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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 829029 times)

Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #750 on: September 10, 2007, 06:52:33 PM »

What are all the German Bismarck builders doing in this regard Down Below?

And the bow extremity is where the concern lies as no info in the mag re sealing it, the only way is via any initiative you come up with yourself otherwise this part will remain unsealed and at risk ;)
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #751 on: September 10, 2007, 08:19:27 PM »

Markus has used a product from Graupner called 'Glattfix' which is a paint on type hull sealer which sounds the bis!

Unfortunately it seems this stuff is not available in the UK but he can get hold of it to send to the UK, it sounds thin  enough to be poured to coat the inaccessible parts and the excess poured out.

Other's have siimply poured a waterproof PVA down the gap and poured away the excess, the only problem with this is that it could be hit n miss if not done carefully, you could do the same with resin.

Most seem to have ditched the PVA n Gauze for resin.

I like the sound of that Unibond PVA stuff mentioned previously.

Suppose its a case of what you prefer and what you are used to handling, but I  do think the extreme bow should sealed simply because of the likely hood of knocks etc on the exterior atwhat is a vulnerable point, once the skin is broken your stuffed!
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #753 on: September 11, 2007, 07:53:57 AM »

Thanks for that Jan O0

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Cargo

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #754 on: September 11, 2007, 09:28:33 AM »

And you can buy some more cans, not only one. Shiping to GB 11.

No, i am not into it  ;)
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gerrybuilt

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #755 on: September 11, 2007, 08:35:14 PM »

Hi Martin,

My big concern is, that, I have glued the fore deck in place. There is now no access to the bow compartments. I sealed the  A B C D sections, as per the instructions, using the gauze, but there was no advice as to the inaccessable forward comps. I think that to reach the parts I should use a can of Heinecken.  It is supposed to reach the parts others wont!!

Seriosly tho'. What if I drill into the deck and pour some 'stuff' into the hole? Any comments?

Gerrybuilt
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #756 on: September 11, 2007, 09:17:09 PM »

.... on the quiet... I'm thinking of painting/pouring a coat waterproof PVA inside the hull (to glue & seal the planks) and using Epoxy Finishing Resin and Glassfibre tissue.... and Bradders is gonna do that for me!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #757 on: September 11, 2007, 10:08:43 PM »

Gerrybuilt,

Do you have access through the bulkhead rather than the deck? If so it doesn't really matter. What I would do in your situation is to drill a hole in either the bulkhead or the deck (it can be filled in later). Then mix up some polyester resin, such as Fastglass from Halfords, and pour it into the bow compartment. Tape off the hole and then wave the hull about a bit to ensure that the resin covers all the internal surfaces. Then mount the hull right way up but with a bow down angle of 30 degrees or so. This will ensure that all the surplus resin accumulates in the lower bow section when it cures where it will provide the reinforcement you need.

Colin
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #758 on: September 12, 2007, 07:56:37 AM »

Good idea if there is only one bulkhead to drill through.

The problem is that are 6 bulkheads and all are individual compartments once planked and access to drill thru these would be just about impossible, however it is possible to pour resin/glue down the inner surfaces from above but once the forward deck is glued into place this would be impossible.

The only way would be to drill small holes in the forward deck at each bow compartment and then do as Collin says, then seal the holes, theses will later be covered by deck planking etc.

Its quite obvious this kit was only ever meant to be a static display model as the bow sealing would then not an issue, the design for RC has not allowed full considertion of lots of things and the bow inner hull sealing is just scratching the surface.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #759 on: September 12, 2007, 08:48:10 AM »

The other option is of course to seal the outside before painting. This could be a fairly large job if using tissue and resin but I have successfully used shellac which penetrates the wood and gives a very hard and smooth easy to rub down finish. Another option would be to "plate" the hull with gumstrip paper using Cascamite/Extramite glue to moisten and attach the gumstrip followed by shellac or sanding sealer on the gumstrip. It's easy to do and rubs down well for the final paint finish. I used it on my Granada model 25 years ago and it has never lifted, even after 5 years hard use afloat.

As Down Below says, it was intended to be a static model and they seem to be making it up as they go along!
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #760 on: September 12, 2007, 09:08:57 AM »

All good info Collin O0

The best bit is that its seems Amati are relying on a coat of varnish to seal the outer of the Hull so the Bow inner sealing will very reliant on exterior varnish and paint to seal it.
I would have thought that the Bow was a very important place to seal due to its vulnerabilty, seems ludicrous to me but then again what do I know ;D

Could it be that Amati's inexperience of RC wooden boats is now showing through rather than the static display models they have expertise in??

Just seen a link to a UK supplier of the Graupner Glattfix hull sealing product.

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/fillers.html



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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #761 on: September 12, 2007, 03:25:05 PM »

Martin

Have you had any thoughts about sealing the removable deck to the hull to prevent water ingress, as I cant see there being any info from Amati to do this.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #762 on: September 12, 2007, 04:25:15 PM »



I've just been out this lunchtime to get some Unibond Super PVA as TrickyDicky suggested but I wasn't convinced it is waterproof, as it didn't say anything about being waterproof on the tin... not that I'm doubting you Dicky!  :)  So I bought some Unibond Exterior PVA Exterior...... I wonder if they all come from the same big tub anyway.  ::) http://www.makingdiyeasier.co.uk/unibond/woodglue.html

I've started painting the interior with PVA now so I'm going to have another go with the builders/plasters scrim tonight. If it still doesn't work, I'll just going to paint a coat of PVA inside anyway to glue/seal the planks.

My preferred sealing method these days is a can of Plasticoat Clear Satin varnish, 2 minutes and the job is done!  :'(

Must ask Shane about sealing the outside of the hull, he seems to have it 'down pat' Here .

I haven't thought about the deck seal yet.... leave me alone!  :D

Martin  ;)


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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #763 on: September 12, 2007, 05:15:37 PM »

 ;D ;D

Bin the PVA & Guaze :'(
 
Why dont you use that Graupner Glattfix stuff noted above as a UK supplier has been found, its simplicity in itself, you can also use it for sealing the hull outer (much better than the varnish being recommended), simply paint on and get some kip :D

Glattfix here we come O0
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #764 on: September 12, 2007, 06:31:38 PM »


Bin the PVA & Guaze :'(
Glattfix here we come O0

I've already started the interior with the PVA so I committed to that.   :'(
I have no idea what changing half way through will do to the wood but it won't be a good effect!  :-\ 

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #765 on: September 12, 2007, 08:20:35 PM »

Fair comment, mind you I suspect the Gauze is to hold the inner planking together as one rather than strengthen it so it might be best to simply persevere as the Glatfix stuff is merely a sealer ;)
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colin-stevens

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #766 on: September 12, 2007, 08:46:41 PM »

if the outside is water proof then why worry so much about the inside?
cover the outside in resin and thin cloth, same as the aircraft folks.
that way water is not going to get in.
colin


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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #767 on: September 12, 2007, 09:03:45 PM »

if the outside is water proof then why worry so much about the inside?
cover the outside in resin and thin cloth, same as the aircraft folks.
that way water is not going to get in.
colin

Through the top, prop shaft leaks, wave swamping....... bad workmanship!  ::)
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #768 on: September 12, 2007, 09:38:15 PM »

Wood must be sealed on the in- and outside, simply use glattfix or similar  ::)
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #769 on: September 13, 2007, 07:59:42 AM »

Glatfix sounds a great sealer but I dont think it also replicate's the task that the gauze is intended for, is not the idea of the gauze to securely hold the inner planking holding it as one/prevent movement?

Why else would Amati recommend it as it is the waterproof PVA part that does the sealing does it not or have i missed something?

In which case to give what amati intended the better method to go with has to be resin and tissue as Colin says , maybe then use Glattfix on the outer as there are areas such as the exteme bow which are inaccessible to inner sealing cos of the daft design ;)

Seems like we have a plan :D
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #770 on: September 13, 2007, 08:24:15 AM »

It's only a problem if you feel you have to go along with the Amati suggestions. If you were building a plank on frame working model from scratch then the normal practice would be to seal the inside with resin to improve rigidity, with or without tissue, although I do like Mike's cleaning cloth idea. Then you would want to sheath the exterior to waterproof it and harden it against the inevitable knocks. This can either be done by impregnating the wood with thin sealer such as shellac or by covering with something such as gumstrip or tissue and resin to provide a tough coating.
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #771 on: September 13, 2007, 09:36:06 AM »

Thanks for that Colin, not a chance of Gauze & PVA, resin & tissue for the inner ad am gonna give that Glattfix stuff a whirl for the outer.

I agree that cleaning cloth idea, very innovative O0
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gribeauval

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #772 on: September 13, 2007, 09:55:19 AM »

I agree that cleaning cloth idea, very innovative O0

It's also cheap, easily available, easy to cut and doesn't cause irritation to the skin like glass fibre can do! 
You can also use it with resin or even polyurethane varnish as well as PVA depending upon your needs/what you have available. ;)
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rem2007

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #773 on: September 13, 2007, 11:28:11 AM »

Hi everyone, been busy on holidays and back now on sic leave, oh joy.....starting week 15 and planking along, new kt as well so appreciate the flower class thread. looks like the regatta weekend was fun according to new isssue of modelboat.
cheers robert
am contemplating glatfix when I get t that stage
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