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Author Topic: MSW Envoy Build.  (Read 12525 times)

justboatonic

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MSW Envoy Build.
« on: February 15, 2010, 04:07:12 PM »

Hmmm. Next query I have on the Envoy build is about the Main (fore) Deck and how it fits to the hull. The instructions seem a little contradictory (or maybe its how Im reading them?) on this point.

The instructions say to fit the 6 x 3 mm deck supports for the Main deck so the supports are at the same level as the strake on the outside of the bow. OK so far. It follows that the deck supports which are shown as one piece, maintain this datum until  the step down for the aft section. So, if you fit the deck supports as stated at the bow, these should be level with the hull sides going back from where the front strake ends.

The instructions next say the Main fore deck should be fitted on top of the deck supports. Fair enough. But this then contradicts the next bit of the instructions which state the Main fore deck should be fitted between the hull sides. And, since the hull is narrower than the plasticard deck (which shouldnt be trimmed as the instructions also say the deck is used to maintain the correct overall width of the hull) I dont see how it can be fitted between the hull sides nor be used to maintain the correct hull width.

My way of looking at this means either the deck supports must be set the deck thickness below the front strake to the aft step allowing the deck to fit between the hull sides OR, the deck supports are fitted per instructions and the deck sits on top of these, will therefore be above the level of the deck sides and wont satisfactorily push the hull sides apart. Anyone follow that?

How have others fitted the Main fore deck?

Help!

Thanks!!
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DickyD

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2010, 05:19:57 PM »

Give Model Slipway a ring, they are very helpful and they've answered many a question from me in the past.

Laurie and Jackie are never put out no matter how silly you think the question is. :-))
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 08:09:20 PM »

Yep, very helpful people!

After looking at one of the reviews in MSW gallery for the Envoy, I found a full review (no holds barred!) on another site. This http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2137749 clearly shows some serious bracing not alluded to in the instructions, is required plus, the deck supports for the Main deck have been placed below the level of the front strake.

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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 08:16:32 PM »

Right, started fitting the deck supports, 6 x 3 mm plastic strip. Got the first layer fitted for the Main fore deck and half the aft deck done. Just waiting for the epoxy to go off!

Thing is though. when you put the resin on thin strips like the deck supports then fix them to the hull with clothes pegs, once the glue has dried and you take the pegs off, I always find a slight bead of resin between the hull sides and the plastic strip. What's the best way to stop this happening since it also stops the deck being fitted snugly on top of the strip. And we all know epoxy is difficult to flatten.

Normally, I'd wipe the excess epoxy off but when you have 25 - 30 pegs holding the strip to the hull that's a bit difficult. Less epoxy means the strip doesnt stick to the inside of the hull due to the coarse GF used.
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DickyD

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 08:27:32 PM »

I trim mine off with a Stanley knife, doesn't take long.
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 08:33:20 PM »

I trim mine off with a Stanley knife, doesn't take long.

Is that after its set DD?
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DickyD

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 08:41:02 PM »

It is. :-))

Run the point of the knife flat along the top of the 6mm x 3mm then vertically along the fibreglass.
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 08:47:28 PM »

It is. :-))

Run the point of the knife flat along the top of the 6mm x 3mm then vertically along the fibreglass.

Cheers for the tip DD! I'll give that a go after I've fitted all the supports.
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Bradley

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 08:58:36 PM »

I run a sharp 1/2" wood chisel round it and I find that works pefectly and the odd stubborn bit can also be lifted off with said chisel.  :-)) O0
By the way - NOT using it like you would normally use a chisel, but as a scraper.  ;)

Derek.
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2010, 01:02:22 PM »

Once again, thanks for the advice!
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2010, 10:53:42 PM »

Right, first level of deck support strip fitted all around inside of the hull.

Next step is to double this up!
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2010, 01:59:32 PM »

OK, deck supports doubled up and glued in place.

Next job and Im looking ahead a little here. I've managed to get the opening for the prop tube sorted so its lining it and the motor up so everything is nice and centered. So any tips for this?

It would be easy to just lob the prop tube in, fix the coupling and motor on and say job's done. Only that doesnt mean the thrust from the motor is down the centre line of the boat which shows itself when sailing as having to have a bit of rudder trim on all the time. You cant use the mould line in the hull either since this may not be the true centre line.

Sooooooo, what's the best way to line up and make sure the motor, coupling and prop tube are straight down the centre line?

Any suggestions?
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Shipmate60

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2010, 04:43:52 PM »

Mark a centre line inside the hull.
I mark from the bow and along the skeg on the hull.
I use elastic and blue tak to hold it.
I mark alternate sides of the elastic and draw the line between the marks.
If it doesn't look quite right erase the line and adjust.
This should ensure that the propshaft and motor are directly in line by looking vertically down on the set up.

Bob
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2010, 04:59:15 PM »

When you are actually fitting the motor use a solid connection between the motor shaft and the prop shaft to ensure alignement then remove it once the motor and shaft locations are set.
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2010, 09:11:37 PM »

Thanks both  :-))
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2010, 10:24:00 PM »

Blimey! This rear deck sure needs a lot of trimming.  O0
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DickyD

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2010, 10:27:39 PM »

justboatonic where's the photos.  {:-{
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2010, 10:37:59 PM »

justboatonic where's the photos.  {:-{

Too embarassed to post any just yet DD  ok2

Once I've got the deck looking sorted I'll put one or two up for critique!
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2010, 01:58:11 PM »

OK, here are a couple of pics of the Dirty Harry, Envoy tug build. Im going to call it DH since one tug was called Enforcer. A man's got to know his limitations!

Apologies in advance as the pics are taken with the integral laptop camera!

First one is of the rivets I've put on the hull. Yes, for the purists out there, they arent the right scale size or pattern. Even so, I reckon there's getting on for 2500+ rivets on the hull. Hope they show up alright!



This next pic should show the deck supports held to the hull by high tech means (clothes pegs) while the glue goes off!



This pic shows midships with the rubbing strakes fitted. The forward deck supports should be visible.



This last one shows the prop tube exiting the hull. Not sure if the damage can be made out (probably not) when drilling and filing. Bit of fibre glass resin should be enough as there isnt a lot of damage done.




Oops! Forgot this one of the rear decking being worked into place. Still lots of trimming towards the stern as the width towards midships determines the the hull's overall width.



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DickyD

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2010, 05:02:45 PM »

Little on the small size but they are photos alright.

Seem to be getting on alright, looks fine. :-))
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2010, 11:57:49 AM »

Little on the small size but they are photos alright.

Seem to be getting on alright, looks fine. :-))

Ta for that DD.

Right, had a look at the rudder last night. Have to say Im not keen of the kit supplied item(s). The rudder is made from 2 thin pieces of plasticard. Not certain if the card is a thou thick so two together is 2 thou thickness?

Here's a shot of the rudder cut out and two halves stuck together. I've not fully trimmed the rudder to profile or outline yet. Sorry if the pic is grainy.



OK photography aside, it doesnt look too bad. But, this next shot shows bend!



Do I not like that! The rudder needs 4 'stays' fitting to it which may make it a bit more straight up and down but Im not convinved. Also, with a 70mm prop right in front of it, Im not convinced it wont flex in the water.

So, Im in need of ideas what to use to replace the kit rudder. any ideas? I dont have fancy workshop facilities so need something thats going to be stiffer than the supplied card but, reasonably easy to make and profile ie the replacement must have the same outline as in the first picture.

Any suggestions \ advice?
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FullLeatherJacket

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2010, 12:20:46 PM »

David
Styrene sheet parts should be 1.0mm each, not 0.001". If you slightly warm the assembly you have made then it will bend back flat - just weight it down while it cools. My Envoy was made exactly as per the plan and there was no evidence of flexing when under way. Just try bending it by hand and you'll see how difficult that would be!
I would, however, recommend using a high-power servo as there is no dynamic balancing on this rudder. I found a Perkins one in our local model shop for about 15 which did the job perfick.
FLJ
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2010, 12:39:39 PM »

David
Styrene sheet parts should be 1.0mm each, not 0.001". If you slightly warm the assembly you have made then it will bend back flat - just weight it down while it cools. My Envoy was made exactly as per the plan and there was no evidence of flexing when under way. Just try bending it by hand and you'll see how difficult that would be!
I would, however, recommend using a high-power servo as there is no dynamic balancing on this rudder. I found a Perkins one in our local model shop for about 15 which did the job perfick.
FLJ

Thanks Dave.

Yep, the rudder came from the relevant sheet so 1mm (x 2) not 1 thou will be correct.
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2010, 07:54:18 PM »

Does anyone know whether the fullsize Envoy class tugs had a 4 or 3 bladed propellor? Kit comes with a very nice 3 blader but Im wondering if a 4 is actually correct.
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justboatonic

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Re: MSW Envoy Build.
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2010, 02:59:01 PM »

Right then, the Graupner 900 has been binned (not literally, see the For Sale forum for details!) as imo its not suitable either in size or performance.

So, after a lot of head scratching and considering alternatives such as an MFA 800 with belt drive (silly money!), a 1 to 1 belt drive from the Graupner 900 to the propshaft (doesnt get around some of the issues with the G900 or some other geared motor, I decided it had to be an MFA 919 with 6 to 1 gearbox.

With some trepidation, the motor arrived today and I must say, have MFA improved this setup!? Its totally smooth and more to the point, quiet!  :-)) Couldnt believe how quiet it is compared to the two similar MFA 919's and gearboxes in Drumbeat. Those gearboxes are 2.5 to 1 so maybe that the difference but I do have to say Im impressed with the new one I have. Hope it stays that way and doesnt get noisier as it runs in!

So, I can get on with installation now!
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