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Author Topic: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed  (Read 23099 times)

Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #50 on: January 24, 2011, 02:17:04 PM »

OK have fitted noise suppression gear, hooked everything up and charged the batteries. I have a separate receiver battery and have remembered to cut the BEC wire. The rudder servo responds to controls, although will need setup and adjustment to get it right for the water (and only responds to up/down plane not left/right). The ESC LEDs flash for a couple of seconds (set-up phase during which I move throttle forward as per instructions) but then when LEDs stop flashing there is a high pitched noise from the motor but prop does not turn (prop is not obstructed and can be turned by hand) nor does it respond to throttle inputs. Next step is to do a search on here to see what might be causing it.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #51 on: January 24, 2011, 02:32:25 PM »


Hi Boz

When you move the throttle to full ahead, do you then move it to full astern  during the set up procedure ?  This would complete the set up.

Regarding the up/down movement of the rudder, you have probable used the wrong slot on the R/X. Try then slot next to it.

Also does it work on the BEC line as this would save you a battery.

Regards

ken

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LarryW

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #52 on: January 24, 2011, 02:42:08 PM »

hi boz .  nice model tried to get copy of plan on web link , but no longer av able, is there copy any wear else ........ Larry w.
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #53 on: January 24, 2011, 02:50:23 PM »

Larry,

I have seen them for sale on ebay etc. When you say weblink do you mean here: http://www.myhobbystore.com/product/21172/mm-718-slalome ? It is still listed as available.

Regards,

Boz
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #54 on: January 24, 2011, 02:55:34 PM »

Ken,

I should have explained more fully - yes I do move it all the way forward and then all the way back during ESC setup procedure as per instructions but no reaction from throttle inputs at all - even after setup completed. High pitched noise from motor remains until I turn the ESC off. At least I know current is getting to motor and the RC gear works, but might have wrong channel set on Tx or some other schoolboy error. This is my very first time doing this. It is a Futaba 2.4gHz designed for aircraft and is quite complex to set up for a novice and I think re-reading of instructions is required.

Regards,

Boz
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LarryW

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #55 on: January 24, 2011, 03:23:03 PM »

hi    try another slot ,with radio on,  and try a different  stick mix and  wining could be you are to close to model, or Aerial on model to close to running gear,  also do forget centre trims. Larry
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2011, 03:55:00 PM »

Hi Larry as you and Ken suggested I played around with slot and stick mix and I now get a change in the tone of the noise coming from the motor when I move the throttle, which suggests that the throttle inputs are being received by receiver and  relayed to motor by the ESC and there is power getting to the motor. However, the propeller does not turn, although it can be turned by hand.

Boz
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2011, 03:56:15 PM »

I wonder if your problem could be mode-related?

Radio control sets for aircraft are designed either:

Mode 1 - elevator/rudder on left stick, throttle/ailerons on right stick   

or Mode 2 - throttle/rudder on left stick, elevator/ailerons on right stick.

If you have plugged a rudder servo into the receiver socket marked 'rudder', you must use the left stick to control that, and depending on mode, the right or left stick for throttle....
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2011, 04:14:28 PM »

Dodgy,

The way it ended up after experimenting is that the right stick forward/back controls throttle (and change in tone in motor noise as stick is moved but no prop movement) and left/right on same (right) stick controls rudder servo which operates normally. Left stick does nothing at present. Once I get the motor working normally I will change this, but at present I want to solve the motor problem.

Boz
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LarryW

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2011, 04:25:21 PM »

 hi BOZ , try this remove motor , and do a static test out side model check  solder joints you say you fitted suppressors, ,
  also whose esc are you using ?, also are you trying to run a radio battery pack a long side it ?
     you could have a duff unit , what batt pac and motor are you using?
  i allways do a mock set up and test out side model be fore fitting and range test ,......... LARRY.. O0
             PS ,also remove radio power pack , and just plug in running pack . BUT / check out ESC IS COMPATLBE? again whos ESC ARE YOU USEING?????? .
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2011, 05:10:26 PM »

Larry,

Tried it again, got the propeller to turn but not very fast using throttle, and only in one direction (pulling back on stick, did not turn when stick pushed forwards but noise continued with chenge in tone as stick moved). I have noise suppression, and you are right solder joints could be an issue as I am not the most experienced solderer. I did double check the joints when I did them. So the motor definitely works. The problem lies somewhere in the motor itself (it is quite old) or in my connections to it.  The ESC is a Viper 25.

Boz
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LarryW

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2011, 05:22:07 PM »

boz , try another motor , or redo all solder joints, you ok just use running battt pack , you do not need radio pack....... LARRY ........
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PMK

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2011, 07:48:27 PM »

Boz, in addition to all the sage suggestions already given, another reason for your ESC not to work might be because that it's not compatible with your 2.4GHz radio. Most every 2.4GHz transmitter emits a lower-voltage pulse signal than their 27MHz, 35MHz or 40MHz counterparts. To prove the point, is it possible that you could try your ESC with a transmitter other than 2.4GHz? I have known at least two MTroniks to fail with 2.4GHz sets, but the problem was soon remedied in both instances by simply beefing-up the pulse signal with a simple 2-transistor booster which connects between your receiver and your ESC.
If your ESC does indeed work with, say, a 40MHz transmitter, would you like one of the aforementioned signal boosters in order for the ESC to work with your 2.4GHz set?
Alternatively, is it possible that you might loan another make/model of ESC to try?
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2011, 11:35:35 PM »

Had another play just now and got prop to turn again. I kept the throttle on and after a few seconds it gradually started spinning faster. When it spins, the loud motor whine I described above gets quieter.

My next step will be to re-prime the hull so the chine strips are protected from water and run it in the bath to see if there is further improvement.

Thanks for all the suggestions - I am totally new to the RC business and the superior knowledge of others is a great help.
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #64 on: January 25, 2011, 03:30:53 PM »

Hi,

Some latest photos:

The top shows the trial fit of the PCB for the noise suppression, note the second capacitor has not yet been attached. The second photo shows the PCB before being soldered in and the instructions sent by my uncle for installation - the same uncle who I built this with in the early 1980s. The third shows the trial fitment of the middle deck piece - I am leaving the final gluing in until all the fiddly work has been done.
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #65 on: January 25, 2011, 03:38:31 PM »

I have reprimed hull after all the filling and sanding down ready for bath testing and drawing on the waterline. It is amazing how the coat of primer shows those little imperfections I didn't know were there! Luckily noting that a light sand couldn't fix. I tested the motor again this morning, and it has definitely responded to a little use, now responding reasonably well to throttle inputs, much better than yesterday. However, it does not yet reverse and only works when the stick on the Tx is pulled back. But nonetheless it is significant progress - the prop turned under its own power for the first time in over 20 years! Very satisfying. Although it is not yet all perfectly set up I am pleased that in broad terms sit all actually works!

Once some bath testing is conducted, the remainder of the coaming and new deck insert piece will be glued in and primed, then the paint job can be applied and a proper sea trial can be conducted.
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LarryW

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #66 on: January 25, 2011, 04:01:58 PM »

hi boz, looked at motor ,today looks vintage , i would put a fuse link in circuit just for safety.
   do you no the make of motor/......BEST OF LUCK ...LARRY... :-))
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2011, 04:29:26 PM »

Larry, the motor is about 25 - 30 years old. t is 6v but I don't know the make, there are no markings at all on it. The gearbox was scratch-built by my uncle and is a work of art. Agree about the fuse - I will put one in the battery +ve wire when I can find a suitable fuse holder. I remember my uncle saying the performance would be leisurely and that it will probably not even get up on the plane, although the hull according to the Vic Smeed articles is a good planing hull and very manoeuverable. The prop will also contribute to less-than-optimum performance; it is hand made and soldered - I did it myself all those years ago under the tutelage of my uncle, 2 blades cut from brass soldered to a boss shaped on a lathe with a file, so it is nicely made and looks good but is un-balanced and has quite heavy blunt blades designed for minimising injury if young hands went there they shouldn't at the expense of performance. It was not an idle concern - 30 years later one of my fingernails is still slightly differently shaped as a result of this boat build - I was cutting one of the hull skins and instead the scalpel went straight through the fingernail near the top. Despite the fact that the performance will probably not set the world on fire, I've decided to leave the running gear as is and get it on the water and enjoy it. If/when the motor breaks I could then think about putting something a bit quicker in there, get a lighter, balanced prop etc. But for now the leisurely performance will be of benefit to the RC novice!
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LarryW

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2011, 05:04:45 PM »

WHAT A GOOD REPLY,hope  all goes well and don't forget pictures,     also wheres your local pool?....
       will it be Gloucester docks?........ and mind those fingers they come as set of 10 {-)........LARRY.....
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triumphjon

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2011, 11:16:26 PM »

your problem could lie in the vintage motor not working in harmony with the more modern esc and radio , do you have or can you borrow a more modern 540 type motor to test it with ?
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #70 on: January 26, 2011, 03:06:32 PM »

There are plenty of lakes around here, just need to find the right one.

The motor has freed up a lot, part of the problem was more than 2 decades of inactivity.

Tried it out in the bath just now - it goes quite well and the motor is working quite well although I still can't get reverse. I marked the waterline on the hull with a pencil as well. The bow does lift a little when power is applied so it will be fast enough I think. The rudder and Tx programming need refinement and I need an inline fuse holder between the battery and the ESC. I also need an earth wire from the black battery cable to the earth point on the port gearbox mounting screw.

Later today I will sort out a few preparation for painting, and hopefully start tomorrow.
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triumphjon

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #71 on: January 26, 2011, 04:45:52 PM »

where are you in gloucestershire ? lots of lake around ciren. if memory serves me right there is even a model boat club using one of them ! lake in the middle of pittville park  cheltenham , easy accsess and free parking !
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LarryW

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2011, 04:57:24 PM »

hi a lot of nostalgia there hope the motor holds out , don't for get lubricate prop shaft  :-)) larry.
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Boz

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2011, 06:36:04 PM »

Yes, I am not very far from Cirencester. I should find out about the model boat club. Thanks for the tip about Cheltenham.
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triumphjon

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Re: Rebuild - 'Slalome' by Vic Smeed
« Reply #74 on: January 26, 2011, 08:49:36 PM »

there are also a few lakes near kemble , but not having been there for a few years i cant remember how to get to them ( used to deliver golf tees around the area )
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