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Author Topic: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....  (Read 111826 times)

Robbie11

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #225 on: March 03, 2017, 04:42:46 PM »

Falklands upgrade kit sounds excellent. She would certainly look great next to my HMS Plymouth which is finally almost ready for the slipway!
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hama

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #226 on: March 03, 2017, 06:20:02 PM »

This must be one of the most impressive rc-kits available when released!
Is there only one option for her colours as this is before the lengthening?
Keep at it my friend, it's looking fantastic!
Hama
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #227 on: March 03, 2017, 09:49:47 PM »

This must be one of the most impressive rc-kits available when released!
Is there only one option for her colours as this is before the lengthening?
Keep at it my friend, it's looking fantastic!
Hama
Thank you Hakan - You are too kind Sir!!!!  :embarrassed:
Yes, She only had the black and white colour scheme until she was lengthened. Then she took on the blue and white and, eventually, the colours of SNAV of Italy.....  Then again, there is no law to say that the modeller cannot make up their own colour scheme!!

carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #228 on: March 03, 2017, 09:58:44 PM »

With such a short time to go until the Dortmund show, there is no way that we can fit etched brass details such as handrails, vents and steps as we wouldn't be able to prototype the brass sheets in time.
SO.............for our prototype model, we are going to experiment with laser-cut card for some of the detail - even if it might only be temporary.
This evening, I had a play with our laser machine and a sheet of scrap card from an Amazon packet (not the most ideal card material as it is quite fibrous) and managed to produce some ventilation grilles - which fit within the superstructure walls - and a length of ship's railing.
 

 
As said, the card stock was poor quality really but I think this warrants investigating further.  My father used to build card ship models at 1:200 scale and used a lot of laser cut card details on his models.  Strength was added to the card by coating it in superglue.  I think I might experiment with some satin varnish first and then a coat of white paint.
 
What do the esteemed folk on here think?  Producing this sort of detail in good quality card of a suitable thickness might well bring the cost of the kit down as it is very expensive to prototype etched brass sheets.  If strength and waterproof-ness can be added to the card there might just be hope......

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #229 on: March 03, 2017, 10:06:01 PM »

The card cut outs look excellent Carl ! Be aware that Satin Varnish is mostly waterbased these days,so maybe it will cause the card to swell?
I cant suggest an alternative though,sorry.
Things are progressing very nicely on your model,which is more than I can say for the Caronia! Yours though is going to be something really special.
Good Luck
Mick f
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #230 on: March 03, 2017, 10:12:21 PM »

Card is a very practical and underrated material and has been used to build complete working models in the past. Glynn Guest is very fond of it. He recommends and has successfully used model aircraft dope to impregnate, stiffen and waterproof the material which gives an excellent finish for painting and is very durable. Shellac is an alternative and works very well too. I imagine that another option would be DeLuxe EzeCote which is water based and doesn't smell.

Artists card also comes in a range of thicknesses and is cheap as chips - what's not to like really?

Just out of interest could your laser machine work with 0.5mm birch ply - another very good material?

Colin
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #231 on: March 03, 2017, 10:55:21 PM »

Hi Colin - Of course!!! I had forgotten about dope.....dope that I am  :embarrassed: :embarrassed: .  I have read Glyn's articles and, yes, he does use a fair bit of card in his models.  I will experiment with some different coverings and see how we get on.

As for the machine coping with 0.5mm birch ply - no problem at all.  The only downside I can think of (without having tried it yet) is that it needs more laser power to get through and, therefore, could increase the width of the cut line (kerf) thereby making fine detail cutting difficult - but worth investigating nevertheless....thank you!  The ply would certainly give more strength to the railings.

ballastanksian

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #232 on: March 04, 2017, 12:10:34 PM »

On first sight, I thought it was a 3D rendering given the way that the scorching adds an element of 3D to the edges. On further study, at that distance (given the rule is a 6inch one and so quite close to the camera) I think that even with a cheaper card, your results are smooth and in pretty good shape.

My concern with thin ply is wether it will be as strong in both axis'? As ply will have fewer laminations in one direction, will this be exacerbated with very thin ply? One benefit of card is that it has less grain, so it is as strong or weak in both directions. While you are not looking to procuce parts that have to be bent to shape, cutting parts off of the fret might cause distortions as can be experience with plastic sprues and brass frets, but casuing the part to break.

Naturally, a thinner ply will need much less cutting pressure than say etch, and maybe this will reduce the chance of damaging thin ply components.

I think your idea of using card has positives, and if you can find the perfect medium to impregnate and waterproof it, then you can indeed create good parts at a lower cost.

You can get thin MDF/HDF sheets so maybe that is another avenue to persue?



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Howard Q

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #233 on: March 05, 2017, 08:35:04 PM »

Hello Carl. Many years ago I built one of the card models of the SD14, she was built using good quality manila card, (the kit is still available I believe,) so as to be able to sail he,r the entire hull and decks were coated in sealer then coated in resin, she was perfectly waterproof, so much was the strength it was nigh impossible to damage her, I appreciate this would be far too time consuming to do this for your card fittings trials, but as you say card is very versatile and always worth a thought.  Howard Q.
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dreadnought72

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #234 on: March 05, 2017, 08:46:22 PM »

Cheap as chips - G4 pond sealer, a single-part resin, soaks in really well to porous materials, dries to a toughish finish. You end up with a card/plastic surface that'd work great on items like this.


Andy
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Kim

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #235 on: March 05, 2017, 08:52:33 PM »

Carl,
For superfine detail try Mylar, can be cut and etched, on low power high speed (on Laser)


Difficult to find the right glue but at a push roughen the surface and superglue will do the job, might get you through the show.


Regards,
Kim
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #236 on: March 05, 2017, 11:04:32 PM »

Hello Carl. Many years ago I built one of the card models of the SD14, she was built using good quality manila card, (the kit is still available I believe,) so as to be able to sail he,r the entire hull and decks were coated in sealer then coated in resin, she was perfectly waterproof, so much was the strength it was nigh impossible to damage her, I appreciate this would be far too time consuming to do this for your card fittings trials, but as you say card is very versatile and always worth a thought.  Howard Q.

Hi Howard  :-))
I, too, with my dad, built an SD14 but we replaced the manila card shell plating with lite-ply.  The rest of the model is still card - as the designer intended - and sails beautifully.  Still experimenting but will post up the latest attempts in a minute.

carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #237 on: March 05, 2017, 11:06:47 PM »

Cheap as chips - G4 pond sealer, a single-part resin, soaks in really well to porous materials, dries to a toughish finish. You end up with a card/plastic surface that'd work great on items like this.


Andy

Cheers Andy - will take a look.  Looking for something that can be easily added by the modeller whilst the parts are still in their frets to stiffen up the card prior to cutting out and adding to the model.  A spray application would be good - might even do that ourselves before adding the fret to the kit box if we go down the card route.

carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #238 on: March 05, 2017, 11:08:38 PM »

Carl,
For superfine detail try Mylar, can be cut and etched, on low power high speed (on Laser)


Difficult to find the right glue but at a push roughen the surface and superglue will do the job, might get you through the show.


Regards,
Kim

Hi Kim - Hope you are well?
I will take a closer look at Mylar as you suggest.  Only had a quick squint so far at a couple of sites - but the first thing that strikes me is that it may be too flexible for handrailing.  As I said - needs closer inspection!  Thanks for the tip  :-))

Kim

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #239 on: March 05, 2017, 11:17:52 PM »

Hi Carl,
Your right, it is flexible, but here is the beauty - it will spring back not fold or break.
or cut your Stanchions and pass brass rod through it.


Hell of a lot cheaper than brass etch for the prototype.

Regards,
Kim
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #240 on: March 05, 2017, 11:19:44 PM »

Been a busy weekend in the workshop!
 
As well as experimenting with the idea of using card for some of the detail parts such as handrails, stairways and ventilation grilles, we have been cracking on with actually building the model.  I have got to the stage now where I am having to complete the manufacturing drawings as I go along to enable the parts to be cut on the laser so it seems that not much progress has been made. However, as each drawing is completed and the sheet lasered out, that means one less drawing to finish for the production process.
 
Managed to find some quite stiff card that appears suitable for the ventilation grilles - on the prototype at least!  Research will continue for the kit production.............
 

 
The vent grilles themselves are single thickness card with the slats lasered in.  The vent doors are 2 part items - the door itself and the lip/seal around the edge.  The photos show the basic parts in the original card colour.  They will be sealed and then painted when the superstructures get painted:
 

 

 

 
Personally, I don't think it has come out too bad.  Card is far easier to work with than brass, is cheaper to produce the parts and easily replaceable should any damage or loss occur.
 
In other news, we have managed to get most of the bridge unit built.  This will now allow us to take templates for the bridge front with the bridge windows and the lower bulwark that wraps around the bridge front and up to the bridge wings:
 

 
And this is the state of play tonight!
 

 
 :-))

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #241 on: March 06, 2017, 02:45:04 PM »

Carl,

This is taking shape magnificently! The impressive bulk of the Norland is really becoming apparent and thank you for sharing your trials, tribulations and discoveries as you go. The forward bridge section really captures the look of the real thing, and I can't wait to see the first finished model when you get there.

Keep going and best of luck for Dortmund  :-))

Regards, 

Peter
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ballastanksian

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #242 on: March 06, 2017, 09:04:28 PM »

The card pieces do look very attractive in the grey. I can see the attraction of this for warships especially as a good base colour for painting on. I was worried about what seems to be residue in the grilles but wonder if that will dissapear once the vents are fitted?



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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #243 on: March 07, 2017, 12:36:02 AM »

Carl,

This is taking shape magnificently! The impressive bulk of the Norland is really becoming apparent and thank you for sharing your trials, tribulations and discoveries as you go. The forward bridge section really captures the look of the real thing, and I can't wait to see the first finished model when you get there.

Keep going and best of luck for Dortmund  :-))

Regards, 

Peter
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Hi Peter - Great to hear from you and thank you for the encouragement.  Will you be going to Dortmund yourself?
As for the bulk of the ship, I am quite surprised at how portly she appears out of the water but in her day she was one of the largest (if not THE largest) ferry operating out of UK waters.  Really enjoying this build I have to say.....even if my domestic life is a bit on hold at the moment!!!!

carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #244 on: March 07, 2017, 12:42:24 AM »

The card pieces do look very attractive in the grey. I can see the attraction of this for warships especially as a good base colour for painting on. I was worried about what seems to be residue in the grilles but wonder if that will dissapear once the vents are fitted?
Ian - Sorry I haven't responded to your PM yet...I promise I will get to it tomorrow.  Was hoping to answer at lunchtime today but have been stuck in meetings all day.
I am really 'struck' by how the card has lasered so cleanly.  The German card model company HMV use lasered card quite a bit for the details for their models but at 1:200 generally.  I am really tempted to ditch the lasered plastic doors on the superstructure and go with card versions as they come out so much cleaner and crisper.  There are no structural implications and it would save the modeller having to clean up such small plastic parts before assembly.  As for the residue, it is charred paper and can be blown away quite easily - I just hadn't done it before fitting the grilles  :embarrassed: .
Might even prove to be a little 'side line' producing laser cut and etched watertight doors, grilles etc. for other models and warships as you say..... hmmmmm food for thought there..........

carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #245 on: March 07, 2017, 12:47:29 AM »

A few shots of this evenings work - assembling the top deck superstructure:
 

 

 
Making liberal use of the 5mm x 5mm obechi to brace up and strengthen the parts - very little weight added - and sufficient will be provided in the kit.
 
More grilles and cover doors added:
 

 
Also provided in the kit will be sufficient 'I' beams to add to the underside of the overhanging decks - primarily at the rear:
 

 
Finally, a couple of overall shots port and starboard of the state of play as at midnight!!!!
 

 

 
Night night!!!!  :-))

ballastanksian

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #246 on: March 07, 2017, 08:09:00 PM »

I hope you slept well Carl as your late nights are producing a lovely model.

Re your sideline idea, I think that your only limitation is that you can only laser cut 2 dimensional parts. May I suggest you try cutting portholes and rigols as these are often a tedious item to make or produce, so doing a load in various sizes and on frets would be a winner. Maybe there is a limit to how small a diameer you can cut though.
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #247 on: March 07, 2017, 10:00:36 PM »

I hope you slept well Carl as your late nights are producing a lovely model.

Re your sideline idea, I think that your only limitation is that you can only laser cut 2 dimensional parts. May I suggest you try cutting portholes and rigols as these are often a tedious item to make or produce, so doing a load in various sizes and on frets would be a winner. Maybe there is a limit to how small a diameer you can cut though.

Portholes you say Ian?  Hmmmm....... I think I am going to have to start paying you for all these ideas  {-) {-)
 
How about these then?  300mm dia glass area at a scale of 1:96.  One represents an opening light, the other fixed.  Just knocked together following your suggestion so could probably improve on the quality with better quality card and more experimentation on the laser settings.  We could even cut the clear glazing to fit!!!
 
As cut:
 

 
After gluing together with thin superglue - this adds a little stiffening to the card as well:
 

 
I like the idea!!!!  Will most certainly come back to these ideas after the Dortmund show  :-)) :-)) :-))

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #248 on: March 07, 2017, 10:26:30 PM »

I think you are going to get enough ideas and projects,to give up working for a living.
Will you pay Flo overtime rates lol.But I must admit the portholes are looking good!!
Cant wait to see that model,you are really progressing with it,and it will be a sure fire ht for you.
Wish my Ramillies could progress that quickly,and with such quality.
Mick F
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ballastanksian

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #249 on: March 07, 2017, 10:30:41 PM »

Given your deadline for completion towards the show, I am impressed you had the time to develop them Carl!

They do look very detailed given they are made from 2 dimensional parts. Regards payment, my mind pops these ideas out as and when. Most are daft but a few seem to work. It is the ability to take an idea and make it work that is the skill. How many times have the theories of scientists and inventors been proven and developed. You have a machine and you know how to wield it.

Are you whittling Ferry tonight?
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