Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: thebackways on May 20, 2011, 09:59:05 pm
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hi im new to this forum and the r/c world in general
ive acquired several r/c ships from my stepfather along with a bunch of other r/c vehicles
the ships themselves are in varying conditions and scales however none of them work
and id like to restore them to sailing condition and sail them with a local club
but im unsure how to fix them and ive little experience with r/c
if there are any local members that could contact me to help get them fixed i would be very gratefull
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Say again!
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Your question is very vague in what help you need so im going to refure you to a thread i wrote in about the terminology of rc bits in general, this may be able to help you sort your boats out should you not get any local help.
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28720.msg283775#msg283775 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28720.msg283775#msg283775)
This should also help you ask better questions in which we can help you further should you get stuck.
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Lost for words Mike ? {:-{
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This should also help you ask better questions in which we can help you further should you get stuck.
Bit patronizing dont you think ? %)
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not really richard
when the guy asks for "local members" and then can't remember to put on his profile any location......we're not mind readers,
it's hard to help when the questions are so vague....he could be talking about ICE powered boats, whilst someone starts giiving advice on steam, lol %% %% %%
sometimes the questions posted on here are so vague and profound that you really need to be a magician.
so come on lilgoth89, give us a few more clues/ pics etc, and we'll be able to help.
neil.
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Are there any model boat clubs in Staffordshire?
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A model boat club based in Alton Towers. Now that would be something.
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youll find my location is in the thread title ( lichfield )
please also note, im autistic and not used to talking in these sorts of forums...
they are all electric powerd vessles
the one ive been tinkering with i can only move the rudder ( albeit intermittently )
it does seem to have a mind of its own sometimes tho....
the largest ship i own, although ive a feeling its to damaged to repair
(http://s4.postimage.org/vjk4u5gk/P110520_225235.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vjk4u5gk/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/vkxqyk9w/P110519_200020.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vkxqyk9w/)
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Oh yes, Potteries Model Boat Club, Burton Model boat Club, Chasewater Model boat Club, Crewe Model boat club....
Lilgoth, I am currently working on a project in Lichfield, (Beacon Park),give me a shout if need be and I can help you best I can...
Russ
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yeah any help would be massivly apprechiated, as you can see, the larger ship i was givern is in terrible shape, and ive neither the knowledge or the experience to fix it.
its full of bits that i assume were part of the superstructure as well as fittings and stuff...
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Lost for words Mike ? {:-{
No, just hit the wrong button !!
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they look nice models beneath the ravages of time.
best bet is to start by stripping all electrics out and putting to one side........you can think about that at a later date.
make sure your prop shaft and rudder are free turning before anything else is started on. if they are ok, then its firstly a matter of cleaning off all the grime, with warm soapy water, and lightly sand off the rough paint work.
now here's a tip when sanding off. the paintwork, but important for when you repaint.
you can usually tell what type of paint has been put on by the way it sands off and the way it smells when sanding. believe me.
if you rub it with a reasonably course paper..say 100 grade....if an oil based enamel it not only will clogg the sand paper in bigger lumps but it will smell of burnt paint.
celulose paint won't normally do that. also the paint will go rubbery when painted with oil/enamel paint.
when you come to repaint, it's worth klnowing that oil based /enamel paints will go over a cellulose paint with no trouble, but cellulose and acrylic paints won't go over the top of oil based/ enamels.
so you really have to take the paint down to base level.
once that has done, you can start to repair the damaged parts, and then we can get down to glues and adhesives used.
welcome to the world of model ship restoration and building......and please enjoy it.......we are all here to help.
neil. :-)) :-))
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not really richard
when the guy asks for "local members" and then can't remember to put on his profile any location......we're not mind readers,
it's hard to help when the questions are so vague....he could be talking about ICE powered boats, whilst someone starts giiving advice on steam, lol %% %% %%
sometimes the questions posted on here are so vague and profound that you really need to be a magician.
so come on lilgoth89, give us a few more clues/ pics etc, and we'll be able to help.
neil.
I would have thought the heading of the posting would have been enough Neil.
" Re: NOOB needs help (lichfield) "
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It appears that some people are geographically challenged! :} :} :} :} :} :}
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ive been sorting out some more stuff and i found a few extra parts for the boats ( superstructure bits and fittings )
cleaned out all the stuff but cant figure out how to disconect the motor from the propeller
would apprechiate a message if youve time to drop by to give me a hand russel
its not suprising ppl havent heard of lichfield it is really small for a city...
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I would have thought the heading of the posting would have been enough Neil.
" Re: NOOB needs help (lichfield) "
yeh richard, we've already established that, and moved on to the helping stage........can't be perfect all the time matey, {-) {-)
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its not suprising ppl havent heard of lichfield it is really small for a city...
oh it's a fine town, just didn't read far enough on the title. sorry.
mind you it is a draw to the town when you're on a narrow boat to know that there's a fine statue in the town of an even more famous sea captain.........or should that be imfamous sea captain. %% %% %%
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as for disconnecting the motor on the top boat......it's a huco universal coupling, there will usually be a little allen key'd grub screw that needs untightening to the end fitted onto the motor shaft, and a threaded screw fit to the end of the propellor shaft.
once you've loosened the motor from the bed that holds it, the motor will just pull out from the splined ends of the coupling and then you can take those ends off the motor and shaft in the way i've sain.
neil.
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Will to help you even though I am from North wales BUT as I am engaged to a lovely girl form Twycross I am up every other weekend so it wont be a prob to lend a hand
Stav
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stavros -- i,m not far from twycross and have met 'a lovely girl' from north wales, we'll have to have a pint in the redgate sometime, maybe we should swap houses ;) {-) {-)
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well mixed news... the iron duke now responds to commands most of the time, but has an annoying tendancy to go ballistic sometimes
the alte liebe ( larger tug ) got the motor out, and found 2 small holes in the fiberglass hull can these be patched ? ?
the deck also came loose ( and then came out when i turned it upside down >_< )
(http://s4.postimage.org/1a8evleec/P110521_220444.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1a8evleec/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1a8gj4qw4/P110521_220458.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1a8gj4qw4/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1a8i6o3dw/P110521_220533.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1a8i6o3dw/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1a8ju7fvo/P110521_220543.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1a8ju7fvo/)
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lilgoth89 ...in model making...there a very few things that cannot be "patched"....however a few points for your consideration
1. remove those two lightly glued atwart ship wooden sections & possibly that vertical post in the bow section
2. a brisk sand to remove all loose & flaking paint from the complete hull internal or more recently added glueings
3. locate the two hull perforation's/holes abrade the surrounding hull surface...then use PVC insulation tape over the holes on the external surface
4. depending on the sizing of these holes you could simply add automotive car BOG or epoxy resin & glass cloth
5. if you chose automotive car BOG ...you could get a suitably sized nitrile o-ring ...tack down with super glue.....the fill the void of the o-ring with the bog....when hardened remove the o-ring & you have a substantially strong disk of material
6. replacement wooden atwart beams can be positioned & secured back to the hull sides in a similar manner with o-rings forming the disk pads & car BOG
7. a lot further down the track....the hull externals will need a rubdown with 1200 wet & dry paper & any imperfections corrected again with car BOG O0
Keep us posted with your progress .....Derek
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Lilgoth. Like you when i started to model boats again. Every thing was confusing. It takes time to proceed.
Im sure with the help of fellow members you will end up with a boat to be proud of. Its a great feeling when
your model sails for the first time. Good luck. John.
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yeah everything is very confusing...
especially when you consider this is how everything was left by my stepfather
(http://s4.postimage.org/1vvjm7dpg/P110520_234511.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1vvjm7dpg/)
but while looking through i found several other ships
(http://s4.postimage.org/1vvwui5no/P110523_160022.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1vvwui5no/)
the small bismark and the speedboat work flawlessly ( at least in the bath )
the coastguard ship however takes on water possibly from under this
(http://s4.postimage.org/1vwa2sxlw/P110523_160100.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1vwa2sxlw/)
(note the damaged props)
unfortunatly things are not really progressing very quickly as im basically sorting it all out and its just me atm >_<
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Your water leak may be via the Prop Shafts. A common place, have a look at the Motor end of the shafts its
likely to be water coming up the Shafts. If so then greasing the Shafts should cure or cut down to small
manarergable amount. Lubing the Shaft or Shafts means taking the Shaft out, Greasing with waterproof Grease
and replacing. It is possible that your shafts have oilers. Best described as a tube pointing vertically near the
motor end of the shaft attached to the shaft. This enables oil to be dripped into the shafts.By using the
Mayhem search facility you will be able to find helpful threads on this and other subjects. It looks like youve
been left some good boats. Good luck. John.
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Chasewater MBC is based over at the Chasewater site, not that far from you in Lichfield. we sail every tuesday and saturday afternoon [see website for full details] you would be more than welcome to pop over with any of your, er "projects" and some of our members may be able to give you a few pointers "face to face", rather than just correspond via email.
we do also have a pub night meet once a month for more informal chats and project discussions, you can also pop to any of those if need be.
website: http:chasewatermbc.blogspot.com/
email : [email protected]
hope some of our crew may be able to assist you in due course.
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thanks, ive been looking into your club, but i dont have transport to get there, maybe if you had some local members that could give me a lift.
At the moment id like to get the models sorted fist so i have something that acually works for long enough to sail >_<
coz models that seem to work one moment, refuse to respond the next...
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hey another update.
after swapping controllers ( and crystals ) i managed to get the iron duke working without fault now, she just needed a new controller
i just need somewhere to try it out. she doesnt sit on an evan keel but i assume this is more of a ballast problem as alot of the models on here seem to have metal ballast added to them and i cant see any inside the hull.
i havent had much time to work on the other models unfortunately as ive been busy fixing my pc.
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The initial ballesting of a model is decided by the weight, size,and shape of the Battery. once a suitable
position has been reached then as you say ,ballest can be inserted to get the boat to float on or near its
waterline.Their has been a good thread recently on what to use and how to obtain ballest. Depending on
the size and weight of the boat. You may wish to have removable ballest,one possible use for old Batteries.
try to keep weight low if possible glue in place or costruct holder for it. Have fun. John.
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Hi
I'm new too and can't give you any advice on the boats themselves. You are lucky in having gained so many but it could get confusing if you don't just pick just one model to sort out first. I've been getting some help myself and what the lads here wanted from me first was pictures from a few angles, Length, breadth, depth, prop size, weight. As I say I don't know much but I think that info will attract good advice for you. Good luck
Norseman
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yeah, ive worked on the iron duke, now she just needs to sail for the first time... now im going to work on the alte liebe but im hoping a member of a local club
will be able to help me get her ready for the water again
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How many boats did you recieve and are they the same scale?
Norseman
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in total
1 small scale bismark
1 small speedboat
1 coastguard ship ( as per the photo )
the 2 tugs ( differeing scale )
and a 'build the bismark' unfinished hull
as well as the 'build the yamato' im building myself
also about 100 r/c cars... >_<
and a helicopter
on the next sunny day, ( if i can find some help ). ill get them all out of the shed and post a pic of them all on the garden
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Wow - that will keep you busy forever. I suppose selling some cars might fund some motors/esc's etc?
Hey your up late matey. I'm mainly a night worker so even when I'm not working I'm up till late, then four hours kip does me on 5 out of 7 nights. I had to do a day turn Sunday and it killed me to work days.
Anyway I'm going to folow your boats with interest.
Norseman
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thanks, i suffer insomia so i dont sleep much. the shed is currently piled 4ft deep in cars of every scale, im trying to work through (them matching controllers to cars )
but having so many and all the lables are missing naturaly >_< unfortunatly its going EXTREMELY slowly, and despite local club owners asking lichfield members if they can lend a hand
help is looking a long way away.
unfortunatly being autistic, im a very visual learner, but it also means i dont like groups of people i dont know, and for that reason i hate public transport to get me to said clubs >_<
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Your not alone mate.
I dislike public transport and groups of people I don't know well - I really like a good laugh with friends though, and other than themmy idea of a good party is one that I'm not invited to. That doesn' go down too well with the wife though. My pet hate is Asda at christmas - I feel squeezed like a battery hen in there. Anyway I'm off to bed in a few minutes.
Norseman
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the weather today natrually sucked... hopeing to manage to get everything out 2moz with the help of my friend :)
give you an idea of the mountin ive to sift thru >_<
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Weather sucked in Liverpool till about 2:30pm, then I got stuck into clearing the greenhouse site for my new shed. I look forward to your pics - ha ha I might score you on artistic content - if you arrange the cars in the shape of something ......................... can you tell I'm a bit bored with the drivel on TV?
Norseman
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arranging them will be hard. im not sure my garden has the space i need to arrange them into anything more than a car park ^_^
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another little update...
the iron duke is finished i added a little extra weight ( that came from the larger tug boat )
and she sits evenly ( or at least close enough ) i been a little to busy today to get the cars and everything out. but i did go in for some frequency crystal hunting
hopefully i can get to a local club soon and get you guys some 'on the water' pictures of the 3 i have so far
i dont feel up to attempting to fix the alte liebe on my own...
however here is what she would have looked like originally
(http://s1.postimage.org/p4w7pkuc/ALTE_LIEBE_lrg.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/p4w7pkuc/)
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Glad to hear that youre getting there. It all takes time, and is made harder when youre not quite sure about
something. Happy sailing . John.
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i had the 'iron duke' on the water this morning till her batteries almost ran flat...other than steering issues she runs fine, i need help to adjust the rudder as she started straight
but the longer she ran the more she wanted to turn and eventually even at full trim i had to manually hold the rudder control over to keep her going straight but other than that she sails well
(http://s3.postimage.org/h5gbzo3o/P110603_073050.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/h5gbzo3o/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/h5hzj0lg/P110603_073120.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/h5hzj0lg/)
hopfully next time the ducks wont be as interested ^_^
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looks like she could do with more ballast to get her stern to the waterline :-))
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yeah i thought that but im not sure how to remove the deck without damaging it, the deck needs to come off to be cleaned and varnished anyway, and i can correct the rudder as well
was more of a test to see how well she performs on the water and make sure that shes watertight ( which she is ) she also needs new rigging but hopefully these can be sorted out soon.
then i can start on the lifeboat.
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It may be that your rudder is slipping on the rod that goes into it or it might be the rudder arm slipping on
the shaft. Glad to hear youve been able to sail. We all have teething troubles. Good luck. John.
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hey thought id post an update. been working hard on the boats
the coastguard vessel has been taken apart, and i found large amounts of rust and watermarks inside.
i painted the rusty weights with direct to rust car paint ( lovely silver colour to boot )
also found that she was taking on water from a crack in her stern. ive poured superglue over the crack and it seems to have fixed it
(she will also be reciving a new coat of paint on her hull and a waterproof clearcoat). i also found the patch covers a 3x2cm hole in her upper stern at the waterline, but as no water leaks in i dont see it being to big of a problem
either way i filled the hole with hot melt ( only thing that came to hand ) just to be on the safe side.
not much work has been completed on the large tug as id prefer someone with alot more experience make sure i get it right as alot of work needs doing than any of the other boats
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Glad to hear that things are going your way. Happy sailing. John.
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Hi
Nice to see you back and so busy.
Norseman
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right lots of work done ive managed to salvage the original deck by means or some no nails, a little ingeuity, and a vice
my friend and i patched the hole in her hull with some waterproof no nails and superglue ( only things we had at the time )
all she needs is sanding down and re-painting and then a waterproof clearcoat applied. as for the electricals i still dont know if the motor is a runner or not,
if the speed controller works, or if the battery is any good, ( one of the terminals has been snapped off >>:-( ) id test the motor, but ive no 12 volt batteries to test it with
the motor turns freely tho, even with its small gear box attached. unfortunatly i cant get anything out of the controller / reciver at all ( again no ideas why )
so to test things i 'borrow' the reciver /controller of the smaller tug
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A 12v motor will run on 6v more slowly with less power. It may still be ok at that voltage to sail your boat.If
you have two 6v batteries you could link them in series to give 12v. On the batteries connect one positive to
one negative. This leaves you with one positive on one battery and a negative on the other battery.To these
terminals connect your esc (fused of course) as normal. A car battery charger is another 12v source as long
as its not a modern electronic type. Wish you well. John.
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well i got the motor turning over ( borrowing the electricals from the smaller tug boat )
i tried the ESC, but when connected i got nothing out of it ( exept 2 little clicks... )
i pulled it up and found this
(http://s1.postimage.org/96lxf9j8/P110712_232116.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/96lxf9j8/)
so my guess is that its dead....
but it clicked twice, and i cant get it to click anymore...
maybe i killed it with a 7.2 battery ???
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Looks like an electrolize. Is this esc out of its case? This make is reparable.John.
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yeah i removed its case to see why it clicked and to generally check its condition as the case showed some signs of corrosion damage ( rust marks )
it is an electronize ( fr15hvr )
suprised you can tell the make from a blurry rust coverd photo tho lol
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Hi John again.You esc can be repaired if you require by Electronize. assuming that you cant do it yourself.
This works out a lot cheaper than buying a new one. Your esc has a built in bec according to your description.
If you are using a separate power source for your rec then this could be the problem. John.
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ok small update... i decided to re-apply the prop and nut, however everytime i screw it on it seems to seize up the propshaft. am i doing something wrong ??
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nevermind i fixed it nw, just need to find my battery bracket and my propshaft ( im good at losing things >_< )
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From my own experience Small things have a good way of hiding. Look under any sofa or Car Seat. You will
find a coloney of pens pencils etc. Large objects find it difficult to hide, so instead they dont work or are
intermitant.How often does your breadmaker wrongly program? Then there is the final group of things(the
worst) which can hide, then when found dont work. (a torch). John.
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lol ive found that. the propshaft is hiding somewhere in the garage ( it was on my desk till it got 'cleaned' ) as for the motor housing it could be anywhere
ive also changed up from 7.2v to 9.6v for the boats exept the larger tug which im still hoping to run on 12v ( its original battery ) but i only have a single charger (200mah) which takes it a REALLY long time to charge up the batteries
also, as im thinking of getting a new motor mount/propshaft if the originals cant be found, can anyone link me to one that will fit ? the motor is about 2" in diameter and 3 and 3quater inches long ( 5 x 9.5cm )
no idea what length propshaft i need tho >_<
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what a monsterous pile of rc stuff. do you reckon youl get it all to work? you could probably use some of the parts from less salvagable vessels to recondition the better ones. i would but then i cut down propellers too %%
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i dought half of it works tbh, when i came back to live here they had already been left outside for an entire winter i just cleaned up the garden by moving what was outside, into the shed,
unfortunatly last week during the divorce procedings he demanded his cars back but ive pulled at least 20 out, and not 1 of them work. but the boats are all mine now thankfully
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well more problems with the smaller tug ( iron duke ) i went to take her to a nearby pool to test the 9.6volt operation but had instant problems with the rudder, the servo and everything is fine, but the rudder slips so much on the shaft im not even sure its connected, even turning the boat on its side will move the rudder...
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see f theres a grub screw you can tighten up it not super glue it to the shaft. make sure you dont get glue in the bearing though ;)
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as i read that, i turned around to find my superglue...gone...>_<
fortunatly ive got some exterier no nails
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Can you give an idea of the size of your tug? It will help the lads suggest a suitable motor. Your previous
motor sounds quite big. I wonder if it started off as a car motor. As regard the propshaft mmb make all
lengths.Deciding the length is a little hard to put into words. How much protudes from the Hull depends to
an extent on prop size. If shaft comes out at an angle, the further out then the bigger prop. All my boats have
about an 5mm or so protuding.Personally i prefer a 4mm shaft unless its a big boat. There is a good range of
4mm props.I use a shaft threaded both ends so huco coupling can be screwed on then lock nutted. MMB do
have a good range of shafts. John.
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the boat is 100cm x 30cm x16cm but the original battery is a runner thankfully so ive no need, but its mounting bracket is missing. im thinking of mounting it further back ( direct to the propshaft if i can )
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Im not quite sure about what you mean about mounting the motor direct to the propshaft. most of us will use
a coupler. The huco one being popular, but there are other makes and designs.Even rubber tube on small boats. Usually i use a huco insert of the right size to slide onto the motor shaft, secured by the allen bolt in
the fitting.I file a flat on the motor shaft for better grip.Then a huco uj. If the end of the propshaft is threaded
say 4mm, then a threaded 4mm insert is put on and locked with a locknut to secure.Leaving a little end play.
this assumes that the prop is fitted and locknutted on. Hope ive made sense. John.
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sorry
the way it used to run
______ ________ _________ ____
motor |_____ / coupling \____ 2nd propshaft____/ coupling \_____propshaft_____/prop \
______| \________/ \_________/ \____/
im planning to change it to
______ ________ ____
motor |_____ / coupling \_________propshaft_____/prop \
______| \________/ \____/
i tried this earlier on, but the motor began to vibrate alot so i stopped
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why did it have a second coupling a propshaft : {:-{
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lilgoth89 ...with single prop shafts, if the are not supported on twin bronze grease filled or roller bearings....the actual prop shaft can created a WHIP effect ....if using twin prop shafts the WHIP can greatly increase >>:-( <*<
Most commercially available/built prop shafts incorporate bearings........simple couplings are to accommodate misalignment.....never designed to support the rotating mass .......I have revised your sketch to include these......Derek
motor\_____ /coupling\_________/start of propshaft\/fixed bearing_____________________________________fixed Bearing\/end of prop shaft\/water tight seal\/prop
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watertight seal? my prop shaft didnt come with a watertight seal {:-{ plus it has holes in the tube i suppose these are to grease it. how do i go about doing that?? the holes are only 1.5mm diametre do i need to buy a grease gun?
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well if you include the bearings then the drawing becomes
______ ________ _________ ____
motor |_____ / coupling \____ 2nd propshaft____/ coupling \_|____propshaft___|__/prop \
______| \________/ \_________/ |_______________| \____/
hull
im planning to change it to
______ ________ ____
motor |_____ / coupling \__|_______propshaft___|__/prop \
______| \________/ | | \ ____/
hull
(http://s1.postimage.org/23upltxj8/P110521_220533.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/23upltxj8/)
vs how im planning to have it
(http://s1.postimage.org/249n3hq10/P110719_084013.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/249n3hq10/)
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from these pictures if it was me id just keep the orginal setup. im a noob myself though so dont take my word for it. why are you changing it?
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coz ive lost the propshaft >_<
and i need more weight on the stern
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Are you putting any money into these builds?
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im trying not to...money is extremely tight atm...so im trying to get these fixed as cheeply as possible
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i know what u mean. gotta mend and make do. {-)
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yeah, so far ive managed to spend nothing, just using what i have to hand
just got to sort out the vibration problem. >>:-( dont want any damage to components
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i think its gonna get to a point where your gonna have to spend some money im afraid. done well so far though. how many have you finished?
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well the speedboat runs fine,
the bismark seems to run ok but is a little overpoweed and tends to push her own stern underwater when at full power ( but that maybe coz ive only ran her in the bath )
the iron duke runs great now ive glued the rudder to the shaft, and upped her to some decent batterys
the lifeboat needs new props then she will be fine
the large tug is in need of a mountin of work still,
a whole new superstructure
hopefully the ESC can be run on 9,6v as opposed to the 12 it used to run on once its repaired
a new rudder mounting
problems fixed
hole in hull
motor
hull watertighting
bent prop blade
propshaft lubrication
also large amount of parts fount including some rather nice brass pullys
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i was just back reading threw some mof the threads and probably the reason for the iron duke to keeo turnin left or watever when ya tested it would probably down the fact it was slipping on the shaft. Did you manage to fix that?
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sorry youve allready said my bad
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well ive applied no nails to the shaft and it seems to have fixed the issue, im waiting for a break in the weather coz i went for a walk up the local pool and the water seemded a little rough for her
( she is only little 26inches x 5 inches x 4 inches )
but the rudder seems alot better in the bath
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Model boaters dont have baths. They call them test tanks. John.
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well she runs fine in my 'test tank' at least. ill be taking a walk up to the local pool 2moz morning and hopefully see how she performs on the open water
was going to today, but there was a massive police presence around town due to the queen visiting so i didnt get chance
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Thats it mate your picking up the lingo. Good sailing John.
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i suppose dining room table is dry dock ok2 its my dry dock anyway!
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thankfully ive a 'dry dock' on a desk in my room :)
and ill need it to scratchbuild my own superstructure, im not very good at woodwork at all
and ive only extremly basic tools at my disposable
unfortunatly plans are on hold untill ive enough spare cash to get a new speed controller as i cant get a single spark of life out my one atm :(
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i got a mechanical speed controller i dont want it cos its not powerful enough for my boat. but its might do allright for your boat and its has reverse. you need a servo to operate it though.
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im sure with all the R/c cars i can find a working servo if you need rid of it %% %% and its unlikey anyone will miss it tbh, the servo im using for rudder has been 'permanently borrowed' from one of the cars
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check your pm
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Large update. after alot of work today and borrowing the ESC from the smaller tug creating ( "bodged" ) a motor mount, fixing the rudder mounting i placed her in the 'test tank' and she powered herself through the water for the first time since she was almost destroyed. the only work needed now is the fixing of more weights in the hull ( and indeed finding more weights as im currently using 2, 1L bottles ( full ) to get her close to the waterline
(http://s4.postimage.org/x85muy1w/P110722_165354.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x85muy1w/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/x8dwjois/P110722_191826.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x8dwjois/)
bit of a mess, but she run's
(http://s4.postimage.org/x8phb3z8/P110722_191812.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/x8phb3z8/)
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that motor mount looks allright. as long as its secure. its not goin to be seen and the end of the day.
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thx, i wont be needing the ESC as the one from the smaller tug works in the larger tug as well. i just need to find a larger 'test tank' as untill her superstructure is done i cant take her onto open waters
but ive no idea on where to start with the superstructure at all >_<
also wired up 2 switches today, one for the motor and the other that kills everything.
added 2, 9.6 batterys ( so i can keep sailing when one dies %% )
and glued the weights down in her bow
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has it got a superstructure?
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unfortunatly aside from a few deck fittings and the funnel thats it as far as i know. its possible that some other small parts escaped her destruction, but my stepfather really took his aggression out on her... and im trying to at least get her sailing again, as it seemed a massive waiste to scrap her...
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If ya feel that way about it then itl be a great result when you finish it. If if was me i wouldve weighed up the cost to repair such an item and the cost to start again.
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well atm ive managed to get her up and running without spending a penny thankfully. using tools i have and a little ingenuity.
but i will have to start spending to get parts for the superstructure
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if ya look on the internet for the alte liebe its a caldercraft tug boat. But i reckon you could make your own superstructure. If ya keep it simple/stupid for now and model the superstructure on say a graupner pollux or something. youl have to get some wood. in the end its gonna boil down to money, the necessity and the lack of it.
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yeah ive looked her up in the past ( i posted a pic of her original condition previously ) but my stepdad got annoyed that he couldnt get it to work, so he smashed it all up, then left her in the garden all winter...
lovely boke eh ?
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you get a different perspective of ya step dad once theyve split from your mum (i know) they seem t be allright in the end though. {:-{ funny the way things turn out
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not with this guy... i can co-exist with most people...but there is really no getting on with him at all...im just glad he's gone now
i cant wait till he has taken all of his stuff so i dont have to see him again
then i can store the boats in the shed lol
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Hi John,
Only just picked up your thread. I live just outside Lichfield in Hopwas and if I can be of any help just ask even though I am still learning myself. I'm a member at kingsbury model boat club and Burton. If you want to take a look at Kingsbury one Sunday morning I could always pick you up just send me a pm
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yeah, any help right now is a bonus. all the boats are now running ( albeit one needs a set of props ) but the main work will be building a whole new superstructure for the large tug.
which i feel is completly out of my depth having never attempted anything similar before
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also, after 5 mins of running around in the bath, the ESC got extreemly warm to the touch, is this a problem ? i dont want her cutting out or anything on the water :S
would a fan/ heatsync from a pc help to keep it cool ? or is it a sign that i should get a better ESC ?
originally she ran on 7.2V but after listening to advice i moved up to 9.6v
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Not bath,test tank lol.Check that your esc is rated for the voltage youre using. It should not get very hot.
What is the make? Try putting a fuse of the same or ideally slightly less than the rating of the esc in the
pos wire from the batt to the esc. Should it blow you are drawing too many amps. Sorry to hear youre still
having problems. John.
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yeah i just took the sticker off the ESC to find her rated at 8.4v so im overvolting it on 9.6v unfortunatly...so i guess id better stick with 7.6 for the smaller tug and get a bigger ESC for the Alte Liebe
or continue my attempts to resurect the original ESC ( unfortunatly no more clicking thus far )
what would happen if i was to continue to overvolt the ESC ? would it burn out ?
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dunno about running to much voltage but i had too bigger prop on my boat which made it over draw on amps. it resulted in lots of smoke!! And enough heat that if i had run into anylonger would have definately caught fire lol %% {-) definately recomend a fuze aswell. I bought this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SELF-STRIPPING-INLINE-STANDARD-BLADE-FUSE-HOLDER-QTY-2-/190537693592?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2c5cee7998
then bought a box of 30 mixed rated blade fuses for 99p at pound stretcher O0
if it was me as far as voltage is concerned i would just put the 7.2 back in better safe than sorry {:-{
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Sounds like your esc might be what is called a gold brick. The Hitec Esc. These definately do not like to be
overvolted. With any esc running in excess of spec could cause failure. Best not to exceed its limits as esc
are not that cheap. Good luck John.
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it is a 'gold brick' but its the only working ESC i have currently. ive emailed electronize about the larger ESC but they havent gotten back to me yet. unfortunatly no more sailing untill i can get the ESC issue sorted as im scared to have them burn out when a long distance from shore with no way to retreive it >_<
also got some large sheets of plywood to build the superstructre out of. mgiht be a bit thick, but £1 for 3 sheets 4ft square approx seemed to good to pass up
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If you wish you may find it better to ring electrolyse.Sadly model boats can fail out of easy reach. (sods law).
My padderler beached itself on a block of concrete today. Yes i knew it was there but thought as it was a
shallow draft boat id clear it. Wrong. Luckerly a long pole reached. To get back to the hitec esc.They are
very reliable but as said can not be overvolted keep to 7.2 v and all will be well. On the eletrolyse its worth
making sure that the sliding on off switch is ok. Ive had trouble with one. Just bridge across the terminals to
check. John.
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how thick is this wood lol
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UPDATE...
WE HAVE CLICKING FROM THE ESC
the motor instead of turning over emits a rather curious whine untill i push the stick up, then CLICK
also the plywood is 80cm x 80cm x50mm is this good enough ?
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50mm thick ?!? as in 2 inches lol sureley you mean 5 mm %%
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yeah i do. sorry typed at 1.20 in the morning...not that ive slept at all since then...but yeah
the clicking on the ESC is it changing from reverse into forward and back ( i think ) but ive still no moving probs
just different pitched wines from the motor >_<
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is it like a high squealing wistling sound?
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yeah, with increasing volume as i increase power but the pitch remains constant...this is the original ESC but not the original battery
original battery was a 12V 7.0aph lead acid battery
new battery is a 9.6v 4600mah Nimh pack but the battery will run the motor on the 7.2v ESC
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my esc makes that noise i think its normal. i found something on another site:
"Yes it is normal for ESC's to do this. The ESC turns the battery power to the motor on and off at a high frequency varying the time on called the duty cycle, called pulse width modulation. The motor acts like a speaker amplifying this sound. Each motor depending on it's construction will either amplify or attenuate this sound. If it becomes a pain in the ear then the only way to stop it is to either change the ESC to another brand or change to a different motor"
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but the issue isnt the noise...i dont mind the noise. its the issue of it not acually turning the motor at all its just making the motor make the noise in both the tugs...no movment...just noise >_<
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have you tested it on aother motor?
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yeah i tested it in both tugs...and a motor i have left over from a smashed up tank ( another of my stepfathers broken toys ) all produce the same annoying tone...but none of them spin the motor
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have you checked the battery?
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battery is fully charged, and it happens with all the 9.6v and the 7.2v batterys that i have ( i cant test the 12v battery as it only has one contact )
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Hi - to try and keep it dead simples for you and not to scare you off with all the technical stuff which you will get from the electrical wizards on here - hear goes ………
The hum or high pitched noise is coming from the motor windings on the armature.
As the speed controller switches the power on and off very fast, it makes the thin copper wire (which is wrapped around the centre armature) vibrate and just like a string on a musical instrument it makes a noise ….. simples
To stop it you can paint varnish or your wife's /your own nail varnish over the windings BUT NOT OVER THE COPPER PICK UPS AND BRUSHES but this means you have to dismantle the motor - easier to live with the noise I thinks.
aye
john
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but the motor(s) work with the other speed controllers...so i know they are fine...could i just be the damage to the ESC ?
easier to live with a non working ( but singing motor ) me thinks not ( no offence )
there is no motion, movment, spinning, rotating, or anything from the motor
it just plays that god awful tone... >_< it doesnt change in pitch...only in volume ( louder / quieter )
like playing the same note on an instument, just louder / quieter
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HI
Speed controllers that shall we say ‘work’ on a switching on/ off principle will have what is called ‘output transistors’ in them that control the switching on and off of the power and some do it faster than others - so the one that you are using at the moment with the these motors may be pulsing ore switching on and of just at the right frequency to make the wires vibrate it will only harm the motor and speed controller if you keep it doing it for a long time say hours
By the way what make of speed controller is it? Also is it an electronize one – if so, you may have a problem with the output transistor.
aye
john
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its is, i posted a pic of its condition earlier in the tread ( pretty poor and covered with rust unfortunatly ) ive emailed them with the problem coz someone mentioned that they mentioned they do repairs
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hi
by the look of that pic you have put on- there is a fair amount of corrosion on the circuit board and if it has not bean cleaned properly the chances are that it is shorting across the electrical tracks. Instead of relying on a email to Electronize; I would give them a ring on this number 01213087411 and try and speak to Dave (i think it’s Dave) explain in a nice way what is happening with the speed controller and that you are trying to keep every thing as an original in the model. This way you stand a better chance of getting it fixed for a small fee as the speed controller is a very old one.from about 1991/95
aye
john
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the cost to repair this thing would probably be higher than buying a new 1. or you could ebay a second hand one. theres a few about.
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I still think that a repair if possible will be cheaper than a new or secondhand. Depending on the model
you have a rheostat adjuster for possibly frequency and speed. Try using small screwdriver to adjust
them you may find the speed adj is set to low or freq needs a adj. John.
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hi there lilgoth89
I have just had another look at the pic of the speedcontroller and realise that it has a built in BEC on it. These are the 2 wires one orange and one red which come from the speed controller. They should have a switch on the end, but, some people like me are lazy and just twist the ends of the orangeand red wires together to switch the BEC on, on the speed controller.
If you have been trying to operate the speed controller with the BEC switched on and also using an RX battery plugged into your receiver, you will encounter a lot of problems. Try disconnecting the wires, if they are connected together, and running the set up with an RX battery plugged into the receiver.
However, I very much doubt that the above will cure your problems, looking at the corrosion in the photos.
This is a very early speed controller, pre-dating the speed controllers with a frequency adjusting pot built into them - the two pots on this circuit board control what is known as the deadband or the off position of the speed controller. The second pot controlls the speed range from very low to very high.
Some food for thought.
Dont forget to read your personal messages.
aye
john
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i think im going to have to throw in the towel on this one guys...i cant get anything out of the ESC even after ive cleaned it...all i can get it a whine or a buzz if i change the mode on the dials still no movement tho...
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have any of the other models got speed controllers? cars or planes etc?
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hello lilgoth
been reading your thread and must say, for a first timer you've done a sterling job getting your boats on the water, i'm very impressed mate
reference your ballast problems, i have used dried out sand (left for a few days to dry) in my tug boat, i built a balsa box (one for each side) filled up with sand then glued a lid on top of each one when i was happy with the water line
regards nick
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not that i can see. most of the cars are cheap RTR models with one circuilt board doing everything. while alot of the others are petrol ( so no ESC there either )
ive managed to find kind of speed controller. its manual and runs off a servo, im extreemly hesatent to use it as when its conneciton to the transmitter is lost the power servo stays where it is
meaning if she ever goes out of range, the throttles will be stuck on... and its only one speed so she'll be going full tilt all the time...
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Hi,lilgoth89
If you have a look in your personal messages there is an offer of some help with regards seeing if that speed controller can be fixed for you all it will cost is the postage but as they say its up to you
aye
john
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sounds to me that the ESC is actually ok, just the drive train is stuck
1/ disconnect the motor from the shaft.
2/ remove the propeller from the shaft
3/ remove any nuts from the propeller shaft,
this should then render the propeller shaft free.
4/ try to spin the motor using the ESC, if it spools up, thats good.
5/ try to hand turn the prop shaft.
if it turns freely, re connect the motor to the shaft, but be careful that any lock nut goes up against the coupling, NOT the prop shaft! once that is done, tighten the locknut against the shaft as TIGHT as you can. then, put the washer on the prop end, followed by the nut, followed by the propeller, then screw the lock nut up TIGHT against the propeller.
IF the propshaft is jammed solid, heat it up to melt the epoxy and remove it from the boat and replace it
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no the probshaft turns free..i even used it on one motor not connected to anything at all...
and i have no new PMs im affraid...
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right after along time away here comes an update
the alte liebe has her deck fixed ( it might not be perfect but it works )
her bumpers have also been ( loosely ) re-attached
weight is now kinda close ( saving weight for the new superstructure )
the iron duke now sails well ( although still in need of better ESC )
the Endless power just needs new props ( and eventually new electronics )
the bizmark ive no idea what to do with as she is inanely Overpowered
the speedboat works as always ( although eventually i would like to convert her to decent electronics )
still looking for anyone local who is good at woodwork to assist me in scratchbuilding a superstructure
doesnt have to be museum quality as long as it looks ok pottering around on the lake
ive also been givern a metal briefcase that ive converted to hold all my r/c gear when traveling to the lake
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Hi
Nice to see you back O0
Dave
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yeah its taken me ages to do anything coz ive been on and off in hospital
also had the boats locked up in storage while we had parts of the house redecorated ( was abit nervous about dust messing stuff up, my pc certanally sucked enough of it up <*<
and when i finally got them out of storage, the boating lake was frozen >>:-(
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Im glad that things are now getting better for you. Sorry to hear that youve been in Hospital. I hope you are now fine. It looks with the good weather coming you should be able to start sailing. Wish you well. John.