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[perkasa]

Following my recent post and that of 2772E regarding damage to our boats. Non boating people seem to often ask the question what does the boat cost? Some say send me the bill. If they did they would be in shock.

I am buildind a new RTTL. So far the cost is just over ?400.00 and I have not started on the superstructure yet. As an exercise I decided to keep a record of the amount of time I work on it each night. I am costing it at a rate of ?5.40 per hour, the national minimum rate not the rate I earn at work. I am also costing the materials. At the end of the day I will then be able to answer the question I posted.

Recently White Ensign stated one of his boats took 3500 hours to build. At the rate I am calculating at, his model in time alone is worth  ?18900. Then there is materials. It would surely be impossible to insure a model for such an amount and if you could the preimuim would be out of this world.

Looking at it this way our models are priceless. Has anyone else done a simular exercise as I am doing? If so I would like to hear their comments.

[Colin Bishop]

Looking at it another way, your model is worth what it would fetch on the open market - obviously a good deal less! Also, calculating the time spent on it doesn't take account of the quality which would also affect the value. If a model is damaged then it wouldn't be unreasonable to cost the time taken to repair it but if it is a total write off (or sunk!) then i imagine it would be market value. I suppose it's a bit analogous to car repairs - once the cost of repairs exceeds the market value of the car the insurance company will write it off at market value.

[perkasa]

Your comments are interesting.  I may well answer at a later date. Just going for a pint or 3 now.

Pete

[dougal99]

Hi there,

I agree with Colin. Costing the time in addition to the materials will produce a figure that is the boat's worth to you. How do you cost your own time? After all it's supposed to be a leisure activity. My hourly rate when I was working was vastly in excess of the minimum wage, and I worked with consultants (spit) whose hourly rate was astronomical. Further, how long is reasonable? Watching very experienced modellers work, they can do things in minutes that would take me nearly an hour. (Maybe if I was better organised ???)

When people ask how much it costs I think they usually mean materials. The more astute will ask how long it takes and usually wince at the answer.

I have done the timng exercise on some of my boats and wonder at how long it takes me to achieve very little.

The answer to how much a repair costs is clearly not simple and probably not palatable. It has just cost me ?125 when my son caused a minor scratch to a fellow pupils car. I could have done the repair for <?20 but I wouldn't have charged myself for the time.

Maybe, as they say, life aint fair.

Cheers

Doug

[perkasa]

Hi Colin / Doug,

I can see your points of view.  I was only curious as to the value, as people have in other threads been talking about insurance. I agree the value of the boat is in the material , and thats it. I built a hovercraft recently and a person asked me to build him one. He offered me ?500 to do it. I declined only because I build for myself and my own pleasure.

Regarding repairs. My boat was damaged recently. The repair cost for parts alosne is almost 25% of what the original kit cost me. It hurts, but at the end of the day its just like keeping a car going. Also proberly cheaper than running the wife.

Regarding me keeping a costing record. Think I will forget the idea as you are both right.

[Shipmate60]

The way I look at it is quite simple.
It is my hobby, therefore my time is free. If I wasnt working on one model I would be working on another.
It is my relaxation, (sometimes I wonder though), therefore I am not in the pub!! So saving me money.
If you want a value ask some of the professional modellers for a quote, but are you sure that your standard is the same as theirs to ensure like-for-like.

Bob

[White Ensign]

O.k. then just a thought...
I have stated, that my boat took me 3500 hours of time to get it ready. Probably the following story, happened two or three years ago due to a show might be an ignition how to "calculate".

A gentlemen came along at our stand of the SWA at the Sinsheim show. He was very interested in my HMS Lord Nelson and was interested to buy it. About the quality....- well let`s say (even if it sounds selfish): I have seen better models and also some in bader appearance. He offered me 3500 Euros (about 2500 Quid). I asked him, if he would work for 5 Euros per hour. He answered, nobody would do that- not for a period over 4 years. Though I made him the calculation, that he, who would not move out of bed for 5 Euros per hour tried to get me to do less of that. It took 3500 hours, which means by 5 Euros/h about 17500 Euros, plus about 800 for material, r/c a.s.o
He turned away a bit fed up and called me mad. My answer: Never forget- you asked me if I want to sell it. I can sell it, but I don`t have to!

Though, the only price you can name to a boat to sell, is the price, where it does not give you the feeling that somebody had gulled you. If you have that feeling- let it be and keep the boat. Otherwise it will give you some sleepless nights and doubts anyway.

Hope this was out of any help.

J?rg

[perkasa]

White Ensign could see what i was getting at. Like him I would never sell my boat, and believe me his Lord Nelson is much better than anything I have built.  Bob is also right to an extent. Yes we do build for our hobby and it is relaxing, and that that sums it up.

I was only curious about true cost because people kept asking me,  in which case time would be a factor. However time is not importent.

Pete

 

[dougal99]

Hi Perkasa

The questions you must address are:

Are cost and value the same thing?

Does value just mean money?

What's the meaning of life?


 

Cheers

Doug

[Roger in France]

Doug,

The meaning of life was supplied in response to another question I asked on this Forum....

"The meaning of life is that we are here to make and sail boats" !

Roger in France.

[Roger in France]

To answer the question on "cost" seriously....

I think it is absolutely right to have regard to the difference between "cost" and "value". Cost is that (or less) which a buyer will be prepared to pay. Value is yours alone, to know.

As someone said it is my hobby and my value includes dreams, aspirations, pleasure, escapisim, exhibitionism, FUN.

Roger in France.

[ron h]

The rough estamate for a scratch built model these days by a professonal modeller starts a about ?1500.00 per foot.  ::) ::)

[dougal99]

But why would anyone want to buy a foot?

Seriously though, the original question was about the value/cost of our boats built by us. Buying a professionally built, specially commissioned boat is a whole different ball game (sorry about England but come on Murray). However, there is still the cost/value conumdrum to consider.

I bought some artwork once about 10x8 inches cost me ?30 the guy took 2 days to do it. The cost of his time was therefore probably not covered but I would probably not have paid much more. Fortunately, he wasn't depending on me for his living.

cheers

Doug

[perkasa]

Dougal99 has hit the point I was trying to make. Everything produced has a cost and labour value. 

When my wife and I go on holidays abroad we always purchase a painting by a local artist. Once in a certain 3rd world country we saw a painting we liked. We bartered and got the chap down to two thirds the original price. They expected to barter. After doing so we gave him the full asking price. WHY? Because that man took a long time to paint it.

Painings and boats are simular. You must always take into account labour time. We may build for the fun of it, but who in thier right mind would sell thier boat at a loss?

[dougal99]

Perkasa/Pete

There are probably times/occasions when one might be happy to sell a model at a loss but they would be very rare. However, I reiterate the point about leisure activities. The hard cost, ie the  cost of materials, is easy to calculate but one could argue that you have to pay for your leisure in one way or another, maybe that payment is your labour.

I'm just going to enjoy building my boats and watch the bloke waiting for one particular one to come up on ebay get more and more frustrated.  ::) I don't envisage ever selling anything.

cheers

Doug

[White Ensign]

Often when the question appears: What does it take, to make this boat happen... I use to name the time, the material, the will to do something different, a drop of heartblood and lots of dreams. To put it in a short way: Modelboats are made of stuff and emtions. How could you charge emotions anyway?
Tell you what:
It was ever a dream to me, to own a real good running sail-yacht. There was a pic of one of the modern yachts in a sail-magazine, which has given me a dream. I found an old M-boat hull, very wide and perfectly matching to the foresaid origin. I have created it un my own, made a wooden deck in Gold-teak, a narrow superstructure with an open bridge a.s.o....... After it was finished it was running like hell. To it`s appearance I found a name, matching to this boat. I sailed my "English Rose" for two years and after all I sold it on a show as I needed the space in my workshop.
Still today I am sad about having sold her. But I wonder if I would do it again that way? Certainly not! It was my phantasy, my emotions in that boat. Probably you will find me overwhelming when I say: I feel like I have betrayed my dream!

J?rg

[perkasa]

Hi,

Well to sum it up. I would NEVER see a boat I have made. My first boat is the special one. Like Jorg I was strapped for space when I built a very large hovercraft. In the end I gave it to one of our puplils who was delighted. I could have sold it to a person that offered me a lot more that I paid for the material. However the person I gave it to has no come back on me. I also had the pleasure of giving it to a deserving young lad, who realy di appreciate it. So as you can see at the end of the day my question regarding labour cost was just a question to see how others felt about the subject.

Yes we all build our boats for the love of it, regardles of cost.

Lets now close this post.

[White Ensign]

Pete, just one question..... you mentioned earlier in a big compliment(thankyou very much) that the Lord Nelson was better than one of your builds. I have tried to send a PM, unfortunately I don`t got any connection.
Though my question- did you have seen her before? I wonder when and where?

J?rg