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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 840472 times)

marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #425 on: July 10, 2007, 02:52:53 PM »

Marki- did you manage to locate a grp hull for your Titanic or are you buuilding one of wood?

DAryl

wood of course, doble planked

markus
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #426 on: July 10, 2007, 03:24:57 PM »

Hi marki,
would that cause problems in getting the deck and other bits to fit. Peter Hann does a 1/144 grp hull as its bigger it might be more stable. I thought the double planking would add extra weight were it is not needed above the waterline. Hasn't the mantua kit got a centre keel which goes up to the main deck level like the amti version?

Daryl
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #427 on: July 10, 2007, 03:42:14 PM »

BTW. www.miskinmodels.com is now www.plankonframe.com
 
John G - miskin models
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #428 on: July 10, 2007, 03:44:58 PM »

Hi marki,
would that cause problems in getting the deck and other bits to fit. Peter Hann does a 1/144 grp hull as its bigger it might be more stable. I thought the double planking would add extra weight were it is not needed above the waterline. Hasn't the mantua kit got a centre keel which goes up to the main deck level like the amti version?

Daryl

no, fitting the deck isn't a problem with this kit.
the wooden hull hasn't much more weight than a 'plastic' hull
the centre keel lies at least 90% under the waterline, take a look at 'part 1' in the link i posted earlier in this thread

markus
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #429 on: July 10, 2007, 03:53:44 PM »

Yes I have found a link which shows the instruction sheets from a model shop in Cornwall. makes intersting reading. The keel does look high and their r/c gear sits on top, not sure I like that idea as it put weight up higher than nessessary.
www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/titanic.html

As for a wooden hull weighing the same as a grp hull, I have to disagree, unless the grp is paper thin and the wooden one is balsa. We have on here one of the UK's best GRP men Kayem, I am sure he would know the weight differences given the type and thickness of wood and grade of grp.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #430 on: July 10, 2007, 04:05:13 PM »

Marki
Did'nt you say your post on the spec of your Titanic that you used the complete hull provided by Mantua, do you mean as in grp?.... as you now say it is double planked

The Matua detail says it is a single planked kit, so what I think Daryl is getting at is that by adding a 2nd layer of planks does this not cause a probem with the fit of other parts?

Double planking for the RC version has to be bette than a single plank was just wondering how you arrived at doing it as the matua kit is one I would consider if I bought a Titanic kit, presumably it is much better than the Amati one?
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #431 on: July 10, 2007, 04:51:19 PM »

Marki
Did'nt you say your post on the spec of your Titanic that you used the complete hull provided by Mantua, do you mean as in grp?.... as you now say it is double planked

The Matua detail says it is a single planked kit, so what I think Daryl is getting at is that by adding a 2nd layer of planks does this not cause a probem with the fit of other parts?

Double planking for the RC version has to be bette than a single plank was just wondering how you arrived at doing it as the matua kit is one I would consider if I bought a Titanic kit, presumably it is much better than the Amati one?

i think we both misunderstood us:
i used the original mantua parts to make a r/c version
this included a double planked hull, as described in their building instructions
so this kit is definetly double planked !!!!
yes, the mantua kit is definetly better than the amati kit, and more than 1 ft longer

if you intend to buy this kit, have a look at ebay.de by the end of the week
a friend of mine asked me to build his bismarck for him, of course as r/c model

i think building 3 models at once is a bit much, so i decided to sell my titanic hull kit with
3 speed500 motors 12V, cardan joints, prop shafts and brass prop for the middle drive

note the modified keel for the middle drive, was a lot of work to get the 3rd motor in.
i also modified some frames in the middle/fore end to mount 6 or 8 of those 9000mAh cells like i used for the bismarck

cheers

markus



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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #432 on: July 10, 2007, 05:05:47 PM »

Thanks for that Marki

Seems odd though as the Mantua detail site describes it as having a single planked hull

http://model-dockyard.com/mantua/mantua-kits.asp

Is the 2nd Titanic you are building now also a Mantua kit?
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #434 on: July 10, 2007, 05:16:26 PM »

Thanks for tha, interesting info, its a shame Hachette did not use the Mantua kit instead of Amati's as it looks so much better ;)
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miskinmodels

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #435 on: July 10, 2007, 07:50:08 PM »

As the supplier of the planking clamps I feel I must clarify one of the criticisms - namely that it is only possible to put on one plank an evening. I use a fast drying white wood glue (used to use Humbrol Extrarez until it dissappeared) and at normal room temperature it is sufficiently dry for the clamps to be removed in an hour.
With two sets of clamps I can work on both sides of the hull and plank at the rate of two planks an hour rather than one an evening.

Secondly looking at some of the photographs it seems normal for all the planks to join on the same frame. This is a potential weak point and a better and stronger hull can be achieved by planking brickwork fashion with alterate planks joining at adjacent frames.

John Gittins
miskin models
www.plankonframe.com
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #436 on: July 10, 2007, 09:04:58 PM »



OH dear! This don't look good!  :'(    I'm gonna need a lot of filler and sand paper!

       .....someone tell me this is normal at this stage and it will get better..... Please!  :P
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herby

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #437 on: July 10, 2007, 09:13:45 PM »

http://www.drydockmodels.com/planking/ Read that. It's hull planking for beginners. I think it helps little. That's guide that helps me at my first tall-ship build. Hope it helps.

-Herkko


Edit. And yes that looks normal. Well at least normal my build. But they all go fine at end. So no worry just sand it few days and put some putty and give more sandpaper to it =). Did u remember to put glue between planks?
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colin-stevens

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #438 on: July 10, 2007, 09:41:59 PM »

only ever done a few plank on frame hulls,so what do i know, but surely the ends of the planks should be stagered? it will make a much stronger hull, and shape better.
all the best, feeling youre going to need it.
colin
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grumpy old XXX

Captain Povey

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #439 on: July 11, 2007, 03:19:23 AM »

Hi Martin, Er well yes something dosen't look quite right. I think it should be a bit smoother than that as it looks as if some of the edges are out of line perhaps because the plank is not sitting down on the former properly. 2 pins per plank at certain points might have helped. I have had much more glue around too in my planking and have only done 3 or 4 at a time. Anyway do not despair modern fillers are womderful stuff and I am sure a bit of filler will cure all. Cheers Graham
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anmo

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #440 on: July 11, 2007, 08:14:38 AM »

Dear Mr Mayhem,

I represent the Post Office, and I've just received a report from one Mr A. Modelnut that some red rubber bands that are the property of Her Majesty's mail services are currently being used by you in the construction of a rather unpatriotic model sailing vessel of foreign origin. These rubber bands should be returned to their legal owner immediately, kindly wrap them in a 10 note and hand them to your local Postman. If you comply with these instructions, no further action will be taken.

Your obedient servant, Mr A. Letter (Chief P.O. Rubber band reclamation officer)
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caution, may contain traces of nuts .....

HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #441 on: July 11, 2007, 08:25:30 AM »

Martin

 I would start to rub it down with one of these first , then go for a bit finner. He He

Peter
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #442 on: July 11, 2007, 09:04:36 AM »

Mornin' all !
I see the comedians are up early, alive and well !

Thanks Herby I'll look that up ( http://www.drydockmodels.com/planking/ ) but it doesn't appear to be working at the moment!  Not glued between the planks yet......... but I'll just check the instructions again!!!  ::)

Thanks Mr A .Letter, but I will be charging a small collection fee for picking up all the elastic bands on my street everyday!  ;)

Hi Colin, Butt joints, not staggering is what the instructions say (I'm buildings as per the book on this one... albeit, not very well maybe!)  :P

Thanks Peter, but I think I need to start the sanding with one of these:  ;D
   




Seriously though, should I be thinking about lifting offthe bow planks and having another go?


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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #443 on: July 11, 2007, 09:06:06 AM »

But if you do this you will not then be building by the book as you say ;)
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #444 on: July 11, 2007, 09:08:42 AM »

as long as they are solid and will sand to the correct shape leave em,there is another layer to go on isn't there?

Peter
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DickyD

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #445 on: July 11, 2007, 09:22:20 AM »

Let us know when you are ready for your filler Martin  ;)
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kayem

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #446 on: July 11, 2007, 09:35:53 AM »

as long as they are solid and will sand to the correct shape leave em,there is another layer to go on isn't there?

Peter

Martin, you weren't kidding when you told us you'd never done a plank on frame before, were you? Peter is right, but the most important word there is 'solid'. After the glue has set, do any of the planks move even slightly when you press on them? I hope you glued all the edges of the planks, not only where they sit, or from the pics apparently don't sit all that well, on the bulkheads, it looks to me as if you didn't. If there is any movement at all, you're going to have to apply thin cyano a drop at a time where the plank edges meet, until everything is solid, and you can't detect any movement anywhere. Then and only then, you have to sand everything smooth as a sound base for the second planking. The best way with what may be a slightly delicate structure would be fairly coarse abrasive, say #80, used on a block of course, and as little pressure as possible. I'd advise against using filler. If you have low areas too deep to sand out without removing too much from the adjacent planks, glue an additional bit of plank onto the low bit, and sand that down until everything is level, and if you have any gaps between planks, glue in small slivers of wood to fill them. Your Bismarck reminds me of what the Irishman said when a traveller asked him for directions. "Well sorr, if I wanted to get to there, I wouldn't be starting from here!"
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #447 on: July 11, 2007, 09:42:36 AM »

Quote
Butt joints, not staggering

But does that rule out staggering the butt joints Martin? The danger of butting them all on the same frame is not just that it gives a weak spot but it can also lead to a "corner" in the run of the hull which can be difficult to sand out as the curve of the planking is taking a sharp change in direction.

Still, one advantage in building in wood is that you can recover from almost anything - believe me, I know!

As Kayem says, you must get the whole structure solid before reaching for the abrasive. If the planks don't sit tightly against each other you will need a gap filling glue to tie them together but don't allow this to get on the upper surface of the plank otherwise it will weaken the bond when you put the second layer on.
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kayem

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #448 on: July 11, 2007, 09:45:59 AM »

... one advantage in building in wood is that you can recover from almost anything - believe me, I know!

Very true, but you have to be more patient when working with wood, it isn't a material that takes well to being rushed.
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herby

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #449 on: July 11, 2007, 10:01:15 AM »

Mornin' all

Thanks Herby I'll look that up ( http://www.drydockmodels.com/planking/ ) but it doesn't appear to be working at the moment!  Not glued between the planks yet......... but I'll just check the instructions again!!!  ::)





Hmm the link is some how incorrect when i press it.. :S   Let's put it an old-scool way. Copy this addres don't click it.  http://www.drydockmodels.com/ (they site have some protection so no1 cant hotlink anything.) and then forums, at left side of site---> then at same side seek and deartoy HULL PLANKING and click it. Hope u find it

-Herkko
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