Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: cos918 on October 06, 2008, 05:14:04 pm
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hi all ,going to need some advice here. My current boat celcestine is nearing compleation. her box is 166cms long and only just fits in the car (08 mondeo hatchback.)
I am thinking of build FINNJET at 1:100 scale as she is just over 200m long the model would be about 2m long. Having a split line is not realy an option as you would see the seam line. So what i am trying to solve is how to move her. She wont fit in the car and i dont have a trailer so i guess the roof is all thats left. would it be feasible to have a 2.1m long on a roof rack. Any thought or ideas or photos would be welcome.
john
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The thought of putting a large boat on the roof rack fills me with horror. Damage; strain; the possibility of dropping.....oh no.
Solutions:
1. Change the car
2. Buy a trailer
3. Buy a house next to the lake
4. Buy a lake
Whatever way you go I think it is going to cost you money.
Roger in France.
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Hello John!
What about one of those large top boxes you see on some cars going on holiday? It would protect your boat from the elements; but you would need to provide lots of packing because of the size of the box. Also you would need a small step ladder to get the boat out! Also what about the racks used to carry skis?
Cheers
Simon 8)
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Buy a motorhome! Then you can camp out at the lake as well.
Most of us buy cars to suit the boats dont we? It's certainly a consideration for me!
Alternatively, a trailer is probably the best option.
Ian
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There is a weight limit to what you can carry on the roof otherwise your car may capsize! Check the handbook.
Think laterally, you could build a slightly smaller model....
Colin
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You should also consider the weight of the model for moving it to/from house/car - car/lake.
I had to think about this for my current build. I set out with the idea of 1:100, and ended up at 1:200. At this scale she is 1.2m and will weigh in at about 40kg fully ballasted (most of which is water ballast)
Ian
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One of the largest estates on the market are the Volvo and Vauxhall omega and it would in either of these BUT albeit diagonally.Of the 2 I would if I was you go for the Omega but get the 2.5td with the BMW engine in it 45+per gallon.Thew mondeo is such a disappointing car interior wise as I had thought of a change till one came in to work and I was able to get the tape measure out.If I had mondeo the 1mtr,the tid a pair of oars,electric outboard two 12v car bats waterproofs etc would not fit in a mondeo but it all fits with room to spare.Just to give you an idea of space I can get into the back 14 boats club display board a gazebo and loads of ods and sods under the back seats to get to shows bet you could not in a Mondeo,sorry to sound as if I am blowing the Omega's trumpet but me got one and top change to get more room I would have to get a Vw Transporter or a transit van!!!!1
All the boats in the photo were carried in the Omega Honestly
Stavros
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hi all well thanks for you ideas and thoughts.
The car is a company car Not my choice. There is no tow hook i might be abel to get one i would have to see.
changing the scale might work but i know some one makes a 1:100 hull so thats were the scale came from +there a lot of fitting avaible at this scale.
If i did make a box she would be weged in to it tight and that would be well staped or bolted to the roof rack
the weight is not a proplem ford say 90kg max so load of capicty as the batters +ballest would be in the car.
roger love your idea house next to lake mmm heaven but the bank manger say NO >>:-( >>:-(.
john
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John, it sounds like the only feasable option would be a trailer and perhaps a purpose made one at that. Since all the box trailers on the market would be a bit too short one suggestion would be a motorcycle trailer as they are open framed and fairly compact, you could then attach a purpose built box with suitable cradles and padding to go inside to support and cushion your model. The real problem with trailers is the springing and they could result in a fair amount of jostling of your model so loads of foam would be essential.
I haven't actually done this myself but it was the first thing that sprang to mind and would probably be the way I would go.
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the trailer look like a posiabilty. But most of thoes little trailers i have seen seam to bounce a far bit is this comom with them.
john
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I bought a (Finnish-made) trailer with lid for about €1600 a few months ago, primarily to transport models. Its about 2.6 metres long. Came in very handy during our recent house move, too.
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Hi, the only thing with a trailer and tow bar is cost, about 2years ago i had one fitted too the mondeo i had, it was £200 fitted and i paid £150 for a S/H motorcycle trailer that doesn't get used anymoor as my bike has gone
sorry for the downside
Andy
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i have seen seam to bounce a far bit is this comom with them
Yes
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most bounce when empt and loaded up are ok
Andy
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I should have added that my trailer is often lightly-loaded (model planes) and should you see the state of the roads round here, we have 6 km of dirt tracks before we reach the tarmac road, and the weather and tractors have made them full of deep holes, but I am yet to damage anything in the trailer.
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thanks for all your input its given me food for thought O0
john
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I would go with the trailer as lifting a "canoe" sized item up and into a roof box is not going to be the easiest of feats.
with the trailer then the whole sailing kit can be put in there and then that put into the garage and then thats the storage taken care of as well O0
R,
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There's more than one way to skin a cat! Regarding the rigidity of trailer suspension, this could be further softened if the model box itself was cushioned by a soft shock absorbant mounting where it fitted onto the framing. I am sure with a bit of thought this could be achieved by some kind of foam mounting block at each anchor point. It may even be possible to use a huge thick piece of foam the size of the box base for the whole box to sit upon and actually secure the box with multiple elasticated hooks as this would allow the whole thing to be removed in moments without the aid of tools. If the box incorporated wheels and a handle itcould also be use to transport the model from the trailer to the pondside thereby reducing the possibility of accidental damage occurring during this transit phase of the operation.
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My Dreadnought is 2.23 metres long and fits (just) in a Nissan Almera - when I take out the front passenger seat. That's not as bad as it sounds, though: four bolts and a minute with a socket set. The difficulty is moving the weight (it'll be 50kg when ballasted) up and over the boot-lip without causing damage.
Does the Mondeo have a lip to the boot? My old Peugeot estate didn't, and it was ridiculously easy to get that to swallow stuff.
Andy, who once got four internal doors in a Golf...
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A herese makes for perfect transport for moving large model boats around O0
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Andy, who once got four internal doors in a Golf...
I believe your taking it back to have 4 outside doors fitted.
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Garabaldy, a hearse is what you will definately need if you build too big... and it won't be for the model!
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I believe your taking it back to have 4 outside doors fitted.
Not a chance - the letterboxes would flutter in the wind.
That said, I suppose my Peugeot did come with French windows!
Andy
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A 4X4 or even an "estate" as the were once know as is great for transporting large vessels,
Oh and by the way altering tyre pressures on trailers has an effect on the "ride" but too soft can cause snaking
R,
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And you can also be prosecuted for having tyres that are underinflated.A trailer manufacturer as well as a car manufacturer will specify the tyre pressures get stopped and they check pressures and what do point make prizes in other words not only a fine but worse than that but increased ins premiums,food for thought I think.You think I kid about tyre pressures I do not.I had to attend court as a Police wittiness due to a customer of mine many years ago running a trailer that I had sold him with underinflated tyres when it was clear on the trailer plate attached to the drawbar what the pressures should have been.What happened he was done!!!!
Stavros
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I will agree to your post Stavros
though there are laden and unladen pressures recommended by some trailer manufacturer's like some car manufacturer's give you the two different pressures on a plate some where on the car.
Lets say that there is an average tyre pressure of 22 psi and your drag sways (snakes) at 50 MPH, increase to 24 psi and this may stop what would you say was the safer ? the tyre manufacturer states (on the tyre max inflation pressure of 30 psi)
While i drag several types of trailer from box 4 X 6 to tri axle transporter I have found that a few PSI will change the way the drag acts, along with ball weight ride hight, (people who tow should take an added licence)
Yes under inflated tyres are bad as are over inflated I was not talking in the extreams and I apologise for that unclear point
My tri axle tyre pressures are 24 / 26 / 26 the two equal axles are tandem and the lower pressure is an indespension floating if I put the pressure up to thew 26 psi the drag snatches and and become very 'live'
Just my findings and I will keep to them as the drags are safer
R,
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Maybe not an added licence for towing - but certainly something like a compulsory motorbike CBT wouldn't do any harm. A morning of reversing in straight lines, around corners and stuff. I've towed dinghies and small trailers over the years, and seen plenty of "hopeless cases" in boat parks who didn't have the first idea. >>:-(
Andy
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i still think the top roof box idea is not rediculous-
yes it is gonna be tough getting the model up and down off the roof of the car into the water or into the workshop, but i still think the issue of the loading on the roof may not be so far off ...
i cant speak for the mondeo... but i had a laguna estate some years ago... i have a Thule roof box and Thule bars,
the thule luggage box would not contain a model 2m long but the box is basically only a huge vacuum forming, - but it is certificated to an 80 kg loading, so in theory 80 kg in a plastic bubble strapped to the roof is feasable and as far as the authorities are concerned it is feasable and safe, the box is TUV approved........
the box attatches to bars that go across the car... ( horizontal bars ) these then fix to feet that attatch to your car make/ model or via roof rails/ roof bars if the car has these fitted....
the horizontal Thule bars are certifcated to a higher loading still, but these attatch to the factory fit roof bars on the laguna car- renault claim these roof bars/ fixing points were good for over 100kg roof weight loading..
so the plastic box weighs a few kgs even when empty, the max permissable load in the box of 80 kg and then the horizintal bars......all this then attatches to the car roof via the roof rails or the roof rack fixing point... so a load potentially of 100kg on the car roof is 'do able'
my thoughts are - custom make a box to fit the boat into in a material of your choice,
chances are its not going to he rediculously tall, make it as low as possible so as to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible but make it fit your model ...,
the thule bars that fit to most makes of car are quick fixing types , they can be removed fairly quickly if required, the bars allow for all types of fitting to be added from boxes, to canoe carriers to cycle carries and the likes, all fix using a U shaped fixing and swing fixing, so place the U clamp round the bar and whatever is being carried so the U clamp could protrude through the bottom of the boat carry box , this is then placed on the bars and then the swing fixing is placed over the 2 'open ends' of the U fixing and are closed onto it, they grip and keep everything in place... tight and secure ...
as the box is not going to be as wide as the car place- down the centreline of the vehicle on the roof and take it steady.....
i took my thule box fully loaded along with a fully loaded car and trailer to spain and back with no problems.....those Thule patented U fixings fix and relase in seconds, once they're done they're tight.... they dont loosen during a journey either....
so i suggest contacting ford to see what the car roof points can safely carry and consider the roof option, Thule is expensive kit but safe and quality, a well made box in timber or maybe GRP could be a possability.....
the joy with a roof box is if made correctly this could be used on different cars just by changing thule foot pack feet to whatever make/ model of car you plan to use...so it would be interchangeable....
any idea what a boat that size would weigh ?
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Very helpful if you haven't tried it before
http://www.uktow.com/reversing.asp (http://www.uktow.com/reversing.asp)
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well once again thank you for all your in puts it defently give me some good ideas. The model if its get built would be about 2.1m long so abox would be 2.2m long. Weather it be roof rack or trailer its still going to need a box.
So my thoughts are. She will never ail alone due to getting her in and out of the water. So since there will be 2 people were ever she gos get a box of that size on to a roof rack or in to a trailer would not be a problem. Her wight its hard to say but at a quess i would say 30kg there about . So both options are fesaible. On cost the roof rack wins has if i went down the trailer route i need tow hook trailer. Since i only have the car for 3 years it a lot of money to get a tow hook fitted for a shorth space of time. So i think make a box trill fit it on the roof rack and do a test run empty. if it works great. if there to much wobbel go to plan b trailer.
john
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A hearse would be ideal, that way if you have a heart attack lifting the boat, well............... ok1
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The thought of putting a large boat on the roof rack fills me with horror. Damage; strain; the possibility of dropping.....oh no.
Solutions:
1. Change the car
2. Buy a trailer
3. Buy a house next to the lake
4. Buy a lake
Whatever way you go I think it is going to cost you money.
Roger in France.
5. Build a trailer to your specs. Mine can carry 2 x 8' boats, is collapsible, fitted with a hood and the whole thing cost about £400.
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the trailer look like a posiabilty. But most of thoes little trailers i have seen seam to bounce a far bit is this comom with them.
john
Going back a long time I said that I run my trailer tyres "flat" and was castigated for doing so (mainly by a Greek Welchman). With 2 heavy models in the trailer the tyres don't even notice the difference....and the trailer doesn't bounce around.
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Brian Young if you going to have a go please get your spelling right it is NOT welchman it is WELSHMAN\ ok2
Stavros
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Brian Young if you going to have a go please get your spelling right it is NOT welchman it is WELSHMAN\ ok2
Stavros
[/quote
Sorry, my mistake,,,,,grovel, grovel and so on. But yonks ago you did have a go at me regarding the tyre pressures on my trailer.
The trailer is really quite light as far as trailers are concerned and the lowest weighting suspension units I could find were 250kg units. That is a lot of poundage. Even with 2 ships in the trailer with each weighing around the 100lb average mark the trailer with "correctly" inflated tyres would bounce around something terrible. I have "Mini" wheels on the trailer. My solution was to let all ao the air out of the tyres to allow the tyre to act as a cushion. Even when fully loaded the weight of the trailer plus models and all the stuff we need to cart around (batteries etc.) the tyres appear to be fully inflated...because there is no weight on them. Although the air pressure in them appears to be zero there is obviously air in there. So the tyres are my springs, and the trailer just more or less hugs the road as well as the car does. No desire for an argument, but my solution is a problem solved. BY.
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Garabaldy, a hearse is what you will definately need if you build too big... and it won't be for the model!
Especially lifting it onto a roof rack. :o
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Brian Young if you going to have a go please get your spelling right it is NOT welchman it is WELSHMAN\ ok2
Stavros
UNDREGROUND!
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Could the problem of overbouncy trailer be sorted by ballasting the trailer with paving slabs (maintaing the flatbed) or sacks of sand. I imagine this could be done without comproming fuel economy noticably.
I seem to remembe my dad haveing a Mark II Ford Capri with a sack of cement permanently intstalled in the boot, for handling reasons. Not bounce thank god.
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I have "Mini" wheels on the trailer. My solution was to let all ao the air out of the tyres to allow the tyre to act as a cushion. Even when fully loaded the weight of the trailer plus models and all the stuff we need to cart around (batteries etc.) the tyres appear to be fully inflated...because there is no weight on them. Although the air pressure in them appears to be zero there is obviously air in there. So the tyres are my springs, and the trailer just more or less hugs the road as well as the car does. No desire for an argument, but my solution is a problem solved.
Nevertheless, this is illegal and under some circumstances can be extremely dangerous
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The thought of putting a large boat on the roof rack fills me with horror. Damage; strain; the possibility of dropping.....oh no.
Solutions:
1. Change the car
2. Buy a trailer
3. Buy a house next to the lake
4. Buy a lake
Whatever way you go I think it is going to cost you money.
Roger in France.
5. Build a trailer to your specs. Mine can carry 2 x 8' boats, is collapsible, fitted with a hood and the whole thing cost about £400.
Any chance of a copy of the spec.s for your trailer?
Sounds interesting!
Rex
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I used to carry an almost six foot boat together with a large box on my Cortina roofbars, lashed down with ratchet straps, with no problems at all. The s/structure and ballast went inside the car. The only downside was the number of people you could see thinking it was a coffin, so be prepared for some strange looks if you go the roofrack way... {-) {-) :(
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The thought of putting a large boat on the roof rack fills me with horror. Damage; strain; the possibility of dropping.....oh no.
Solutions:
1. Change the car
2. Buy a trailer
3. Buy a house next to the lake
4. Buy a lake
Whatever way you go I think it is going to cost you money.
Roger in France.
5. Build a trailer to your specs. Mine can carry 2 x 8' boats, is collapsible, fitted with a hood and the whole thing cost about £400.
Any chance of a copy of the spec.s for your trailer?
Sounds interesting!
Rex
Give me a couple of days to collect old thoughts and reasons for making the thing the way I did. There are no "specs" as such, just a utilisation of materials available. BY.
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Is THIS any good.....? :o
Rich
{-) {-) {-)
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Is THIS any good.....? :o
Rich
{-) {-) {-)
Good? Thats brilliant O0
Have you got one that big :o or do you dream of one like it??
Ron.
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Is THIS any good.....? :o
Rich
{-) {-) {-)
Good? Thats brilliant O0
Have you got one that big :o or do you dream of one like it??
Ron.
Best ask the good woma...oh no, not on this forum! :o
Rich
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To all that may be interested.
Rex Hunt? Did we not meet in 1982 about 8,000 miles south of the UK? I recall your partiality to a G&T with relish. But perhaps I have the wrong Rex Hunt. Have you still got your London Taxi?
The idea of building a trailer to carry the boats was born out of necessity and not for convenience. Most of my builds are at 1:48 scale so that really limits me to ships up to about 300' in length. Thats fine by me as I rather like the smaller and "old-fashioned" ships as opposed to the more modern things that are more functional than aesthetic.
I called in at a Firm called "Indespension" who specialise in trailers and all things pertaining to. The closest they had to my needs was a 4' x 4' square chassis. But I wanted a 4' x 8' thing. So they made me one for the princely sum of £50. Then hire a van to get it home. The choice of size was dictated by the size of a sheet of plywood. The bare chassis was very well made and also came with fitting holes for the low weight suspension units I had specified.I was also very pleased to see that hubs to fit "Mini" wheels were fotted to the units. In retrospect I could have opted for larger wheels, but as the original idea was to be able to fold the trailer up against a wall then larger wheels would be more intrusive. At the same time I bought the "ancilliaries"....Mudguards, too much cable, plugs and sockets, tow bar (male and female),reflectors and light fittings and so on and a QR release thingy that would attach the trailer to the car. A complete Kit! Wrong.
Four 8' x 4' sheets of 1/2" ply were stuffed into the van along with a few lengths of aluminium angle. I forgot to buy a lot of odd bits but as my local DIY shop is only a 3 minute walk away this was no problem.
Please bear with me on this, but I had never built a trailer before so I was scratching around for info. "Indespension" had sold me a book about trailers and so on. Wow! Never realised how many "Rules" I had to comply with!
1...Although the chassis came primed I gave it another coat of "Hammerite". Belt and braces.
2...Fitthe suspension units and wheels. Easy. Now the beast was moveable....except that the front bit needed some support. B&Q stocked the ideal castor wheel I needed to act as a jockey wheel. This involved another problem...where to fit it.
3...This was reasonably easily solved by spending a week fitting the male part of the tow hook on to the car...which involved cutting away bits of bodywork to get access to a strong chassis member. That gave me the height at which to fit the trailer locking thingy. A nice spare bit of Mahogany did that.
4...The fitting of the jockey wheel should have been a pretty straightforward job, but in my ignorance I had forgotten that the thing had to be swung out of contact with the the road when being towed. So I just had to devise a swinging and locking mechanism to allow that. Another couple of weeks.
It all works a treat. But that is basically the completion of the chassis build. I took the enclosed pics this afternoon which seriously interrupted my building of "Northumbrian". I hope you are suitably grateful!!!!
Pics...
2356 shows the tyre loading at over full weight.OK,I can put a couple more psi in there, but in no way does it look "flat" (for Stavros and others).
2360 is just the fitting of the locking gizmo, the angle brackets holding the electrical connections and the jockey wheel swivel etc.
2358 and 2359 are only variations on 2360.
2361 and 2362 are yet to be "discussed".
Bodywork and interior will be described "later".
Having a bit of a problem with pics....will sort it out. BY.
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Shame about the photos Bryan :-))
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Bryan, I think the whole idea of a trailer centers around how soft you can get the suspension units so the models are not bounced to bits. Do Indespension units come in different ratings? I have an extreemly usefull and versatile motorcycle trailer but it is designed to carry a full sized motorcycle so consequently when unloaded is a bit bouncy. Great though for strapping anything else to and I have two very large plastic bins that I tie to it for transporting all sorts of loose stuff.
The only way I could see it being usefull to carry models would be to lay something like foam or a mattress over it to absorb some of the movement. Better luck next time with the pictures.
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Bryan, I think the whole idea of a trailer centers around how soft you can get the suspension units so the models are not bounced to bits. Do Indespension units come in different ratings? I have an extreemly usefull and versatile motorcycle trailer but it is designed to carry a full sized motorcycle so consequently when unloaded is a bit bouncy. Great though for strapping anything else to and I have two very large plastic bins that I tie to it for transporting all sorts of loose stuff.
The only way I could see it being usefull to carry models would be to lay something like foam or a mattress over it to absorb some of the movement. Better luck next time with the pictures.
Yes, the units come in various ratings....but the 250kg units were the softest I could find. Still a bit on the hard side though. As far as internal cushioning is concerned I will deal with that when I've finished with the rest of the construction. Bryan.
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Let's try the pics again.
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Gosh Bryan, I always wondered where you lived!
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Gosh Bryan, I always wondered where you lived!
Sorry, you have lost me there. Or do you think I live in the trailer? SWMBO has for years threatened to install a bunk bed, toilet bucket and a primitive shower into my "work space". I respond by tramping bits of swarf over "her" carpets and generally making a nuisance of myself. She has responded by stowing her "new" potatoes in a cupboard (in the workshop)that I had earmarked for something else. But I shall prevail! I will never fogive or forget the day when she "dropped" a garden spade on to the foredeck of the incomplete "Norseman". But I love her all the same. (And she is a great cook). Bryan.
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As you will see later (Colin) I do have enough room for a sleeping bag if it is required...
Pics 2365 and 2366 just show the trailer with its roof off.
The hood bearers and support struts are left in place.
The hood supports are simple aluminium tubing and the hood bearers are shaped timber (teak in this case). Both the tubes and the bearers have been "notched" to accept each other. The various little studs sticking out of the sides etc. are the male parts of the "press-the-dot" fasteners as used on car hoods. The windscreen is a fairly simple structure using "Glodex" (a secondary double-glazing material that is not much more than 1/16" thick) with an aluminium angle surround. This is removable to allow the trailer to fold "flattish". The long sides fold inwards, followed by the 2 ends.
2369 and 2370 are a bit different from the above. That is the 6' long "Baroda" sitting in its cradle. But we are talking about the trailer.
I put the 2 long lengths of timber along the sides just as stiffeners for the ply. The ally hood bearer supports hinge at the base and when in use clip into large "Terry Clips". The timber hood bearers (when not in use) clip into simlar clips at the rear end of the trailer.
The entire interior was given a good coating of coloured varnish that has stood the test of time and weather (and muck). All the timber edges have aluminium edging.
The tailgate is different. It is of 2 thicknesses of ply with the insides grooved to ecapsulate the wiring. It also makes for a very substantial platform.
The ally strips are really only there because I liked the aesthetic value...but they have also protected the timber from gouges and what not.
"Baroda" is sitting in its cradle, which is in turn fastened to the trailer. The cradle is "cushioned" from the trailer and the model is further cushioned by lengths of pipe lagging foam tube. Other mountings can be seen on the "vacant" side....theses are for a larger model.
Pic 2368
This shows various things.
1....A pair of simple bolts locking 2 sides together.
2....The arrangement of the hood struts and bearers.
3....One of the (many) hinges that allow the thing to fold.
4....The chain and protective cover that allows the tailgate to sit flat.
I hope that this has answered your queries, and possibly enthused you enough to build your own. I had a lot of fun building this thing and learned a lot by doing it. It was all a lot cheaper than buying one "off the peg", and it does exactly what was originally intended.
Cheers. BY.
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Hi all
I don't know why I didn't think of it before but, I found this while searching for handy items. I am planning on getting a small boat for fishing but don't have a drive to store it, so it would have to go in the back garden. This means a trailer would be very awkward to navigate through the alley to my back gate.
It's an inflatable roof rack with a load capacity of 80kg! And it only costs £50
http://www.force4.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/1823/groupID/6/categoryID/52/v/0af7beb3-007c-47c2-b585-445d6967da88
The link should take you straight to it. I have no interest in this company. I haven't even been in contact with them. I just thought that this may save a lot of messing around with trailers and removing of seating to make room for a larger model.
I have seen them on other sites so I would think they should be widely available through chandlers.
Regards Al
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How do you move big boats? Try this - or is it overkill? %)
http://www.maidoftheloch.com/html/slipway1.html
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Ooh I like that one more place to visit.
Thanks Barry
Colin H.