Topic: Magazine article Database? (Read 14075 times)

Bryan Young · « **on:** February 05, 2009, 06:37:17 pm »

I have "Model Boats" (and its earlier incarnations) going back to the 1950s. It is extremely difficult to find a particular item /article or subject without spending hours wading through the contents pages. Is there a reasonably cheap program available to enable me to make a cross-referenced data base for all this guff? I don't mind putting in the hours setting it up if it saves me weeks of searching in the future.....and doing it during this cold spell is another bonus. I'm sure other members could benefit from this as well as me.
Cheers. BY.

chingdevil · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2009, 06:45:12 pm »

Bryan

Why not make up an excel spreadsheet with hyperlinks to all the articles in a particular edition you could include a short entry to tell you what the article was about. Saves having to buy database software

Brian

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2009, 06:48:36 pm »

The Open Office suite has a database included. Not sure if you can download it on its own though.

http://openoffice.3-suite.com/index.asp?aff=105&camp=gg_op_uk&se=google

Colin

toesupwa · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:24:09 pm »

Model Boats magazine have talked about doing a complete 'index'...

http://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=1004

But nothing has come of it.... yet..

dougal99 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:33:32 pm »

If you just want a list that can be readily searched Excel will do the business. However, if you want something more fancy the Open Office database is free but has a fairly steep learning curve. Most Windows based computers come with Microsoft Works already loaded. This has a database application. If you have it take a look. (I haven't tried it myself so I can't recommend it).

HTH

Doug

dreadnought72 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 05, 2009, 08:54:58 pm »

Bryan, do you have any flavour of Microsoft Office on your PC?

If so - then "Access" would work really well. This is a database programme with loads of bells and whistles. Whilst it's not "obvious" in terms of generating the basics of a database, the hard work is in terms of plugging in the data. If you like, (and if you have Access) then I'd be more than willing to do the "front end" stuff if you're up for going through every mag and sticking in the info.

You'd be able to search by boat type, designer, size, scale, period - all sorts. If you're interested, please feel free to drop me a PM.

Regards,

Andy

tigertiger · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:06:30 am »

I could be wrong, I think Access is only on MS Office Pro.

For one of the boat magazines I have seen a list of every issue and its contents.
A sort of Master Index. Sorry I cannot remember if this is MMI or MB, but it is on the mags website.
If it is for the one you want it will make your job much easier, as you will not need to go through every mag by hand, this could save you a lot of time and energy.

A great idea Bryan, and one that would be appreciated by others I am sure.

tigertiger · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:09:32 am »

As an aside. There are two American mags (one discontinued) that have every copy printed available on CD.
I think one may be Ships in Scale. Complete sets about 10 000 pages for $73 on 2 discs.

Now that is smart thinking. I wish MMI and MB would do this.

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #8 on:** February 06, 2009, 06:28:06 am »

Hi Bryan,this is a GREAT idea and one I've desired for many years, a fully comprehensive Model Boat Article central resource.
Now with the internet and we're really smart, we could do this ourselves and all contribute to the project!

If we will need to agree on a set of desirable information to build a "relational" database but we can decide on the mechanics
later (database, spreadsheet, webpage, etc.) but what information do we need? I tender:

Article name;
Article Type; (plan, kit review, construction, how to, club, modeller, real ship, New product, Tools, etc, etc.)
Article Tag line; ( Jim Bloges visits HMS Victory Portsmouth, etc )
Article subdivision; (electric, steam, radio, batteries, sports boat, yacht, canal boat, etc, etc.)
Names; (Writer, Builder, Ship, Club, location, etc, etc.)
Issue; ( Year, month, No, Page)
Search Words; (Liberty, Kort, Brushless, planking, etc, etc.)

So typically someone could email in the following "record";

Blue Bird II - Construction - Charles builds a classic motor yacht from MMI plans - Plans build - Charles Sells - Malcolm Campbell - MMI, Feb, 2009, p42 - MAR2904, Goole Shipbuilding Co, Dunkirk, Chelsea, Baudoin, Colberg, Bob Sheila Harvey-George, plank-on-frame, twin motors.

I could find a way of setting this up but only if enough Mayhemers are willing to contribute their time on effort.
Doesn't have to be a full time job, just sending in one "record" a week would be enough to get it going.
Setting up a database is a tricky prospect as it has to be got right at the outset and I'm willing to do that...
BUT it's up to you....... ... is this worth perusing? Who's on-board?

tigertiger · « **Reply #9 on:** February 06, 2009, 07:26:46 am »

A great idea to extend Bryans initiative, Martin.

We would also need to think of a way of avoiding duplication (or even multiplication) of effort, especially for more recent articles.

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #10 on:** February 06, 2009, 08:41:36 am »

Bryan, I think most of it has been said but I would definately recommend a data base. The best is Access but it only comes with Office Pro so not quite as readily available.

A freeware database application such as open office would be the next best bet and probably do what you want very well.

XL would do the job and be searchable but nothing like the slick interface of a data base.

I have played around putting data bases together in the past so I did get a feel for what is required and whilst there is a bit of learning involved the benefits are well worth it. I would start off by having a play around with a sample data base and see how it is put together and possibly how you can hack around an existing one.

Having lived with the results over many years of a multitude of people putting information into a data base, I'm not the greatest fan (ships planned maintenance data base). I realise that it can spread the work out but it leads to inconsistencies and can mean nearly as much work editing it all afterweards to get it consistent.

Seaspray · « **Reply #11 on:** February 06, 2009, 08:43:13 am »

Yes in would be nice to have, but being not too much into computers I would still like it and try and put some info on it. I put most of the builds on to word then to PDF files which is good for me. I have the time at the moment to do this. But ready data base would be the thing.

barriew · « **Reply #12 on:** February 06, 2009, 08:48:44 am »

Martin,

If you do use Access ( or any other relational database) it would be relatively easy to add additional fields once you got going. I have done this several times when I had a proper job. Also, isn't there an option to make a 'complied' version of the your Access database so that it will run without having the Access program on your PC - a bit like the pps powerpoint files?

Having a copy of Access (2 in fact) I would offer to do the design work, but will not be around for the next 8 weeks.

Barrie

Tester · « **Reply #13 on:** February 06, 2009, 09:10:32 am »

MMI have a neat search page for all their back issues and articles on this page...

http://www.marinemodelmagazine.com/search/search.aspx?cid=3852

Hopefully MB will do the same at some time.

Richard

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #14 on:** February 06, 2009, 09:48:57 am »

A little bit too much enthusiasm here for my liking! Databases are very deceptive creatures. They are like a steeply shelving beach - one moment you are splashing about in the shallows, the next you are in over your head and drowning. As part of my old job I spent 20 years designing, maintaining and developing a PC network based property management and accounting system which is still in use. I was also heavily involved in converting much of the data to the heavyweight SAP system which my misguided employers decided to buy.

This would be a relatively simple application but the fact that you can easily get hold of a package and throw a few fields together certainly doesn't guarantee success. If it did it would have been done long ago. I have looked at the possibility of cataloguing Model Boats articles on several occasions and come to the conclusion that life is too short! That is not to say that it can't be done, only that a lot more effort is required than you think, and I'm not just referring to wading through all the issues and typing in the material. Martin may have got the basic field structure more or less right but a good deal more work would be needed to correctly identify which data should be placed in them. The relationship between article type and subdivision is a particular hazard. What is a type and what is a subdivision? Might be hard getting agreement there. And then you will find that on each of those levels you have an article that falls into more than one heading which you can't normally have in a hierarchical database. A lot of data analysis is involved including applying what is termed third normal form. (Google it). The keyword facility gets around this to some extent but you must have a standard set of keywords, you can't just make them up as you go along and there will be an awful lot of them so you may need a separate sub database to hold them with the same issues I've just described for the main one.

A simple word search could be a further alternative but would only really work properly if you have the text of the full articles held in the system which realistically ain't gonna happen.

Then comes the question of how do you distribute and maintain the database? You can't rely on all the "customers" having the same database software as you do so you need to send it out as a standalone application which can be installed on any PC (or Mac?) which usually entails buying the developer edition of the database package which can be expensive. Then of course, the thing goes out of date every month as a new edition of the magazine comes out so how do you keep the customers up to date. Maybe by setting up a download on the Web as is done for virus updates. More complexity and expense. Or maybe you just host the whole thing on line and make a charge for using it so you are setting up a business which the taxman will take an interest in.

It's not that I am trying to pour cold water on the suggestion

, I'm just making the point that a project like this can spiral out of control very easily indeed and end up as a crash and burn, just like a lot of other IT projects. I know Model Boats have looked at doing this themselves several times but decided that it's just too expensive.

The MMI offering appears to be just a simple search facility operating on article headings and a brief description of the article. Certainly a lot better than nothing but of only limited application to the sort of research that I think Bryan was originally driving at. For example I put in the word lathe and nothing comes up at all! Put in "fitting" and you get nothing, use "fittings" and you get some hits but if you wanted to look up windlass, capstan or davit forget it, the MMI system isn't designed to do that. The search appears to be entirely dependent upon how the article was described which can be very hit and miss.

Colin

tigertiger · « **Reply #15 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:12:21 am »

Quote from: Colin Bishop on February 06, 2009, 09:48:57 am

The MMI offering appears to be just a simple search facility operating on article headings and a brief description of the article. Certainly a lot better than nothing but of only limited application to the sort of research that I think Bryan was originally driving at.

Now this was about the limit what I thought practical. And this can be done easily on MSExcel.
Actually, in a practical sense, Excel 6 onwards is just as powerful and flexible as early databases were.

As you say Colin, you have to limit the scope. Otherwise it quickly can get bigger than Ben Hur.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #16 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:21:04 am »

Very true TT and it's handy for the "I'm sure I saw an article on that last year" sort of query but it wouldn't meet the sort of data retrieval that Bryan has in mind going back to the year dot. There is in fact a huge amount of valuable information in those very old Model Boats/Model Maker issues but simply cataloging it would be a huge task, never mind setting up the database structure.

Colin

tigertiger · « **Reply #17 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:25:33 am »

Perhaps another reason why I wish MMI and MB would put everything on disc.

At least then you can do a word search. Unless it is merely a scanned image. And not scanned text.
Hey sent it to China, get students to do it for a summer job, they can re-type it all in.

BlueWotsit · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:28:24 am »

One other factor as well concerns "input" consistency.

Years of working with databases I have seen an immense range of inputs that affect search routines - people adding fullstops, using tab keys rather than enter keys to switch between fields, entering in capitals or only lowercase and of course spelling of words.

Not an easy task for multiple involvement - perhaps better to keep on at the magazine publishers.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #19 on:** February 06, 2009, 10:30:56 am »

Quite right Bluewotsit - on the Model Boats website MyHobbyStore is spelt at least three different ways...

Colin

Seaspray · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2009, 11:38:03 am »

They are taking all the apostrophes out of road signs cause it upsets the satnavs or something .I can see the problems with regards to the above replies

malcolmfrary · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2009, 12:47:16 pm »

Some of the mags carried a back numbers index - it should be possible to scan these in at high definition and use some OCR software to convert to text that could be used in WP docs. Any extra information could be put in by hand.
MS Office (expensive but comprehensive), MS Works (often bundled, but limited), Open Office (comprehensive, and FREE for those who bother to download it or buy a mag like PC Advisor with a disk) all have applications that will do the job.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2009, 01:05:36 pm »

Following on from Bluewotsit's comment, you would need to have data validation routines to control the input. For example keywords would be matched agaist a standard list and an error flagged up if not found, it would also be possible to select the keyword rather then type it in. Things like upper and lower case can be dealt with within the software. But all this means that you are designing an application rather than just a simple database. The old adage in IT "garbage in, garbage out" certainly applies.

So it would seem that you could either have something simple like MMI which is only of quite limited use or something more comprehensive which would take a lot of work to set up but would be a proper research tool. You pays your money and you takes your choice as usual.

I am rather reminded of when we set the Trader Directory up on Mayhem, a simple concept but almost as many ideas on how to go about it and what it should contain as there were members at the time - OK I exaggerate but the point is valid.

Colin

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:28:39 pm »

Yeah well while you guys have been hosing everything down, I've done this:

The ultimate Model Boat Articles database!
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?key=p-pFMmND7Cl7ZHGb_KzKEMg&hl=en

Results can be seen here:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=p-pFMmND7Cl7ZHGb_KzKEMg

Yes I know it full of holes but point out the obvious errors and anything I've missed and we can take this forwards.

Tester · « **Reply #24 on:** February 06, 2009, 02:57:00 pm »

Nice one Martin

Added the Footy feature from Richard Webb but the input fields don't seem to match up with the results view as I read the hints next to the fields and didn't check with the results view.

Should be easy to use with a bit of practice

News:

Author Topic: Magazine article Database? (Read 14075 times)

chingdevil