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Author Topic: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant  (Read 27488 times)

kno3

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Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« on: November 12, 2008, 10:17:50 pm »

Hello!

I bought a Cheddar steam plant and would like to restore it, because although technically in good shape, it looks pretty bad. The pictures show why: somebody has covered the boiler with wood strips and painted then everything with a thick black paint. The job was pretty careless, and several other parts got dirty too...
The steam engine is an old-style Cheddar oscillator with 2 cylinders, made from bronze castings. The red paint flakes off and will have to be removed.

I'd like to find out if the boiler is also made by Cheddar.
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2008, 10:32:19 pm »

I have dismantled the wooden cover and found a pretty interesting boiler design beneath: it has two removable lids at both ends. these were both inaccessible because the wooden strips had been glues over.
There is a large fire tube with diagonal 3 water tubes and another 4 fire tubes for returning the gases and exhausting up the chimney, which is at the same end as the burner.
The back of the boiler is insulated with a material I can't identify, looks like thick cardboard to me, but must be something fireproof. What could I to replace it with?

My biggest problem is how to get rid of those ugly black paint marks. Could you recommend a good paint stripper?
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 10:39:05 pm »

Started taking the engine apart for a thorough cleaning. Here are some pictures of the process and some of the cleaned parts.

By the way, is there a setting to make the pictures appear as icons?
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Proteus

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 12:18:48 am »

Have a look at this chap if you pm me ill give you his e-mail if you want .His name is Gerry Watson Ex cheddar guy will supply all the O rings and springs you need cheap
The boiler is cheddar return Flu type  they work well


Proteus


http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Clevedon-Steam
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 12:26:19 am »

Thanks!
Somebody else just gave me his e-mail and I wrote to him to enquire about a water gauge and safety valve.
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Proteus

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 06:21:08 am »

A note for anybody who has not played with steam and decides they are going to re build an old plant is to make shore you have marked all the parts so they go back together exactly the same as they came apart as they have all bedded in over the years and become very leaky if you put them back in the wrong places or even half a quarter turn out in the case of the bottom steam glands.
well thats what I have found anyway. O0
Proteus
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Martin (Admin)

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 07:30:06 am »

Hi Kno3,
This is all very interesting to even us none steam heads!


Quote
By the way, is there a setting to make the pictures appear as icons?
We used to have a setting for thumbnails but it just annoyed everyone to have to
keep clicking on picture to enlarge them so we abandon that idea.   :-))
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dreadnought72

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 08:48:14 am »

Removing paint?

Dunk it in Nitromors for as long as you like.
Don't get any on your skin - wear rubber gloves.
Rub the gloop off with a washing-up sponge when the paint's lifting.
Repeat as necessary.
Rinse.

Andy #1963#
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SteamboatPhil

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 09:21:42 am »

Hi Kno3, just a quick point in case you hadn't noticed, in the close up photo of the engine, the displacement lubricator is upside down !
Whoever had attacked the poor boiler with a yard broom and tar should be locked away. Keep up the good work.
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 10:55:20 am »

I don't think Nitromors is available in Germany, but thanks anyway.
Yes I have noticed the upside-down lubricator. And even more, the person from whom I bought it said he ran the plant like this, without a safety valve!!! I guess he felt lucky.
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Proteus

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 11:02:56 am »

try a brass wire brush for the boiler in a drill or a scotch Britte buffer, and if the paint is flaking on the engine the last one I did I used a blunt small screwdriver to scrape it off and a small brass polishing mop for finishing off . to re paint engine use Phoenix paints.

don't get any paint stripper in the boiler,


Proteus
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dreadnought72

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 11:22:56 am »

I don't think Nitromors is available in Germany, but thanks anyway.

Ah...I see it's probably illegal. There's been a ban for the last ten years in Germany relating to dichloromethane-based paint strippers.

It IS pretty powerful stuff.

Andy #1963#
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Circlip

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 11:50:41 am »

You could try carbonising the paint on the boiler with the CAREFUL use of a blowlamp flame and then dump the boiler into a supersaturated solution of Citric acid, That's made from Citric acid crystals dissolved in warm water until no more will dissolve, you can get them from a Chemist or Home brewing shop. (Citric acid is basically Lemon juice) After a period of dunking and scrubbing you can safely dispose of the solution by diluting further with water and pouring down the drain.
  Probably a bit late now but you haven't damaged/scratched any machined mating surfaces? John Bogstandard will tell you how to get them back.
 Regards   Ian.

  Sorry Malcolm forgot you are on here.
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bogstandard

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2008, 12:08:49 pm »

To me, what you have done is taken a potential bomb out of the hands of a dire idiot. Well done.

Steam is not to be treated lightly, but if looked after and treated with care (unlike this one) they are totally safe.

You have chosen a good classic there, and if you do the restoration correctly, you will never know it had ever been in the hands of someone who knew nothing about them, and will give you many years of pleasure.

Really, the only problem with the engine you are liable to come across, is where the conrods exit from the bottom of the cylinders, this area is prone to wear, as it takes all the forces of the engine thru it, and because there is no stuffing gland, it is liable to weep a little steam out of it. Nothing to really worry about, unless it is excessive, then it is just a matter of knocking up a couple of new ones out of bronze. I never had to do it to mine, but I have done the repair to others that were run without good lubrication. The piston rings take a couple of hours to bed new ones in, but once done, and again good lubrication, they should last a good couple of years, if not longer.

I am sure it will look like new by the time you have given it a bit of TLC.

Nice one.

John
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2008, 11:36:42 am »

Hi guys thanks for the input, a quick progress report:

I bought a can of gel paint stripper yesterday and had a go at the old paint. After painting it on all parts with a brush and leaving it for an hour or so, the paint just flaked off the engine bits. For finishing I only had to chip a few stubborn bits of paints in tighter corners with a toothpick. I'm very happy with the result.

The boiler needed a bit more work. The paint flaked off too, but a few marks still remained, I guess the had burned themselves in. So after washing the stripper away, I took a kitchen scrubbing pad (like scoth brite) and some liquid detergent for scrubbing kitchen sinks and had a go at it. The result is decent too. I'll post some pictures tonight.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 03:46:04 pm »

I can't believe someone would run a boiler without a gauge glass or a safety valve.  They really don't understand what the potential of these things are if abused.

You're doing a lovely job of bringing it back to life though and I bet you are going to end up with a lovely plant with many years of reliable running in it.

Excellent point by proteus though of putting things back exactly as they came apart.  That's the whole point of running these things in is to get the parts to bed together and match perfectly.

Good luck though, many thanks for the build thread, I'm looking forward to seeing what you are going to end up with.

Something you might want to try sometime is using very fine wet and dry for cleaning up surfaces.  You need a grade of about 2000, which you can usually get from automotive paint suppliers.  Use warm water and detergent and gently rub the surfaces clean.  You will find that a going over with a metal polish such as Duraglit or Brasso will then produce a very impressive shine. 

I do this with brass pipework after I have finished soldering fittings to it and annealling and bending it to shape and they come up very nicely.
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 06:03:23 pm »

Thanks for the advice. As Proteus said, I marked the cylinders before disassembly, and put the parts into separate cups to know which belongs where.

Now it's time for some new pictures. This is the paint stripper in action. Smelly and smearing everything, but it seemed able to do the job.
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 06:20:15 pm »

Here's the end result of several hours of cleaning and scrubbing, last night. I have assembled it but still haven't decided if I should leave it like this or paint some parts again. Yesterday, when I bought the stripper, I also bought some dark green paint for the engine, but now, seeing how good the metal looks after removing the old paint, I'm not so sure any more.
I am planning to insulate the boiler with some nice wood strip in a natural finish and the steam pipe with cotton thread, perhaps adding a superheater.
What would you suggest?

Before and after:
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Proteus

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2008, 07:19:56 pm »

That looks great what a difference , if you are going to paint it and want it to stay on think about Phoenix paints they do the right colour of Brunswick green and if you use there etch primer it will stay on

barbecue paint works for boilers, you can also get some lagging from the likes of Polly eng (Bruce) that can be put under the wood to stop it discoloring and to keep it cool on the out side, similar type of material that was in the end of the boiler to stop the flame overheating the back of the boiler.

Proteus

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Bernhard

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2008, 07:42:11 pm »

Hey,,,,,,you did a great job with this,,,,,,,Bot i sai Paint it ,,look more real......

regards Bernhard
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bogstandard

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2008, 08:01:46 pm »

Now you can see why these are such a nice engine to own. Just look at the quality of the investment base and standard casting.
I just wished I had bought a dozen sets when they were available as a machine your own kit.

Modern day Puffins aren't a patch on these. But to make something like this nowadays would most probably double the price.

You are doing a wonderful job of restoration.

John
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2008, 09:41:07 pm »

Guys, thanks.
@Bogstandard, you're right, the cast cylinders and base are very well made. I didn't think much of oscillators before, because many are made to be really cheap, thus poor quality, but after seeing these old Puffin engines in Bogstandard's pictures and elsewhere, I changed my mind. And then got lucky to spot this one on Ebay.

@Proteus, who is Polly eng (Bruce) ? Do you have a web address?

I'm still thinking about the paint. The green I bought is from automotive supply. I hope it's ok for the engine.
About the boiler, I reasoned that if I'm going to have it lagged in wood anyway, painting isn't really necessary, as only the copper ends will show, which could even be an interesting feature?

Now I need to find a suitable water gauge and safety valve for these weird Imperial threads. Before calling people who make such things new, I'd like to ask you if you happen to have such old Cheddar parts, or know anyone who does?

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bogstandard

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2008, 10:31:03 pm »

I notice that your engine is the later version, it has the extended rear crankpin and the extra drillings in the base. This is for fitting the custom engine driven water pump. In fact it was another little oscillator with a fixed 1/8" ram size. It was not designed for filling the boiler up on the run, that would cool the water too much, but to just put a drop in to stop the boiler going down too fast, with the excess being bypassed back to the water tank. With it fitted it was thought you could at least double the run time before topping up the boiler.
I modified my engine to take this pump, and it worked well, but found that really 45 to 50 minutes was too long for a steaming session and duly removed it.
I suppose I should really fit it back on, as the engine would be worth a lot more with it fitted.

The threads used on your boiler are standard Model Engineering threads, and are really a UK standard for boilers. I could measure mine if you want, just in case you could get someone to make them for you.

John
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kno3

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Re: Restoring a Cheddar steam plant
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2008, 11:02:03 pm »

Oh yes please do. Thanks for the kind offer.

And, by the way, since you seem to have no use for that pump, why not let me have it?  %)
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