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[Prophet]

As Promised... i said i would build a springer!

been working on it since thurday. i used the plans from Martins Thread, the ones that show the dimensions for the curve ... now i posted in the springer main chat about the hull being flat on the base most will recall that post. now in following Martins Plan it shows the base of the springer at one point a dead flat if only for 2" but still... its a flat bottom so hence my reason for picking that plan to build from rather then the A4 pdf thats on offer,.. ok so heres the springer so far...

shes constructed Out of 3.5mm ply. hull is 18x8 but there is a 1/8th overhand for the superstructer side walls i doubt many people will moan about 8th of an "!

[toesupwa]

As Promised... i said i would build a springer!

i used the plans from Martins Thread, the ones that show the dimensions for the curve ... now i posted in the springer main chat about the hull being flat on the base most will recall that post. now in following Martins Plan it shows the base of the springer at one point a dead flat if only for 2" but still... its a flat bottom

Ermm... something isnt quite right there...

I've just looked at Martins thread again and the 'stations' for the dimensions show a curved bottom... there is no 'flat'... 

[Prophet]

yes there is ....

115.89mm or 4.9/16ths twice

[RaaArtyGunner]

yes there is ....

115.89mm or 4.9/16ths twice

Not a springer man nor built one but looking at the plots me thinks no flat.
Suppose you connected all the stations points using straight lines, then you would have an apex intersect below the centre of the two identical stations, 115.89.
Change the straight lines to curves and continue the curvature past the two identical stations and the bottom is round. 
To prove it, get a sheet of paper and follow the station points and lo and behold there is no flat. 

[derekwarner]

......mmmmmmm...goodness ....RaaArtyGunner   please don't let the OZ team down .....

The plan is clearly drawn as demonstrated by a substantial gathering of rounded convergences   ..there are no moderated straight lines....only straight thing needed is a   jacket for anyone that cannot see the difference between a rounded thingie & a straight [jacket] version of the latter   Derek

Derek, Swearing is simply not acceptable on a family forum such as Mayhem.

[Prophet]

Wish i hadn't said anything now about that flat base... but i cant believe you guys want to argue about the plan showing a 1" section that is a dead flat when its clearly there on the plan , your own representation of the plan may want you to say its still a curve... but none the less the plan shows the flat section clearly. if you want to build yours with a continuous curve be my guest but i built mine as per the plan and for that its still a springer you can argue all you like fact is ,.. I'm right its a flat 1" section and you have to be an idiot to try to argue with a plan sat there showing the flat. as i said if you want to turn that flat to a curve to finish the profile thats your representation of it.. not mine.!

[ooyah/2]

Good for you Prophet,  that,s put all those Naval Architects in their place, they can't have much else to do than argue about such a trivial thing, but that then is the problem with know'alls, they just have to get their point over.

[derekwarner]

  Guys...I wouldn't be too concerned about a flat spot...... BUT

If stations 50.8 & 44.45 are correct,,,,,,,  then station 47.63 is incorrect

I do not have a PC mathematical package on line to offer a correction but suggest the station listed as 47.36 should be 46.335'........

The basis for my view is one of the greatest design elements known to mankind...long before ....LOG tables & slide rules & calculators & computers .....but was the art form of the neolithic tear drop........ ....

Disappointingly......two members have chosen to use the word "argue" re this thread......... Derek

[Netleyned]

The hull therefore should be made up of 1'' wide planks to give a flat or a straight line between each measurement
A single piece bottom of 1/16" ply will naturally curve over the shaped sides

Ned

[RaaArtyGunner]

Derek,
Can't see the problem  as there is no argument  because there is no flat spot  and I know I am right

[Bunkerbarge]

Are we anywhere near a full moon?

As for the springer, well done to Prophet for putting it together and for taking the time to share his build with the rest of us.  It's looking good so far and just goes to show that anyone can have a go at a scratch build hull and make a model to be proud of. 

[Prophet]

Regardless of what people think about the hull of a springer. I'm sticking with the plans along with the fact that real springer hulls have this flat spot, i planked the base of the springer with 1/2" ply so i have a 1" flat spot but given the fact that the hulls now sanded smooth you can barley tell but its there.

at the end of the day you build your boats the way you want and what you feel happy with. to be honest who cares if one springers got a full curve and ones for a slight flat . as long as its 18x8 with the appropriate running gear and a superstructure its still a springer and just to be awkward I'll prove that springers have flats on there hulls!







so make your own mind up but im keeping to mine !


i tend not to argue but to point out theres other ways of doing things if your going to post more comments on arguing the point i ask you DONT simply because it ruins the point of others sharing there builds on here which is the main point, i can take constructive criticism but when your arguing with a plan stating the truth keep ya mouth shut!

And thanks to those who have posted nice comments it is appreciated and makes building and sharing on here worth while

[Martin13]

Go for it Prophet.

Following your build closely - I'm about to start on a springer (my way)

Good job so far and looking on with great interest

Martin doon under

[Prophet]

I'm working on the superstructure in between looking after the kids today wife at work so i got 2 kids a dog and a spinger on the floor playing i will update the log later tonight showing the addred cabin section =, i plan to build a cabin similar to the old puffer tug , have a large rear open deck with a winch and a few barrels something like that I'm looking at funnels at the moment for ideas I'm keen on the old diesel chimneys ( like a truck) but i fancy a pair of new triangular funnels not sure yet I'll work it out at some point

[toesupwa]

Regardless of what people think about the hull of a springer. I'm sticking with the plans along with the fact that real springer hulls have this flat spot

and just to be awkward I'll prove that springers have flats on there hulls!







so make your own mind up but im keeping to mine !

i can take constructive criticism but when your arguing with a plan stating the truth keep ya mouth shut!

Unfortunately, the pictures you have chosen to show your point are not 1:1 (full size) Springer's but Truckable workboat's. A full size 1:1 Springer does not exist.

I've re visited my CAD plan i drew from the original PNW drawing / dimensions and have built 10 Springer's from this plan so far... I've added a dim between the two questionable dimensions... 

[triumphjon]

WHY re people argueing over what is drawn in the plan ? the measurements shown in prophets set clearly show at least two stations adjacent to each other with the same dimensions !  i cant see what the fuss is about , the biulder has followed the set of plans he has in front of him , in the same way any biulder would .  prophet your model looks good from where im sitting , keep up the good work ?

[Prophet]

thanks bud im getting pretty Implied swearing removed off with the fuss about a stupid 1" flat. seams like a lot of people want to be right and argue it till there blue in the face.. wasting time and actully making my post look like it a load of and again as said.. i have a plan to follow if its wrong its not my fault, but i dont really care what everyone thinks its my build and its the enjoyment of building that amkes this a hobbie. i find it hard to think that there are other boaters out there that half "xxxxx" there models or build it the way they think rather then the plan somtimes totaly ignoring it.. thats freedom to build what you want how you want. i havent built this springer to go to competitions or what not i am building it simple to encorace some bonding with my 5 year old daughter, in time once my son hits 5 and starts an intrest i will build him a boat too. the thing i think most have forgotton is that its a hobbie to build things right way or wrong way but if you get the enjoyment during the build and recive the rewards at the end, in my case getting my children into a hobbie apart from watching tv then its all worth it right??

Anyhow forget the rubbish heres part of the update... i would have posted about hour earlier.. but i managed to shatter a glass and stand on it belive me when i tell you my kitchen floor turned from tan brick to bright red pretty quick !

Started on the superstructer

i was originaly going to base the tug on a working boat i see regually named the SD Hercules but, i figured that an old style working barge might be better.. and given that my daughter will most likly crash it it will add to the overall appearance.

so the wheel house is based off the clyde puffer. its till work in progress but i will update later tonight or tomorrow with the finished wheel house








Prophet, don't get wound up by those who have nothing better to do than try to put you down.  Make your model how you want and don't forget there is no right or wrong only to those who would rather argue than build.  I'd simply ignore the issue and continue your very interesting and informative build thread.

[chingdevil]

That is looking good Prophet, I like the puffer theme then I would having built one.
I would not worry about the bottom of your springer, as you said most of the rules are around the basic shape and drive train. If it looks like a springer and dives like a springer, its a springer


Brian

[Arrow5]

Why not go the whole hog and make a  "Spruffer". Move wheelhouse aft, denture cleansing tablet tube( see Granpa) funnel. Disguise access hatch with sticks as a load of timber. Dowel mast and hoots you`ll think you are sailing up the Clyde afore ye know it.

[Prophet]

nice puffer i was tempted at one stage to go the full hog but i have a London tug model from revell



so mines based on this one.

Heres the update on the wheel house only the roof missing but i will put that on once its painted internally i want to add some small detail since its going to have clear glass leaving it empty seams such a waste.



and this ones for the winch assembly I'm building from scratch no plans or pics, its only got to roughly look like its a winch i may well try to make it work or at least have a length that can extend for proper towing i will see if my daughter wants a barge of some sort once shes got the hang of playing with it, but better add it now rather then try to alter it at a later date.



And my apology's to anyone who felt offend by my lack of great English earlier.. I'm sure many will understand my frustration in that matter!

[RaaArtyGunner]

Prophet, don't get wound up by those who have nothing better to do than try to put you down.  Make your model how you want and don't forget there is no right or wrong only to those who would rather argue than build.  I'd simply ignore the issue and continue your very interesting and informative build thread.

Prophet,
In the main I don't think you were being criticised (well I hope so) about your build but people were trying to help you   (in their own way) in reading (interpreting) the drawings as the designer had intended.  [/color]

[RaaArtyGunner]

Unfortunately, the pictures you have chosen to show your point are not 1:1 (full size) Springer's but Truckable workboat's. A full size 1:1 Springer does not exist.

You have lost me when you say a full size doesn't exist.
Is it only a concept drawing??

[Peter Fitness]

My understanding is that Springers were designed as models, they are not scale models, that is, they are not miniature representations of "real" boats.

Prophet, your Springer is looking good keep the photos coming.

Peter.

[toesupwa]

Prophet, don't get wound up by those who have nothing better to do than try to put you down.  Make your model how you want and don't forget there is no right or wrong only to those who would rather argue than build.  I'd simply ignore the issue and continue your very interesting and informative build thread.

I wasnt trying to put Prophet down on his build, merely assist.... 

And i AM building.... 

Anyway...
I DO like your superstructure Prophet... It looks really good! 

[CGAux26]

I am not the expert that ToesUp is on Springers, so I will just furnish the link to the NWRC Ship Modelers website:

http://nwrcsm.freeyellow.com/index.html

and say go to the link "Springer Plan Set.(rev 6/14/03)."  Note that these plans/sketches are 7 years old, and I believe are the source of all Springers.  While there are two adjacent stations that have the same dimensions, it is clear that the designer intended that the hull be faired to continuous curves.  I am a member of the NWRCSM and have been close to many Springers owned by club members.  Can't recall any flat bottoms.  But people build Springer knockoffs in all sizes, with all kinds of different (= non-standard) props, rudders, battery voltages, etc.

As others have said in this thread, build your boat so it makes you happy.  Just setting the record straight.