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[DBS88]

For Hemmen's Steam Plants, some were supplied with poker style burners. Here are photos of two different Hemmens Poker Burners. They both use No 5 gas jets. Have you any experience or advice about using these burners? I note that some people have replaced the twin pokers with a single ceramic burner, if so, information about why and how this was done, together with the results would be appreciated. Hemmens was a good engineer, so, these burners must have worked and worked well, so you experience with them is valuable.

[pipercub1772]

HI I have had a few hemmens boilers and used the poker burners with limited success obviously depending on what steam engine you're running ,The main problem i encountered with them although superbly manufactured for me they always seem to struggle maintaining steam pressure and in the end i have resorted to fitting a ceramic burner , Hemmens did this with his later models i found its difficult to remove the item that the poker burners fit into although i believe it is only a pressed fit It needs to be done to fit a standard ceramic burner ,Incidentally the ones from clevedon steam are exelent,The way i did it was to put a saw cut at 45 % across the top just through the fitting and then insert a screwdriver in the saw cut and twist to loosen it , Hope this helps it will be interesting to hear other peoples experience with the poker burners
regards Allan.

[Captin Kipper]

Hi  I had a problem with the poker burners.  They were very efficient but howled like a Banshee. I emailed them and they recommended they be arranged that the flame holes were at 45 degrees in the flue I did this and no problems since That was about five years ago

[KNO3]

How exactly is this 45 degree arrangement?

[pipercub1772]

Hi lets assume its a 2 burner set up as in the pictures the one on the left as it goes in , the burner holes in the burner should be from 1/4 to to vertical , the one on the right the holes should point from the vertical to 1/4 past  basically the flames will be playing on the top sides and the top of the boiler ,hope this explains ,

[DBS88]

Thank you for the feedback received so far.
The first time I ran these burners I noticed several things, they produced a lot of carbon monoxide, the exhaust smelled really bad and could be lit. The boiler took a long time to come upto pressure and the tank experienced a high degree of freezing.
I have since cleaned the gas jets, and cleaned the pokers which has improved the burning performance considerably, however would still like to hear more about using these poker burners or replacing them.
Here is a photo of the diagram for setting up the burners.

[pipercub1772]

how did you clean the jets btw ,the only way i could was to either boil them not very good results with that ,my best was to put the air line on with good psi and blow from the front of the jet,

[1967Brutus]

how did you clean the jets btw ,the only way i could was to either boil them not very good results with that ,my best was to put the air line on with good psi and blow from the front of the jet,

Go to a shop where they sell hearing aids and such. (I don't know how that branche is called in English).
They usually have tiny U-son cleaners specifically intended to clean the internals of those earpieces, and are relatively extremely powerful because those pressure waves need to penetrate very tiny channels and orifices.
These work brilliantly for carburettor parts, jets, and also these gas-jets.

I bought one a long time ago and I am surprised how often I have use for it.

[KBIO]

Today , I made a test on this launch as it is for sale.i switched the burners on by cracking up the gas valve until the furnace warms up a bit. I progressively open until a fair noice was heard from the boiler. It came up to 40 psi within 5/7 min. Opening on the motor : pressure dropped to 20 psi. Machine running quite fast and easy.Slowed down rpm when only steam came out , until the pressure built up again. Note that the RPM probably a bit higher than what it would be sailing.Running for 10 min with a pressure stabilized at 35/40 psi. Everything is fine. The gas tank didn't freeze as the supply was from the gas can: 22°C in the room.Honestly , I cannot complain about this plant and about the burners.My main concern would rather be on the boiler water pump , the engine is a bit greedy to be fairly performing . But a good practice should remove the doubt if any. I can't remember the orientation of the burners inside the furnace but no unpleasant odor .
For those who want to unplug or clean the jet itself , you can buy different sizes mandolin string in any music shop and pass through the jet.
The ultrasonic bath will clean up the coal or other debris inside the ramps . good idea.

[pipercub1772]

What engine is in that and can you put a picture of it ,

[KBIO]

 
MAX Hemmens II .
All is fine !

[1967Brutus]

The ultrasonic bath will clean up the coal or other debris inside the ramps . good idea.

Mind you, a generic U-son bath like those for glasses or larger, will NOT properly clean the inside of the jet (or if it does, you're lucky and the dirt is soft/nopt stubborn).
You need the tiny ones for hearing aid otoplastics. Then no need for Mandolin string (which CAN damage the orifice as those strings are Steel and most jets are Brass...)

[DBS88]

Thank you for performing the test run, that is encouraging, I can now compare your results with mine when I next run the boiler.
I cleaned the jets with fuse wire and an airline. I cleaned the pokers with soft wire wool, I de burred the slots internally with a reamer and externally made sure the slots themselves were clean with a scalpel.
The photo shows the difference between the pokers burning patterns, furthest away has been cleaned, nearest poker uncleaned.

[KBIO]

Good job!    It works better when it is clean !
For this type of ramp, yes, I would have cleaned it in an ultrasonic bath because it's steel.
But for a brass burner, I would have soaked it in acid or vinegar for a few hours. I admit that even when dirty, it doesn't interfere with combustion.
Cleaning ceramic burners use also different methods . Different burners , different cleaning methods !
The jet ; it can be clogged by mineral, metallic, or even organic debris. In this case, personally, but everyone does as  he wants ,  I unclog it with compressed air or if not enough with my mandolin or guitar string. There are different sizes that correspond to the diameter of the jet. I even sometime use he right size drill as I used to make my own burners.
Of course, you mustn't go at it like a brute, and generally everything returns to normal without damage.
Imagine the journey of this little piece of debris that is causing the problem! It may have come from the bottom of the earth, rubbing the walls of the casings , pipe lines and other tanks it has passed through. It ends up in the gas can despite all the filters that are supposed to stop it and when you turn the gas can over ... Hello ! Here it comes in your gas tank . But it may also simply come from the gas tank you made (or buy) off the line coming out of it; it's just a piece of debris that has come loose.
It could also be a tiny insect stuck in the transfer line or a piece of tissue!
Nothing will spare you from problems.
On the other hand, steaming without any problems is particularly boring!

[1967Brutus]

Thank you for performing the test run, that is encouraging, I can now compare your results with mine when I next run the boiler.
I cleaned the jets with fuse wire and an airline. I cleaned the pokers with soft wire wool, I de burred the slots internally with a reamer and externally made sure the slots themselves were clean with a scalpel.
The photo shows the difference between the pokers burning patterns, furthest away has been cleaned, nearest poker uncleaned.

That is quite a difference...

[Mege66]

Hi David My experience with the Hemmens V4 steam plant is that the poker burners work. However, I found a ceramic burner more efficient and it also takes less space because of the angled design (the gas line is not attached in line). The heating capacity of the ceramic burner is also man enough to keep up the pressure. The pump is well capable of maintaining the water level. All tested on land as I have not yet installed it in a nice steam launch model..   

[DBS88]

Mege66 thank you for the info about the burner it is appreciated.

[KBIO]

Hello !
The problem with those Hemmens burners is that there is no secondary air entrance , so the flare has a tendency to look for some air above the chimney.
This is why a ceramic burner will work fine , but it is necessary to modify the stove inlet by cutting the plate that holds the two burners. I did other dare to do it.
They are very smart plants though !
 

[DBS88]

Thank you for the advice and support about the burners, before considering making a change, I will continue to use the pokers to get familliar with their use until I am confident I have them working as effectively as possible.

[Mege66]

Hello KBIO / DBS88

I interpret KBIO's post to mean that the burner bracket must be cut off / destroyed for removal. However, this is not necessary. At least with my Hemmens V4 steam plant, I was able to remove this part with gentle force.

To do this, you first have to remove the two burners of course. Then, using a simple tool (a piece of wood with two dowels pressed into it at the distance between the two burners, or use a pliers with round jaws like circlip pliers), the bracket can be slowly loosened by turning it back and forth. Moderately heating the burner bracket with a gas burner helps to reduce the slight pressure by expanding the bracket.

The whole thing sounds more difficult than it is and can be accomplished in a few minutes without causing any damage.
I wish to add that I follow your posts with great interest, especially the oil pump cleaning. It is this pump together with the V arrangement of the four cylinders that makes this steam plant so unique and desirable.

Best regards, Mege