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Author Topic: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build  (Read 31703 times)

bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2012, 12:12:46 PM »

F’o’c’sle Detailing

Some real fun fiddly bits involved here, this planked area is just 2 inches wide.  The radial grip bars around the capstan were T sections cut down from Plastruct I beams, and brush painted on a card before gluing in situ.  The chain hawse entries were shaped in litho plate. The additional chain bollard was not supplied so I fabricated it in ABS.  Fitting the chain ends into the cast metal fittings required a jig so I could hang the chain ends into the upturned fittings for super gluing.  Anchors, anchor cranes, and railings to fit next.

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pugwash

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #101 on: January 23, 2012, 12:37:50 PM »

Really coming to life now Bob  :-)) :-)) :-))

Geoff
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #102 on: January 24, 2012, 03:31:55 PM »

Thank you Geoff.  Everything so far has only increased my respect for the experienced modellers here!  The number of new skills one has to master are legion.  1/96 is not an ideal scale to learn on.  Took me all day to do this 5 bend 11 stanchion section.  Hopefully as I progress I can find a better method to do these more neatly.  Once the joints are super glued it's solid, but up to then it is like micro macrame.


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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #103 on: January 24, 2012, 05:26:33 PM »

Bob,
Be careful only using superglue on railings and stanchions.
If it gets knocked then the glue can break and any tension in the section break a far greater number of joints.
A few stanchions soldered will stop this spread.
I alwaysb solder every joint and have had them knocked flat and raised them carefully without any lasting problems.

Bob
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #104 on: January 24, 2012, 05:50:22 PM »

Thanks for the suggestion Bob.  I did try soldering. I had bought a nice 12W miniature soldering iron for the job, but before the solder melted the brass wire became like HD springs pulling it all out of shape – just as the heat started to melt the plastic deck I had so carefully drilled.  I thought about making up a hardwood jig for each section, clamping/wiring it all securely before soldering, but getting the fixing holes to line up accurately might be difficult? The 0.4mm thick stanchions have only about 0.1mm land around the rail holes.
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Harley

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2012, 05:57:59 PM »

Thanks for the suggestion Bob.  I did try soldering. I had bought a nice 12W miniature soldering iron for the job, but before the solder melted the brass wire became like HD springs pulling it all out of shape – just as the heat started to melt the plastic deck I had so carefully drilled.  I thought about making up a hardwood jig for each section, clamping/wiring it all securely before soldering, but getting the fixing holes to line up accurately might be difficult?


But thats exactly the way to do it Bob. Getting the holes to fit is not that difficult, as you put your
modelpiece - where the railing wil be mounted. draw a line around it when placed on the hardwood.
and drill the holes for the stanchions. that way they will have the same position on the hardwood
and you have the drawn lines to bend after.  thats the way i did my admirals walk on the dreadnought.
and that was also the very first time i soldered a railing.



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Harley

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2012, 06:01:21 PM »

Forgot to mention that i soldered at around 340 degrees. this made it very easy to
only get solder to the joints and not to all the brass  :-))

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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #107 on: January 24, 2012, 06:08:59 PM »

Bob,
I usually solder mine in position.
It makes it far easier to bend the wire when in position.
I use bakers fluid ( a liquid flux) painted on with a small brush.
I set a small 90 degree reference and use a large pair of angled long nose pliers.
This acts as a heatsink so no damage to the deck and allows the James lane type to be held together.
With this method I do not use any adhesive on the deck as the small tension placed on the uprights keep them well in place.
Each upright is soldered individually.
When you get into the swing of things I can easily solder 15 feet of railings  in a couple of hours.
I use a 25 Watt Iron as you can work much faster lessening any heat damage.

Bob
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #108 on: January 24, 2012, 08:10:52 PM »

Sorry guys, I wish soldering was an option.  It would have been so much easier, but as I said even ‘dry’ assembled sections fitted into drilled holes do not want to stand on their own.  A bit like a bead necklace.  Any heat applied seems to twist it all out of shape as brass wires ‘spring’ unequally under heat.
I apologise if I seem frustrated.  I could try building a flat section on its side, held to a block of wood with double sided tape to hold everything down and prevent it moving around.  However, the one I’ve just done required the five bends in each rail done first, then threading the stanchions like beads to get corner pillars at roughly 45 degrees in the centre of the bend.  Maybe the trick is to avoid corner pillars and bend afterwards?
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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #109 on: January 24, 2012, 08:35:35 PM »

Bob,
It sounds like you are holding the iron for too long against the joint.
I must admit I am not a great fan of etched brass stanchions, they just won't take as much abuse as the split type.
Each to his own though if it works for you and you are happy with it that is all that matters.

Bob
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #110 on: January 24, 2012, 08:57:58 PM »

Appreciate your help Bob.  I am just a little frustrated at the mo'.  Perhaps I should try turned stanchions. There is so little 'meat' round the etched hole compared with the larger volume section of the 0.5 wire which means the bar heats up too fast before the wire gets to solder temperature.  I was not having a go.  Honest  O0
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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #111 on: January 24, 2012, 09:08:33 PM »

That is why they are not my favourite type of upright.
You can do it but you must use a heatsink on the upright.
It will always be awkward with 2 metals of such different volumes but with a bit of practice it can be done.
My warning about superglue comes from watching a complete stretch of railings joint failing after the superglue got brittle after time.
A relative small area of damage turned into a large repair after the railings were bent and took out a few joints.
The superglue is brittle and can get worse with age.
Didn't think you were having a go at all.

Bob
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #112 on: January 24, 2012, 09:33:57 PM »

Must admit I too opted for super glued railings, because of heat concerns.
Had a slight accident, dropped a large F cramp on to the deck and now need to fix a section of railing.
If it was soldered, suppose could release (melt) all joints and straighten every thing.
Used round stanchions, an old billings kit.

Have also been looking at etched bars stanchions and note the commentary about them.

Is there a tutorial/thread on handrails, if not, could someone please start one.

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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #113 on: January 24, 2012, 11:20:15 PM »

There certainly is............... CLICK HERE

Bob
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DickyD

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #114 on: January 24, 2012, 11:45:10 PM »

If I am using any manufactured stanchions I fix the stanchions first then I fix the horizontal wires next by using a hot iron and solder, I find a hot iron solders quicker and less heat is transferred to the deck.

If the stanchions are just vertical wire I do tend to assemble them on a flat surface lying down.
I then fix to boat when soldered.

I dont use super glue on the joints at all.
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #115 on: January 25, 2012, 12:58:33 AM »

Your link was interesting Bob, those split stanchions look to have a lot more metal for solderability.  Also good sized deck holes.  Mine are drilled 0.4 dia for spigots 1.5mm long, so when just pushed into the deck they are not really free standing before gluing, which may be part of my 'bead neckace' problem.   
11mm turned brass stanchions would be solidly free standing and solderable but work out to 66p each, and over 200 needed.
For long straight runs the 'build flat on its side' method sounds good, but for the 3 or 4 bend sections I will still be challenged.
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #116 on: January 25, 2012, 05:41:07 AM »

There certainly is............... CLICK HERE

Bob

Bob,

Thank you well explained, especially about getting the 'wire' straight.  :-)) :-))
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RaaArtyGunner

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #117 on: January 25, 2012, 05:42:27 AM »

If I am using any manufactured stanchions I fix the stanchions first then I fix the horizontal wires next by using a hot iron and solder, I find a hot iron solders quicker and less heat is transferred to the deck.

If the stanchions are just vertical wire I do tend to assemble them on a flat surface lying down.
I then fix to boat when soldered.

I dont use super glue on the joints at all.

Dicky,

Thank you.  :-))
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #118 on: January 25, 2012, 11:42:45 AM »

Thank you:
OK guys, after taking your tips and suggestions on board, with the limitations of these etched stanchions, I have formulated a plan to try.  Assemble the stanchion rail section, superglue all but the top rail, then using this Maplin heat shunt (sort of tweezers clip) http://www.maplin.co.uk/heat-shunt-3930 so I can solder the top rail joints. The glued joints should hopefully hold it all in place for the brief period when heat is applied, and the heat shunt reduce deck melt risk if I'm quick.  Should make it all stronger.  :-))

Portholes:
Meanwhile I am getting on with the 60 portholes which in a moment of madness I decided to glaze.  Hull drilled 3mm prior to spraying.  Cut 5mm lengths of clear 1/8" dia acrylic rod, polished ends and slightly bevelled inner face. Holes opened up to 3.2mm then secured glaze plugs flush into hull.  Using John Haynes etched portholes I tweezed up the eyebrows as per notes he kindly wrote on the delivery paperwork, then fixed portholes over holes. 
Paint eyebrows.  Minimal touch up round holes.  No problems.  Slightly extended plugs should aid internal lighting.
That went a lot better than I hoped.   O0
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #119 on: January 30, 2012, 10:38:34 AM »

With the decking etc done the time came to add the pre-prepared sub assemblies and fittings.  All of a sudden she looks nearly complete.  It seems ages now, but it’s only been three months, mostly evenings.  Along the way I’ve had a lot of fun, at times torn my hair out, but have learned a lot during this build.  The three big magnetic access hatches are barely discernable now, but lift out fairly easily.

Still a fair bit to do.  Railings, ship boats, masts and rigging.
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pugwash

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #120 on: January 30, 2012, 11:45:32 AM »

Bob I have just been soldering lattice masts on a frigate and someone on another forum suggested "Carrs 188 Solder Paint" it is a liquid suspension of solder and flux
and you paint it on with a fine (very) paint brush and then take the iron to it and just touch it on.  Works a treat and does not leave blobs of solder.
Not cheap but worth it.  I shall be doing all my guard rails/wires with it as I solder all three wires anyway.
Cheapest place seems to be Antics online though their P & P is a bit pricey so its worth ordering other things at the same time.
A bonus with it is after you paint it on, because you are not holding solder wire in one hand you have an extra hand to hold tweezers etc to keep the piece in position
whilst you solder

Geoff

http://www.anticsonline.co.uk/523_1.html
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #121 on: January 30, 2012, 11:50:54 AM »

I agree with Geoff, solder paint is very useful, especially for railings and you don't get all those blobs to file down afterwards.

Colin
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #122 on: January 30, 2012, 12:32:31 PM »

Thanks Colin & Geoff.  I must restate that the problem is more basic than soldering, like start with getting 'chain mail' to stand up on its own, even to super glue, has been fraught. I need to solve that issue first.  
If I can fine detail and do 2mm planking then assembling railings should be a doddle?.  
First I upped the wire size from 0.3 to 0.5 to get a less sloppy fit in the holes.  That helped.  Next I have ordered different stanchions which appear to have more 'meat' around the holes plus a larger spiggot with a more pronounced shoulder which may help in making them free standing in the deck holes. Current type will not stand alone even in a press fit 0.3mm hole.  Flat, with allmost no shoulder.
I now have a heat shunt (tweezers) which may help reduce deck melting before the top rail reaches solder temperature.
I have just ordered some Carrs 188 Solder Paint.
Wish me luck !  Maybe its just the stanchions I am using?  I am sure I would have no problem with turned ones, but they work out to 66p each.
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Dreadstar

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #123 on: January 30, 2012, 03:24:53 PM »

This is turning out to be a really stunning build Bob,congratulations. :-)) :-))
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #124 on: January 30, 2012, 03:57:15 PM »

Thank you Dreadstar.  Once I can sort out the railings I will be almost there  O0  Tee hee !
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