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Author Topic: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....  (Read 17105 times)

Marks Model Bits

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2009, 07:06:55 pm »

when was the last time you went to hospital ? many of these very skilled positions are filled by people from other countries and when it comes too the lesser skilled jobs on the whole they arent afraid to get there hands dirty !!

As most of you know Angie has been in hospital recently and she said that the kindest, polite, hard working and most helpful nurses working the ward were the Phillipino nurses. The other nurses did thier job OK but the Phillipino nurses were in a different league.....

Mark.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2009, 07:23:28 pm »

The fact that the UK is prepared to accept so many refugees is one of the reasons it is a good country. Like it or not, the fact remains that if "you" were a refugee seeking sanctuary or wanted to make a better life for "yourself" (as a British person) how many countries would allow "you" in and integrate "you" into their society with relative ease? Put "yourself" into a refugee's shoes; it must be hell for loads of them. Many former refugees become fully integrated into British society and bring countless skills, and benefit their local communities in numerous ways. The notion that they are all on the scrounge and after an easy ride is totally ridiculous - where is the hard evidence to back up this myth? And finally, Britain is great because of its multi-cultural society.

 %)


Whereas I have sympathies with people who do not have the standard of life they want in thier own country lets not over glamourise thier intentions.  They are not here because of how wonderful the country is they are here purely and simply for what they can get out of it.  It's very interesting to note that now the exchage rate with the Euro is closing in there has been a significant shift in the transient workforce around Europe and a very large percentage of eastern europeans are now finding jobs in thier own country.  They were only here for what they could get out of us and the fact that we make it so attractive and easy does not fill me with pride.

How many stories do we have to see on the news where someone cannot get a cancer drug because it is too expensive, someone cannot get treatment for many months because of the waiting list or you can't get your mother into the care home that is near to you because the council can't afford to pay for that one.  To me charity begins at home and we should look after ourselves first before we are so ready to dish it out to every one else.

German national hospitals are of a better standard than our private ones in the UK and a world apart from the disgrace of the NHS.  They have something to be proud of there, and we are supposed to have led the way with the NHS.  The Leeds General Infirmary now close the hospital to visitors every Thursday afternoon to give them time to clean the hospital.  They should be absolutely ashamed to admit that they only do it once a week.  Hospital cleanliness should be a continuous process not a once a week job.  What they are saying is the hospital is dirty for six and a half days!!!

Let's not also forget that peoples perceptions of the significance of these issues are greatly influenced by thier own experiences and there are some towns around the UK that are far more affected than some other areas.  I would be very surprised to hear of anyone who actually condoned sending child benefit money out of the UK to a foreign country so perhaps if that was going on in your own town it may just adjust your views on the issue.

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andygh

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2009, 07:59:45 pm »

You a Daily Mail reader?
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polobeer

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2009, 08:16:43 pm »

Bunkerbarge,

You need to back up your argument with some hard facts. It is a sweeping generalisation that all foreign nationals who seek asylum, or want to move to the UK for other reasons, do so just for what they can get. You speak from a very privileged position and if the boot was on the other foot would you be so eager to condemn many innocent and hard working folk from abroad? We in the UK are extremely lucky in a worldwide sense, with relatively little to worry about in comparison to say Afghanistan or parts of the Far East (i.e. no wars, starvation, torture, catastrophic natural disasters, etc, etc). Generosity is what helps define civilisation and the UK is a very generous nation.

 %)
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DickyD

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2009, 08:31:33 pm »

You a Daily Mail reader?

I'm a Daily Mail Reader. Want to meet me out back.  <*< <*< ok2
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Wasyl

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2009, 08:44:04 pm »

Mr Wasyl

Presumably the Polish/Czech national working in the UK farming industry is paying UK tax? There are estates in this area where the majority have never worked or paid tax and yet happily claim benefit - and every single one of them is a UK-born citizen.

No car imported into the UK can remain here legally for more than six months without being registered.

20% of drivers on the roads have no valid tax or insurance - do you imagine they are all Polish or Czech nationals?

The value quoted for unpaid parking tickets in Tayside pales into insignificance compared with those issued in Inner London to foreign diplomats.......or white-van men almost anywhere.

I'm sure that Tesco would prefer to employ people without the extra expense of having to pay for them to be taught English - but if the indigenous population is too lazy to work or too comfortable claiming benefits then Tesco don't seem to have much of a choice, do they?

At what stage did the various foreign invaders who settled in the UK and spawned our ancestors stop being "immigrants", "boat people" or "refugees"? Was it simply when they became the majority and began to refer to more recent and less fortunate incomers than themselves in those same derogatory terms?

Canada is fine if you like trees......................I,ve got a friend who lives in Canada,..he thinks its great!...unlike some parts of Engerland, ;D


Wullie




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ajb68

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2009, 08:45:12 pm »

As most of you know Angie has been in hospital recently and she said that the kindest, polite, hard working and most helpful nurses working the ward were the Phillipino nurses. The other nurses did thier job OK but the Phillipino nurses were in a different league.....

Mark.

I think we would be in a hell of a mess without these people to be honest !  {:-{
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2009, 09:13:26 pm »

Bunkerbarge,

You need to back up your argument with some hard facts.

No I don't.  I am able to draw my own conclusions from my experiences of living and working with mixed nationalities in many different countries all my working life. 

I don't have to provide facts to justify my point of view to you no more than any one else does to any of us.  I don't expect anyone to have to supply hard facts to simply have an opinion but I do expect to be able to share differing sides of a debate without being told what I need to do.
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DickyD

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2009, 09:18:57 pm »

Think it might be time to close this topic.
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andygh

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2009, 09:46:08 pm »

Quote
I'm a Daily Mail Reader. Want to meet me out back.

You really wouldn't want to do that ok2
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Peter Fitness

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2009, 09:53:59 pm »

As a born and bred, true blue Aussie, I think Britain is a beautiful place, great people, glorious countryside and fascinating history - shame about the weather  {-) I have been fortunate enough to visit the UK on 3 occasions, in 1993, 1997 and 2008, and would go back again next week if I could - I love it, but I also love where I live. I think our area is one of the most beautiful places I've seen anywhere, but I'm biased, extremely biased, and I'm sure many of you would say exactly the same about where you live.

One of the signs of growing older is when we start saying, "things aren't what they used to be". I say it, my parents said it, and my grandparents said it. My children and grandchildren will probably start saying it in a few years time. The fact is that times change, and not always for the better. We can try to change it if we are able, but if we can't we have to accept it and move on.

Peter.
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chingdevil

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2009, 10:19:48 pm »

I do not want or need apologies from people, just because their newspapers say the UK is the worst place to live in Europe. I am British and proud of it and would not want to live anywhere else, I have travelled to quite a few countries around the world and thought they would be a nice place to move to, but when I return home I am glad to be here. We still have the freedom to speak and protest, yes we have a fair few cctv cameras, but I have yet to find a country that would give me the life style that I have now.

I do get fed up by foreign nationals who get here by foul means or fair and then winge and complain about the country and its traditions, but are still happy to take the handouts they can scrounge. In my opinion if they do not like it leave, there are no guards dogs or barbed wire keeping them her only the handouts. I have some Eastern Europeans living next door to me, and they are the most noisiest and dirtiest people I have ever had the missfortune to meet. They rent the property from a friend of mine, both the women have had children and they have asked for the lease to be put in one of the womens names so they can get some more benefits, my friend declined.

I do get fed up with the do gooders who tell us we should help all these people, and all the others from the rest of the poor world who can not be bothered to do anything for their own countries but are happy to travel half way around the world to steal from this one.

And yes I do read The Daily Mail

Brian

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polobeer

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #37 on: November 19, 2009, 11:15:39 pm »

No I don't.  I am able to draw my own conclusions from my experiences of living and working with mixed nationalities in many different countries all my working life.  

I don't have to provide facts to justify my point of view to you no more than any one else does to any of us.  I don't expect anyone to have to supply hard facts to simply have an opinion but I do expect to be able to share differing sides of a debate without being told what I need to do.

Begging your pardon Sir! Have you thought about applying for a job in the immigration office?  :P

Luckily there are plenty of enlightened people living in the UK ...


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dodgy geezer

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2009, 11:27:33 pm »

I just wonder who had the brilliant idea that a prospective immigrant could immediately take advantage of all the social benefits of the UK on arrival, but was forbidden to work to support himself.

Most people I talk to suggest that a prospective immigrant should be encouraged to work and support himself immediately, but should only be allowed to take advantage of social benefits once he had paid in a certain amount of taxes...
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kiwi

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2009, 11:28:06 pm »

Hi DickyD,
I'm not knocking my country, just stating a sad fact of life. I'm proud to be a Kiwi, and both my parents, my brother and sister have lived here all their lives. It is a beautiful country, and so is the UK, but I've always been of the opinion that if you want to live here, make sure you have enough capital in hand to not have to work here. You do that, you will enjoy living here.
cheers
kiwi
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w3bby

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #40 on: November 20, 2009, 02:02:27 am »

I do not want or need apologies from people, just because their newspapers say the UK is the worst place to live in Europe. I am British and proud of it
Just for your information I am British (and proud of it) though I live in Sweden (almost 20 years now). I thought the report appeared to cover a fairly broad range of issues and drew a conclusion based on those issues, not how people feel emotionally about their country and was worthy of a little discussion.

Quote "The uSwitch.com study examined 17 factors in order to understand where the UK sits in relation to nine other major European countries. Variables such as net income, taxes and the cost of essential goods, such as fuel, food and energy bills, were examined along with lifestyle factors, such as hours of sunshine, holiday entitlement, working hours and life expectancy to provide a complete picture of the quality of life experienced in each country.
The findings show that people in the UK and Ireland have the poorest quality of life, while the French and Spanish enjoy the highest. The UK gets the lowest number of days holiday per year[12], pays the highest prices for diesel[4] and food[5] and spends below the European average (as a percentage of GDP) on health[8] and education[9]. It also has the 4th lowest life expectancy in Europe[3] and workers retire later than most of their European counterparts[2]."
(Numbers in brackets are to references contained in the pdf)

I guess I could change the title and ask "What happened whilst I was out?".

I find it interesting that some of the issues brought up in some of the responses are similar to issues found in Sweden, immigration being one.

FullLeatherJacket

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #41 on: November 20, 2009, 08:44:28 am »

Isn't it somehow sadly predictable the way this thread has prompted a string of xenophobic rants?
 
While it's true that people coming into the UK from abroad are granted limited benefits in specific circumstances, I'm certain that they are not entitled to anything from which a UK citizen is barred - unless you include being banged up in a "reception centre" for an indefinite period under the threat of deportation while someone at the Ministry of Homeland Security or whatever loses their paperwork.

That neighbour A might be a noisy, lazy and untidy example of nationality B is not a reflection upon that entire nation - it's simply a fact that he is a noisy, lazy and untidy individual. There are any number of "true Brits" wandering around who have equally unpleasant personal traits - some a lot worse e.g avarice, indolence, arrogance, racism, homophobia, paedophilia. You don't need a funny accent to be anti-social.

If we stopped relying on the right-wing gutter press for our opinions and stopped importing brainless and tasteless trailer-trash culture from the USA (the nation which went from independence to decadence without bothering to touch civilization on the way) then we might stand a chance. 'Gangstas' and the drugs'n'gun culture didn't come from Bangladesh, and the foul language we hear from kids on the street isn't spoken in Polish or Czech.
 
If all of the so-called immigrants, refugees and boat people were suddenly spirited away into a fourth dimension then I doubt if the nation's social security budget would register the effect whereas the hospitals, local authority services and public transport would for sure. Blaming the country's social maladies on a few minorities is the stuff of fascism and I don't want any part of that. Read the Daily Mail or a Murdoch rag if you must, but don't fall for their agenda. It's as pernicious and selfish as Mr Nick Griffin's own, save that he is a little more transparent.

Last point; anyone who has met the owner of this forum will know that his folks come from Jamaica - are we somehow permitted to make exemptions from our prejudices for the people we know?

FLJ

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Roger in France

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2009, 12:22:38 pm »

From both the the dross which has been spouted on this subject and the wisdom comes the best and funniest comment which made me laugh with great pleasure and shows our great friend FLJ to be a master of letters:

"...the nation which went from independence to decadence without bothering to touch civilisation on the way....."

I only hope, Dave, that the North American market holds up for you!

I suggest this topic has gone far enough and I recommend Martin to lock it now.

Roger in France
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polobeer

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #43 on: November 20, 2009, 12:53:16 pm »

Roger,

I hope you include yourself in the statement that you made above, as you were one of the authors? The entire debate is relevant with "no dross", just interesting views and a smattering of humour. It should be allowed to run because it will fade out in due course, as all threads do.

S
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Roger in France

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2009, 03:05:35 pm »

Of course I include myself in the statement I made.

I leave you and others to decide in which part of that statement.

Roger in France

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snowwolflair

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2009, 03:23:55 pm »

Appart from those of us decended from the Picts, you are all foreigners to me.  Its only a matter of when you ancesters came to live here.

I have lived all over the world and there are good people and bad people everywhere, frankly I dont mind if the good people of the world live here.
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Bugsy

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2009, 03:38:22 pm »

I am proud to be English and love all thats best about the UK.
Its just the politics and the PC in the UK that I struggle with.

France isn't perfect, of course, and not for everyone. It just suits us.

Gary.
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derekwarner

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #47 on: November 20, 2009, 04:25:54 pm »

OK....digressing a little....

In the 1870's Britain does not understand how to deal with the underclass...so these underclass convict people were exported  O0...deported to the other side of the world....to like OZ & Kiwi

Many years later..... O0...Britain gets into a tiff with her cousin....& WW1 happens

The 'call' goes out....& the descendent's of our convict history stand up to the call with the resultant proud name of ANZACS

Many years later [2009] ......our OZ troops are still defending the sovereign soil of another land.....but 20,000 km from the soil where they were born ....Derek

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BarryM

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2009, 04:29:14 pm »

Appart from those of us decended from the Picts, you are all foreigners to me.  Its only a matter of when you ancesters came to live here.

I have lived all over the world and there are good people and bad people everywhere, frankly I dont mind if the good people of the world live here.

Ach, you Picts are just newcomers - we Cro-magnons got here first.  %)

Barry M
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Apologies to all those residing in the UK.....
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2009, 04:31:33 pm »

Quote
Ach, you Picts are just newcomers - we Cro-magnons got here first.

I think you are forgetting that there are a lot of Neanderthals on Mayhem - they aren't extinct at all.  :} :} :}

Colin

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