Please walk through this with me to check interpretation and understanding - We have just confirmed that for a manufactured boiler under 3 Bar Litre following the manufacturer's initial test at 2 times working pressure no further hydraulic testing is required (Unless repairs or modified) so we move to Section 13 of Vol 2 Orange Book which covers the Safety checks and Steam tests. Then 13.2 says


13.2 Subsequent annual safety and steam tests performed by the owner/user, witnessed and recorded.13.2.1 The safety inspection of a boiler should be performed at intervals no greater than 14 months, or when the boiler is next steamed if greater than that time interval since previous steaming. 13.2.2 Steps 13.1.1 through 13.1.6 should all be performed and the outcome documented on the record of Annual Inspection and Steam Test, Subsequent annual safety and steam tests performed by the owner/user, witnessed and recorded"


Then referring to the FAQ's that support the 2018 Orange Book the following Question and Answer is provided.

Question Section 13.2 seems to say that the annual safety and steam test can be carried out by owner and recorded. Is this right? Where is it recorded?
Answer Yes – the owner can do his own safety check and steam test. The Test Code expects that the items listed in 16.4 are captured on the sister document to this code document name ‘Pressure Vessel Certificate 2018’.


In addition from the FAQ supporting the 2018 Orange book lets look at the following Question and Answer

Question Does “not retrospective” mean that a boiler built before 1st May 2018 that does not have evidence of a 2xPw hydraulic test can continue to be used without subjecting it to a hydraulic test provided the annual safety checks and steam tests are carried out in accordance with this code?
Answer Yes.


This appears to suggest that the Copper Boiler Example 1, constructed in 2011, can be used without hydraulic testing and the owner can do his own safety and steam test - the rationale behind this seems to be that below 3 Bar Litre the risk has been assessed as very low.


The reason for asking and using example 1 is to try and understand -  I may have got this very wrong - the way the rules and supporting FAQ's are written makes it challenging - compliance with the current rules is in everyones interest and thats all thats wanted. So, can an Owner do their own safety and steam test? If so how should this be documented?

[Bunkerbarge]

I will discus with my own association to try to clarify.

[DBS88]

Thank you Bunkerbarge for taking the time to look into this, it is both helpful and appreciated.


Here is another scenario for discussion and clarification; most of the scenario applies to boilers (under 3 Bar Litre) currently being bought and sold secondhand and are potentially being presented to Club Boiler Testers.


Boiler Under 3 Bar Litre Example 2
A boiler tester is ask to test a boiler, the tester recognises the boiler as a Cheddar Proteus Boiler. Cheddar have not made boilers since about 2005, the boiler therefore predates the current 2018 Orange Book Rules. The boiler is in good clean condition, obviously little used, with no repairs or damage, however no paperwork is presented with the boiler. The specification for the boiler is easily found with an internet search, Max Working Pressure 6 Bar and a capacity of 0.6 Litres, so potentially 3.6 Bar Litre and testing under Vol 1 of the 2018 Boiler Test Code.


If the Boiler safety valve is set to operate at 4.9 Bar this brings the Bar Litres to 4.9 x 0.6 = 2.94 Bar Litres.
Querries for confirmation
1) Does the Boiler (Example 2) set at 4.9 Bar now fall under The Boiler Test Code 2018 Vol 2 Boilers Under 3 Bar Litres?
2) Clearly the Boiler (Example 2) predates 2018 and if being operated under 3 Bar litre, - no further hydraulic test required?
3) The Boiler (Example 2) is now purchased by the Boiler Tester so the tester now owns the boiler. The Boiler Example 2 is a manufactured boiler and will have been hydraulically tested by the manufacturer - in other words the boiler (Example 2) has previously been tested by another boiler tester. Can the owner of the Boiler Example 2 (in this case, a boiler tester) undertake and record his own safety and steam tests?

[DBS88]

To help the conversation along here are links to the Frequently Ask Questions and Answers for the Orange Book Vol 2. Clearly there is misunderstanding about what code says and what people believe it says.


The two Examples posted are real situations, how should they be tested and recorded to comply with the rules?


Here are links to the Boiler Test Code and also the FAQ's that support it.
https://bglr.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/BTC2018V2-FAQ-February-2019-1.pdf
https://bglr.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/testCode2018_volume2.pdf

[DBS88]

To declare my background, I am not a boiler tester and I would like to understand the rules (I do try to understand rules by looking at real life examples to see what they actually mean) and be sure that I operate within them. I also belong to three Clubs, in one the Boiler Testers test all copper boilers hydraulically every four years (below 3 bar litre and over 3 Bar litre). The same Boiler Testers also perform the annual safety check and steam test. In the second club, no hydraulic testing for under 3 Bar Litre and owners performing their own steam tests. The third would like to have Boiler Testers but has not yet set up to run steam boats. When I visit other Clubs as a guest I have been ask for the current paper work or ask to demonstrate the safety valve operating.


From the Boiler Testing Rules the answer to Example 1 appears to be:
A commercially constructed boiler with its original test certificate, the boiler has been used in the past. Its Copper, silver soldered with gunmetal bushes, constructed in 2011, test pressure 120 psi, working pressure 60 psi, capacity measured as 0.6 Litres. The boiler is in sound condition, unmodified and has not been repaired.


Answer for Verification - No further hydraulic testing is required (because the boiler is under 3 Bar Litre), all that is required is the Annual Safety and Steam Tests carried out by the owner/operator. (Here I am unclear about how this would be done and recorded in the real world?)


If this is the case - it will apply to the majority of model steam boats bought and sold and in use across the Country

[Bunkerbarge]

As I said above I have sent a message to my own particular society and I am waiting for a reply.

[DBS88]

Bunkerbarge, many thanks, that is most helpful. I now know a few Boiler testers and I am sure clarity on the situation will be appreciated, the boiler testers really are the unsung heroes of clubs, putting in many hours helping and advising others, I for one appreciate the help I have received from them.


I do also have some boilers that definitely fall within Vol 1, Boilers over 3 Bar Litre and have found information that may be helpful from the FAQ document that supports Vol 1 Boilers over 3 bar litre. Whilst the question is about steel boilers, the intent of the rules is made clear for the start date of testing and re-testing, so should be equally applicable to copper boilers, it also confirms the rules are not intended to be retrospective, here is the Question and Answer



Question
Section 9.2 states that for steel boilers the cladding be removed at 7 year intervals, which
may be extended to 10 years at the discretion of the inspector. When does the 7 year
period start?
Answer
As the Test Code is not retrospective the clock starts ticking for the 7/10 year period 1st
May 2018 for boilers currently in service and the date of the first 1.5xPw hydraulic test for
boilers put in to service after 1st May 2018.

[Bunkerbarge]

Ok I will try to explain this as best I can.


The current version of the BTC, 2018, was basically put together by the NMG, a model railway group, with a particular slant on their own requirements.  Personally I thought the Green Book, the previous BTC, was a much better document.  Anyway many of this group consider that the testing of small boilers, i.e. below 3 bar-litres should be done by owner/operators.  Apparently their insurance policy includes a get out clause that allows for such boilers to be insured whether tested or not.   We must bear in mind here that such boilers would therefore not have their pressure gauges calibrated against a certified gauge and nothing would be recorded on official certification as this can only be held by the Boiler Inspectors.


The advice therefore from the Federation of Model Engineering Societies is that individual clubs should write in their own constitutions, safety policies or by-laws that all boilers shall be tested by a club appointed inspector, using calibrated equipment, with the pressure gauge on the model checked and the safety valve set to that gauge with all testing recorded on their supplied certification books.


Ultimately this is driven by insurance companies who provide us with third party insurance.  If there is any wish from a club to try to avoid following a testing system for boilers below 3 bar litres I would strongly recommend that the club in question check with their individual insurers to check that this would be acceptable for insurance to remain in place.  In the case of my own club we follow the processes outlined within the current BTC while still insisting that all boilers are tested by the boiler inspector and recorded in the associated certification scheme published by the associated societies.  If anyone was to bring a model to our club that had not been tested by a boiler inspector and did not have the correct certification in place we would not allow it to operate as a member of the club on our water.  If anyone wished to quote paragraph 13.2 and its associated Q&A paragraph as justification they would simply be told that club policy does not allow for owner/operator testing.


While there may be some anomalies in the latest version of the BTC, which may, according to the letter of the rules allow us to implement a less stringent approach to boiler testing in certain circumstances, I believe there is also a case for adopting a best practise approach.  As I mentioned above I do not even test my own models as I believe this does not set a good example.


I appreciate the current BTC is less than clear in some areas so it is up to the clubs, the operators and the boiler inspectors to ensure that common sense and best practise is implemented. 


Probably not as clear as some might have been hoping for but I can only try my best to implement a set of rules that have one or two inconsistencies.

[DBS88]

Bunkerbarge, thank you for taking the time to research this and to reply, it is appreciated. To further the discussion and help improve our collective understanding it would also be nice to hear from other boiler testers and clubs who follow and contribute to this forum.


Let's remind ourselves of the original question - which is what does the Orange Book, Vol 2 2018 Boiler Testing Rules actually say needs to be done and by whom? The question is not about agreeing with the rules or enhancing the rules, the question is ask to clarify what the rules actually say?
To assess what the rules actually say, bringing boiler example 1 back into use was used - this example represents the majority of boilers in use in model boats.
What has our discussion established?
a) The Orange Book rules say no further hydraulic testing of example 1 boiler is required.
b) The Orange Book Rules allow annual safety and steam tests for boiler example 1 to be carried out by the owner of the boiler.
c) The Orange Book Rules rules, as written, are being applied inconsistently, with some Clubs requiring additional hydraulic testing and or insisting that safety and annual tests are carried out by Boiler Inspectors (NB - This includes a Club I belong to).


Reading wider, Model Boats Magazine from November 2023 also provides the following advice reproduced below, the main two points from the article are
1) "if your club wishes to operate steam models, your club’s insurer will usually require your club to adhere to the ‘Orange Book’ set of rules"
2) " These rules have been accepted by the Health and Safety Executive, most of the big insurance providers and most modelling organisations and societies."


Prior to January 1st 2006 all relevant bodies concerned with model boat steam plants such as insurance companies, clubs, societies, local councils and even the Health and Safety Executive had their own sets of rules.  This was obviously very difficult to understand and comply with and put a lot of people off this area of the hobby completely.  Another side effect of this was that there were many modelers who simply ignored the rules in the knowledge that no-one else knew what was going on either and so no one could really hold them accountable.  Consequently, as of the 1st January 2006 these organizations all got their heads together and published a set of rules and regulations for the safe construction and operation of model steam plant.  These rules have been accepted by the Health and Safety Executive, most of the big insurance providers and most modeling organizations and societies and make it now far easier for everyone to know just what the rules are and therefore who is not complying with them.  These rules were compiled into a single book, in the past being known as the ‘Blue Book’ and then the ‘Green Book’, however the current version being the ‘Orange Book’ which was accepted and adopted by all organisations concerned.  Consequently, if your club wishes to operate steam models, your club’s insurer will usually require your club to adhere to the ‘Orange Book’ set of rules.  The current set of rules, the ‘Orange Book’ is split into three volumes. Volume 3 covers gas tanks under 250 ml and Volumes 1 and 2 cover two different size ranges of boilers.  This size is determined by the 3 bar-litre rule thereby classifying boilers as either Boilers 3 bar-litres to 1100 bar-litres, covered by the rules in Volume 1 or Boilers under 3 bar-litres, covered by the rules in Volume 2.  The majority of boilers found in model boats are covered by the rules in Volume 2.


So where does all this leave us?


 

[Bunkerbarge]

c) The Orange Book Rules rules, as written, are being applied inconsistently, with some Clubs requiring additional hydraulic testing and or insisting that safety and annual tests are carried out by Boiler Inspectors (NB - This includes a Club I belong to).

I don't believe they are being applied inconsistently.  We have to accept that all clubs and many other organisations including local councils are perfectly entitled to add their own stipulations on top of the requirements in the  current BTC.


Quite what this current flood of arguments is intending to achieve I'm not sure but I can't help but feel that it has a lot less to do with clarification and a lot more to do with a very small number of individuals trying to force clubs into accepting that we should be allowed to test our own small boilers simply because the current BTC says we can.  I have obviously wasted a considerable amount of time with this because everything I have said so far is being conveniently ignored for the sake of returning to the same worn out issue that the BTC say we can therefore we should be able to.


I will not be wasting any more time.

[Circlip]

Rules are written for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.


 If the club where you want to sail have specified THEIR interpretation of the bible, so be it. If you want to use YOUR interpretation, either don't sail OR make sure your own personal insurance is vastly superior to theirs. Even then you could quite easily get a S*d off.


  Regards  Ian.

[DBS88]

Apologies, I appear to have unwittingly strayed into a minefield and reading between the lines it seems Bunkerbarge may have had previous communications on this topic, which may not have been supportive or respectful of his knowledge and experience.


For the record, I am not aware of previous communications nor am I aware of or party to any attempts to force clubs to operate in a particular way.


My enquiry is a genuine attempt to understand; the boiler used as example 1, is the boiler in being worked on and installed in a topic on this forum - Perseverance (IMARA) - Steam Powered. https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,70339.msg763137.html#msg763137


The situation described about 3 Clubs is also genuine, at one Club this model will not need a hydraulic test and will only need the safety and steam tests, at another it will need to undergo four yearly hydraulic testing and annual safety and steam tests carried out by Club Boiler testers. The third Club would like to run steam boats, but as we have confirmed in these discussions there does not seem to be a clear cut answer as to what is needed to be done.


The discussion is to clarify the rules, this has largely been achieved, which is positive and contributes to the wider understanding. Re the observation that if owners self certify, the Boiler Pressure Gauges would not be calibrated against a certified gauge, the Orange Book tells us
13.2.2.1 When the safety valve releases, if the pressure gauge indicates the planned Working Pressure then there shall be no requirement to test the gauge against a gauge of known accuracy.
13.2.2.2 When the safety valve releases, if the pressure gauge does not indicate the planned Working Pressure then the gauge should be tested for accuracy against a gauge of known accuracy, or the gauge replaced with one which has been so tested.

With regard to 13.2.2.1 it seems the safety valve and pressure gauge would have been subject to an initial steam test and verified as correct at that time, lets say set at 45psi, so for subsequent steam tests if that pressure gauge does not read 45 when the safety valve operates, either the safety valve or the gauge have altered and require investigation - it seems extremely unlikely that both the safety valve and the gauge would change in the same way by the same amount so that the safety valve operated with the gauge still reading 45psi - This seems pragmatic and reasonable.


The next step is to understand is how in the real world the Orange Book rules are put into practice? It seems some Clubs use Boiler Inspectors to carry out annual safety checks and steam tests which both ensures the tests are done and the Club has a record  - this has an obvious appeal, and makes a good deal of sense.


It would therefore be helpful to see the actual advice received from the Federation of Model Engineering Societies advising how clubs should write in their own constitutions, safety policies or by-laws.


In the same way it would also help to see insurance companies requirements, hopefully examples of which can be shared here. It seems some Clubs have an All Risks Policy which says next to nothing other than all risks are covered, and further discussion suggests that in the event of a problem the Insurance Company would look to see that the current rules had been complied with - this appears to mean the Orange Book plus any additional rules a Club may have included in their own rules and regulations?


Hopefully Bunkerbarge will feel comfortable to continue to share his knowledge and experience and others will also join in the conversation to contribute and share experiences, with the aim of improving all of of our understandings, by spreading good ideas that promote safe use of our steam models

[SailorGreg]

Perhaps I could ask for some clarification on the steam testing process.  When I owned a steam launch, I sought advice on steam testing.  I was told (by a boiler tester) that I must present the boiler detached from the steam plant and with all cladding removed, so that the state of the boiler and fittings could be examined.  I had spent some time putting the cladding on and making it look pretty, so I was reluctant to rip it all off.  Was my adviser correct, or could I have presented the steam plant intact for testing?
Greg

[Bunkerbarge]

Greg, I've sent you a PM