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Author Topic: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman  (Read 66765 times)

red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #75 on: February 24, 2009, 11:51:05 PM »

Hi Ramon, well I am no nearer the water, been working (well watching!!) a good friend and skilled modeller sorting out another boat project for me! :embarrassed:

I have been working on the huntsman windscreen, its been very difficult, I didnt realize what a complex shape it is. The radius of the top of the screen, and bottom, are different, and the sides drop away, so lots of different angles going on >:-o

Started out with 2mm plastic sheet, tried heating it with a hairdryer, heater, gas ring and in the oven! all failed. Then tried Lexan. This bends far better, and treated myself to a heat gun yesterday. Pics attached are 2nd attempt. THe difference between soft, floppy, and too hot and bistered are very close. Its almost there, the dilemma now is what to do with the opening on the roof. I really dont want to lose such a big area by closing it off, but trying to come up with an idea to make it nice and tidy are elluding me. If I cant figure it out then its a new one piece roof and I lose the storage space, which would have been ideal for a sound unit
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2009, 11:37:30 PM »

It's looking very good PMD - nice finish on the decks and the sides - what paint did you use?

The screen is looking good despite your missgivings, are those extension inside the welldeck temporary or is that your intended method of fixing.
This is quite a 'nightmare' part to fix as per the full size.

I have finished the bottom rails off today and given it (the bottom) a couple of very thin coats of sanding sealer. While the hull is still upside down I have decided to prime, fill, etc this area ready to paint before tackling the top which will make this task easier than when the coamings etc are on.
I tested the P38 on a scrap of wood. Sticks like sticky stuff to the proverbial. Hopefully it will stay that way under the paint once the vibrations begin!

See what you mean about the cabin top. I'm hoping to make the whole area removeable from just in front of the screen - don't have anything concrete in mind how to do it just an idea

Anyone out there have any opinions on the closeness of the prop? (last posting)

Bye for now - Ramon
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #77 on: February 28, 2009, 11:04:23 PM »

Hi all,

The bottom is now finished and the rails have come up well but 'oh deah' I'm afraid I have made a real boo boo on the positioning of them. With the plan at my friend Peter's I put these on from memory but, looking through an old model boats plans book yesterday, and after the last coat of primer went on, there is the pic of the full size bursting through the spray showing very clearly that they all run parallel to the keel and not pulled in as you see.  :embarrassed: :embarrassed: The phrase 'Golly Gosh' sprang immediately to mind (or something very similar). I did consider removing them but have decided that they will have to remain as is - after all this is not meant to be anything but a scale like 'runabout'.



Before priming I spent some time getting the cabin sides fitted and the glazing holes cut out as well as mocking up the cabin top edging.





The insides have a had a couple of coats of thin epoxy which has gone on better than I'd thought so now it really is time to get the topsides built.

Back soon - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #78 on: February 28, 2009, 11:22:46 PM »

I'm afaid it's never going to be scale anyway, I've never seen a huntsman before that went eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee and left a nice pool of Nitromethane in it's wake...


And personally I prefer drawn in, like it was on the Spearfish. Just claim its a scale model of a  Cut'n'Shut job ;)
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #79 on: March 03, 2009, 10:15:52 PM »

Hi all - I'd like a bit of advice please.

Having looked at working on the topsides I think it would be best to get the radio and fuel tank installed before installing the cabin sides and coaming. This will allow me a little bit easier access and will  prevent me from probably ripping the coaming off accidently while working on it.

Looking at layout I think it would be best from a CG point of view to install the radio gear (batt, rx and throttle servo) in the forward cabin bay (the fuel tank is in the aft cabin bay just in front of the engine)
As this will create a long (mechanical) connection to the rudder I am looking at installing the rudder servo in a separate box closer to the rudder in the aft bay. This will mean a long servo connecting lead running past the engine.

Is this likely to create radio signal problems being so close to all that metal to metal whirring round?
What do you normally do with the aerial wire?

In the past I have installed a 'snake' outer running around the bows and 'push' threaded the aerial through this but that was on 27mhz and on a much smaller expanse of water. Would this be good enough for much further 'outings', say 500 - 1000 mtrs?

As always your advice would be appreciated

Regards - Ramon

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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #80 on: March 03, 2009, 10:26:39 PM »

Best to put all the radio gear in one box, see about 2 pages back my posting with a metal tin in it. Get yourself one of those. The fuel tank should be on the centre of gravity, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, putting it off centre will change the CoG as it runs along, and will create some very strange handling...
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #81 on: March 03, 2009, 11:04:50 PM »

Hi Ramon, nice work, coming along  :-))

Mine is electric, so c.o.g and weight are different, using a 700bb graupner motor. I intend to use 2 nimh packs, either side of the motor, and will be using a turborix (look on the electric section, recent posts) 2.4 set eliminating the aerial wire, however, I did run the model prior to refurb briefly on 40mhz., and ran the aerial wire from centre section to stern, then up the inside of a hollow flag mast.

I would suggest not too much weight in forward cabin, you will want it to "plane", its quite a heavy old girl when completed, so the bow needs to be light.

Now, I have taken a big step backwards, the cabin roof was really annoying me, so its been removed, to be replaced with a new one, and no "hole" in the centre. I intend to gain access by having a removeable panel on the inside bulkhead, which will pull out like a shelf, this will have access then to esc, etc. The paint is plasticote aerolsol. I painted it almost a year ago (its taken that long :(() but I have noticed that there is signs of minor cracking on cabin sides, so I have decided to rub it back to wood, and apply glass cloth and light resin, I would hate to finish the boat then the cracking reappears, so its a bit frustrating to say the least!.

As for the screen, I intend to use some of that extra inside the cabin sides to secure it, so if it gets damaged, or for any other maintenance, it can be removed easily, and not a permanent fixing. Have not yet worked out how to secure the front of the screen!
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #82 on: March 04, 2009, 11:55:48 PM »

Hi guys thanks for the response.
Andy, I had not forgotten your tip on these boxes but as I remarked at the time there is not really enough room in the aft area to fit one.
I have considered the CG question in my thinking. I'm not sure if it shows it on the plan (still with Peter) but I would hazard a good guess that it will be in the area of that main cabin bulkhead possibly just ahead of it. With the engine sitting just aft of this the fuel tank (600cc) will be on the forward side of it running lengthways between the two bulkheads. I can see that a diminishing tank will have some influence on trim but with it's closeness to the assumed CG I would think that the effect will not be too noticeable.

Like wise with the R/C gear. If I put it in the aft end bay not only will it be near the intended position of the silencer but all the weight of the 'hardware' other than the fuel tank will be on the aft side of the CG. This could then mean having to put ballast in to get the trim right. However if it does turnout a bit bow down with the gear in the front
then I'm certain a much smaller amount of ballast will be required.

I'm still concerned about signal noise being picked up by a long servo lead going past the engine so does anyone have any thoughts on this - FLJ? et al (I'm okay with sticking bits of wood together and getting the paint on but when it comes to radio  ???????????{:-{ {:-{)

Your resilience in face of adversity never fails to impress PMD.
What a shame about the paint. As a matter of interest what did you use as a substrate. The reason I ask is that some time ago I had a similar disaster on three model aircraft all painted at the same time with the same brand of paint. I had used normal cellulose sanding sealer followed by a cellulose dope and talcum powder mixture - a long time tried and tested combination of filling the grain - with the substrate smooth the top coats (car 'cellulose' aerosol) went on without a hitch. I was really pleased with the smooth, glossy finish until about three weeks later when I noticed some crazing under the fuel proofer had taken place. Further  investigation showed all three were identical -every surface covered with micro cracks, crazed just like a Chinese vase. It was some time later that I read in a model magazine of the incompatibility of acrylic based paints over a cellulose base. I checked the aerosols and they were indeed acrylic based. It appears that cellulose is flexible even after quite some time (weeks) but acrylic isn't - something has to give and it's the acrylic! I have never mixed the two since and never had the problem re-occur and I have had need to put some time in on finishing on some of those aircraft! Of course cellulose products are not so available now but I do have a good stock - certainly enough for a couple of boats. It'll be a whole new learning curve with the new stuff if I ever get round to needing to use it.

Nothing done today - have to get this gear in first - back some time later - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #83 on: March 05, 2009, 03:36:47 PM »

Oh yes, so you did...

Would it not fit in widthways? And you dont have to have just one tank, via a plumbers van assortment of pipes, you can have 2 or 3 in there, probably best with a float chamber for 2.

Andy (the forgetful one...) :-))
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red181

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #84 on: March 05, 2009, 04:14:37 PM »

Hi Ramon, I think I used Halfords primer, and later found out that this product, and Plasticote, are not compatable. On another boat, the glass cloth and light resin seems to have eliminated any crazing and cracking problems, so hopefully this will cure it :-))
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2009, 09:20:19 AM »

Morning guys,

I'm afraid it wont Andy, not enough depth at the aft end and would sit far too high in the hull at the bow to get reasonable pushrod runs plus of course i would be back to that long run to the rudder arm. No, a purpose built ply box(es) has to be the way to go. I shall seal them with a perspex plate which should keep them dry but the question still remains :

Is the long servo lead running past the engine likely to pick up any signals from the movement - I really would like to be sure before I go down this route - failing that its going to have to be 'suck it and see'.

Compatibility is certainly the key word PMD, at one time I would go down the route of the least expensive ie use cheaper, non reccommended thinners for instance. After some pretty disappointing finishing disasters on finishes that were 'important' the thinking changed somewhat and now I'm a firm believer in keeping finishing materials uniform throughout. I have spent an awful lot of time on 'finishes' in the past and all that work can so easiliy be lost by one wrong coat. When that happens its a real pit of the stomach feeling!

With regard to glass cloth I have used very successfully on several models the very lightweight cloth (.6oz sq mtr) applied using Ripmax 'Tufcote' fuel proofer. This two pack resin is rather thick for the task intended but is perfect for this application. Once cured it lives up to it's name and is extremely durable. I have never experienced any cracking using it in this form. The real benefit of using this is that it cures to 'handlability' within twenty  to thirty minutes but the unused resin in the jar, unlike epoxy or polyester will remain fluid and useable for 2-3 hours if not longer and even more if kept in the fridge!. I lay the cloth, which is very fine indeed, over the area and gently paint the Tufcote on spreading it outwards from a central point. A second coat can be applied within 45 mins and left overnight is easily cut back with wet and dry (wet). Left any longer you soon realise it lives up to its name as sanding is much harder. It takes cellulose well if left to cure a few days. I have never had and subsequent finishing problems over this substrate.

I believe this was originally a floor finishing product which probably explains its non cracking properties and its durability.

I don't want to commit heresy but I do have one or two pics of the finished items but an aircaft on MBM? HMMM! I'm not so sure!

All the best - Ramon

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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2009, 10:32:33 AM »

I would think that running the lead should create some electronic interference, and would probably stuff the electronics in the servo up. Way around this is to put the servo in the radio box, and to use Sullivan Snakes to connect to the the throttle. These need to be connected to something (ie the bottom or sides) of the hull to sop them from bending around everywhere. I once had a plane that lasted 2 flights, because the metal pushrod going into the carb was vibrating in the silghtly larger hole in the throttle lever. It smashed in nose first at well over 100mph, and there wasn't an awful lot left...
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2009, 10:37:54 PM »

Though you might like to see the current state of play. It's been a bit slow of late - I can't say that fitting the radio gear was particularly absorbing - infact a bit of a mental conflict - but now it's done it's back on with the build.

I took the hull over to the guy's at the local water - unanimous opinion was that the CG would be around 30/33% from the transom. (Now that is a bit alien to an aeromodeller!! %%.) so as you see Andy, the gear is now in the aft bay with the throttle servo remote. No one thought the servo lead would pick up any interference so it's very much a case of suck it and see.

Because of the central engine the drive position will have to entail some artistic licence. I'm going to cut out the bulk of the main bulkhead and then cover it with 1/16th ply - this will provide a 'hold down' for the engine cover and get rid of some un-neccessary weight.
Hopefully the cabin sides will be on by the end of the week.

Regards - Ramon











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David H Alderton

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2009, 01:04:11 PM »

Hi,  I am David Alderton - congratulations on building a Fairey Huntsman.  I also built a scale model  72" and put a 35cc petrol engine in it.  I raced it at Torquay and won the Challenge Shield of Great Britain back in the 80s.  This was a long time ago, I now build radio controlled sailing ships - Pilot cutters etc.  If you have any questions re making,  just get in touch.  Regards  David
 
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #89 on: March 27, 2009, 11:05:34 PM »

Hullo David, Thanks for your interest and kind offer. Can I assume that was a 72" Huntsman? If so that must have been quite a beast. Do you have any photo's of it you can post? as I'm sure there would be quite a few of us who would be interested.

Well finally the sides are on and it now looks like a boat :-)
I've had a good week on it and there is just that cabin top to do then the finishing / fitting out can begin.

PMD - How is yours coming along? Any joy with that cabin roof?  I have decided to cut slots down into the top of the cabin middle former and then laminate the edges of the removable top frame against the inside of the existing edges. With formers at each end and mid way I intend to plank the top surface diagonally with two layers of 1/32 x 1/2in. ply strips. By doing it diagonally it should present an equally rigid edge all round. Hopefully if the masking is adequate it will not stick itself too firmly in situ and prove a total embarrasment!!!

Whatever, we shall see, in the meantime here's the latest progress

Laminating the outer edges of the cabin


Finished result - very strong


At last the second side is on


The fixed area for the windscreen to sit and the 'break' of the removable top





Have to take a break from it for a week or so but back soon with the cabin top and planking the well deck.

Bye for now - Ramon
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Sea Commander

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #90 on: April 02, 2009, 08:46:56 PM »


Hello!

 Just to say I really enjoyed reading this thread. Can I say that the standard of work that you are doing is just great and very pleasing to see. It's a lovely boat and brings back memories of 30 years ago when I was running a Sea Commander.

 Keep up the great work & best of luck with it

 Cheers

 Mark
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #91 on: April 02, 2009, 11:59:15 PM »

Hello all,
Despite intending to take a break from this I couldn’t stop thinking about tackling that cabin top so everything else that ‘interferes’ has been given the back seat. It has gone much better than anticipated so I hope it will prove of interest

Firstly though, thank you for your kind words Mark, I’m glad you are enjoying the thread. They come as I was beginning to wonder if there was any interest. Lots of viewers I see so I guess if you are that ‘ten percent of ten percent’ there must be at least another hundred of you  ;).
Perhaps I should reiterate what I said at the start - this is my first power boat for thirty odd years and this was to share the build with others. Hopefully to have any errant ways picked up by those far more experienced and also to give encouragement to those who may be considering tackling something similar.

Onto that cabin roof then. Some time back when wondering about how to mould a piece of ply over the compound curves involved FLJ remarked about planking. I felt this would be the best option but immediately thought ‘as an aeromodeller’ and visualized longitudinal planks most of which would have to be tapered.

I was still on this line of thought last week when I was laminating the cabin side rails when I laid a strip of wood over to check the ‘fairing’. Laying it diagonally, the penny dropped and as mentioned it was obious that unlike longitudinal planking it would give the edges equal strength all round.
Though aware of the technique I have never used this method before but any concerns were soon dismissed - I have to say how impressed I am with it and am really pleased with the result  :-)).The adoption of the curves involved, the apparent immense strength and the lack of ‘spring’ as the clamps were removed. Little wonder it was (is?) used in full size construction.

I laminated the support rails inside the cabin top rails with 1/64 ply shims in between, fitted two central formers and two stringers. Once this was set it was faired to the cabin sides then removed. The cabin sides, front and rear edges were then masked using selotape and the frame then replaced using the shims again to keep it in the correct position. Clamped at the rear and forward bulkheads the top was planked with two laminations of 1/2" wide 1/32 ply. It was time consuming but by the same token relatively quick. I used the Titebond 3 glue which gives an incredibly quick grab time for a PVA glue but the limitation was the available clamps!!

Here are a few pics which should explain all.

Laminating the support rails. The ply shim was pushed down before planing fair


Setting the rear frame former


Frame faired and stringers fitted


First layer of planking. Incidentally that coloured clamp - 'Soft' pegs - 2 quid for ten - Tesco's - brilliant!


Faired off all round.



A start has been made on finish planking the well deck - more on that later so back soon when thats finished

Regards - Ramon
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craftysod

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #92 on: April 03, 2009, 02:46:50 PM »

Dont worry Ramon.
I am still watching this thread with interest,and admiring your woodworking skills
Mark
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #93 on: April 07, 2009, 10:40:36 PM »

Hi All,

I'm pleased to say that apart from gluing on the fixed part of the cabin roof (I need to sort out the roof catches before I can do that) the major construction is complete :-)

The next stage is the 'fiddly bits' and some basic 'tarting it up' to make it look a bit scale like - handrails, edging strips, cabin door etc then its on to the finishing. I'm hoping to have it in the water by the end of May at the latest but you know the score -- best laid plans and all that.

The well deck planking went very well - I used 9mm wide .8 thick mahogany interspersed with 1mm thick lime strips (these were cut from 5mm wide stock to apx 2.5 wide with a scalpel). Using Zap very thin cyano I glued the centre plank down first then, holding the 1mm strip tight against it with the next plank along, cyano was run down the outer edge allowing capilliary action to take it under the plank to 'grab' the lime strip. No 'pullouts' occurred when planing or sanding the strips down which must mean this worked! I did have an awfully cyanoed thumb and forefinger by the time it was done though :D

As can be seen the aft deck slips under the inner transom plate.




The forward half of the well deck is another hatch which covers the engine bay. Again the forward edge of this slips under the 1/16 overlay glued to the main bulkhead, the rear edge laying just over the forward edge of the aft deck


The central cover immediately over the engine is also removable but because this pushes tight against the main bulkhead the hatch cannot lift and is firmly held down. How this will work with the ever present vibration remains to be seen!


The whole hatch is removable to allow access for starting.


I have to say that none of this was carefully planned, it just evolved as it went along but it did involve a fair degree of cut and try. I hope it will stand up to the rigours of I/C power.

That's it for a while as a holiday is looming so I think a break is called for before the final fitting out and painting

Back soon - Ramon

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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #94 on: May 11, 2009, 11:02:59 AM »

Hi all, holiday soon over, SWIMBO's 'canya' list caught up with, a bit (too much) of gardening catch up and I finally managed to get back onto the boat ;).

I felt that before I could move on the problem of the windscreen attachment needed resolving. First thought was to do this in one piece but having obtained a piece of 2mm acrylic sheet large enough it was obvious that this would be much too thick and difficult to work. Taking a good look at some pics of the full size it appears that the screen was possibly made from four parts - left and right front screen and two side screens. I decided to go for a two piece combining the side screens with each front half joining them behind the short mast. This would mean that readilly available, albeit in A4 size, clear plastic sheet could be used. Searching though the 'Squires' catalogue revealed they do a crystal clear PETG sheet in four thicknesses. I choose 1mm which should be flexible enough for the bending involved but rigid enough for the job in hand. I haven't cut it yet so can't at this stage confirm its suitability but it is cyrstal clear and quite flexible.

To get the shape a cardboard approximation was cut out and trimmed until satisified. This was then transferred to .8mm (1/32) ply with the grain vertical which was then fine trimmed to fit. The central housing was made from ally (though this could easilly be made from three layers of ply) and fitted to the mast previously glued in postion. (This was also bolted from underneath with a 4BA bolt running up into the mast).

As the pics show, using the flexible plywood was a good way of getting the correct shape without having to use the windsreen sheeting. It also allowed the fitting of a beading which the screen pushes against - maybe not quite 'scale' but reasonably asthetic.

Fitting of the initial  ply templates



The final templates and the screen material


Finished and ready to fit the screen proper



Beading and fitting on Stbd side


I feel the two worst 'worrying' parts are now over (cabin roof and screen) so the remaining 'fiddly' bits should progress fairly quickly.

Incidentally, I ordered the PETG sheet from Squires around 10-ish one day and it arrived by first post the following day. If the order is over a tenner then it's post free - now that's what I call a good service - no connection, just very satisfied :-)
Bye for now - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #95 on: May 11, 2009, 04:23:58 PM »

I was wondering where you had got to, nice to have you back :-))

I was rather shocked the other week to find that HP are still trading, under the barnd name of Mecoa, and from what I can see are still producing the old engines.
http://www.mecoa.com/hp/index.htm

Can't wait to see it on our lake ;)
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Ramon

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #96 on: May 11, 2009, 10:31:54 PM »

Hi Andy, Yep still about just been a bit distracted from the task in hand.

Checked the site out but can't seem to open the 'detail' pages. When I click on any thing specific just takes me back to the top of the page.
Just as well I suppose probaly cost an arm as the pound now is.

Thanks for the subtle reminder of that invitation - haven't forgot, it's a fair trek though so may have to fit in with something else.

Regards - Ramon
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andyn

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #97 on: May 11, 2009, 10:49:03 PM »

Hmm it does that to me too. Mind you if you look at the top of the page it says under construction, they probably just havent finished it yet.

If found Mecoa to be reasonably cheap actually, they're far cheaper than CMB for a start.
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tigertiger

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2009, 02:46:09 AM »

***Topic split****
Mr Fid's fast boat now has its own thread
In the Race Leisure and Sports Boats section
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The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

Mr_Fid

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Re: 1/8 scale Fairey Huntsman
« Reply #99 on: June 06, 2009, 07:40:49 AM »

Hello Ramon

I tried my best to wind you up by posting pictures of my very nearly finshed Miss CC but it has failed as it has been moved to it's own post!

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17305.0

Hopefully it should all be ready for the top secret test run next Wed night!

Regards Martin
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