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Author Topic: OTW Vanguard help  (Read 78522 times)

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #375 on: March 27, 2012, 01:42:25 PM »

Find it strange myself David but after all the running around and testing the only conclusion is that the BEC/speed controller is interfering with the radio the crystal and receivers are duel convertion. I am going to go and buy a couple of MTronics marine speed controllers and use as a swap out on the vanguard and one for the Trafalgar I am building I don't have any problem with the Akula running that set up even with the fc-16 their is no hint of interference at all think Mr Cloak puts something in the fibers of his hulls  O0 {-). As to the voltage drop and juddering I had that problem with my U47 and was advised to use separate batteries and that did solve the problem with U47, unfortunately it didn't do anything for the vanguard I will get a new speed controller and hopefully that will solve the problem. thanks for the tips and advice though David.

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #376 on: March 27, 2012, 02:42:40 PM »

I prefer Microgyros ESC over Mtroniks- less expensive and better specification, and they also have some nice sub friendly features like a programmable 2 second built in throttle failsafe.

I'm perplexed by this problem, owning an FC16 myself I know there is nothing unusual about this radio, unlike some of the later Futaba sets which don't conform to the older PPM standards and can cause issues with some third party kit.

You can purchase  high current linear BEC's. Jeti do some nice models, but they're quite expensive and bulky when compared with the switch-mode models, as you need a chunky heatsink. Course on a sub, if you were to make one of your end caps from metal, you have a fantastic heatsink that will get rid of any amount of heat.

You can also make your own up quite cheaply, but that requires a little electronics knowledge. the BEC's fitted to the majority of ESC's  are generally good for about 1-1.5A, so at 5 volts you're looking at a maximum of 7.5watts. Most bog standarad servos draw between 1-2 watts under normal duty, although they can draw up to twice that if stalled or labouring heavily.

In the case of your vanguard, although you have four servos hanging off the BEC, three of them are fairly low duty, the rear hydroplane servo will be the busy bee coupled up to a leveller. You should be okay so long as you haven't fitted anything fancy like digital servos, which are thirsty little critters.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #377 on: March 27, 2012, 03:29:40 PM »

First of all may I apologise for an error on my part the speed controller is not the one stated (wife cleaning up) the actual speed controller is a FUSION Aquapower FS-AQP128. Link here  http://www.logicrc.com/?ItemId=P-FS-AQP128&s=c:0,c:50,c:50-30,c:50-30-10,c:50-30-10-20 only has a BEC of 5v/1A sooo now I am at a dead end because that 1A is probably not enough to power the 4 servos with an auto leveler as well but I cant for the life of me understand why I get the same results with a separate battery powering the receiver.
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U-33

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #378 on: March 27, 2012, 04:01:58 PM »

Quickie for Mark...foam en route mate, left the PO here @ 1523hrs.


Rich
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Rich

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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #379 on: March 27, 2012, 04:27:42 PM »

not into quickies  :embarrassed: thanks Rich I owe you a pint when we get to meet up mate

Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #380 on: March 27, 2012, 05:40:15 PM »

A 1A BEC is pushing it a bit, but suck it and see.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #381 on: March 27, 2012, 09:05:27 PM »

Andy thats what is in the Vanguard and it wasn't playing ball with the radio I have put my Laser 6 into her and she seems to behave even with the BEC still in, I will have to wait and see my next idea is to purchase a proper nuclear reactor for her bet that works  {-) %% going to be going for a new speed controller I think need to buy another one for the Trafalgar anyway may as well buy two
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #382 on: March 28, 2012, 01:24:01 PM »

What receiver were you using in both instances? I thought you had a dual conversion Hitec model in there originally.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #383 on: March 28, 2012, 03:49:10 PM »

Andy  1st receiver was the one that came with the radio FP-R118F the second receiver used is the Futaba R137F both receivers work away from the speed controller with no problem.

Radio that is in now is the Hitec Laser 6 which wait for it........................................................FAILED  <*<  to run the Vanguard with the Aquapower speed controller. So it`s of to Steve webb on the morrow to see if he has the same Viper that is in my Akula. And hopefully that will solve the problem

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #384 on: March 28, 2012, 04:55:45 PM »

Fair enough. It's very unusual to get any problems with Futaba kit, it's well put together.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #385 on: March 29, 2012, 12:26:26 PM »

Just orderd this little beastie hopefully it will end all of my woe`s and get me up and running with no problems

http://www.mtroniks.net/details1.asp/ProductID/190/sid/10/Viper-sub10.htm#

Regards Mark.
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U-33

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Rich

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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #387 on: March 29, 2012, 01:26:13 PM »

No oooopppss Richard they are two totaly differant items your link is to the 10 amp marine version with I think 1 amp BEC the one I linked to is 40 amp with a1.5 amp BEC buils specificaly for subs. I did look at the exdemo section of the site but they don`t have the one I want their  <*<. but thanks anyway will possibly help someone else with the link or even remind them that their is the ex demo section as well.

Regards Mark
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U-33

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #388 on: March 29, 2012, 01:46:29 PM »

 :embarrassed:

I'll get me coat...
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Rich

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Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #389 on: March 29, 2012, 01:49:48 PM »

That's an interesting ESC - I haven't seen it before.

Looks like they have responded to submariner problems  i.e using high voltage (12v) systems.

I wonder if they use switched mode or analogue voltage regulators? Analogue probably - in which case no Radio Frequency interference as pointed out by SubJohn.

Thanks Mark for pointing this one out. Could well be worth the (fairly) high price. Let us know how it works out for you.

David

P.s and Richard put your coat back , I'm sure it is a rather new ESC!
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #390 on: March 29, 2012, 02:07:49 PM »

No No David let him go  tone and lower and neighbourhood ha ha ha

It was good of Rich to point it out as I said it may help someone else in the future also it was a hell of a lot cheaper than the one I bought so well worth a point out

will keep you all informed of how it works out. The controller that Richard pointed out is actually being used in my Akula which I am realy proud of I can turn up at the pond connect the battery and basicly chuck her in and an hour later the battery will be flat so time to change it hope that the Vanguard will one day get that way. and I am reasonably optomistic about the Trafalgar being the same as the Akula.

Regards Mark

P.S bought a piller drill and ajustable hole cutter yesterday how easy is it to cut disks out now not a sign of wedging anything in anything now  {-)
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #391 on: March 29, 2012, 03:40:35 PM »

The main difference with the 'sub' versions is an increase in the linear BEC current from 1.2 to 1.5A to allow for extra servos, and a very large current rating of 40A. Not quite sure what sort of sub would need a motor pulling 40A, but it won't be taxed in the Vanguard.

There not new models, they've been around for a while now.





thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #392 on: April 01, 2012, 05:21:49 PM »

Got the Vanguard wet today went quite well except for the turning circle she dont turn on a sixpence question now I am at the extreme travel on my servo cant put a bigger servo horn on the servo or at the rudder end is their any mechanicle way to increase the throw of a servo mechanicaly the other option I have is to remake the lower rudder out of perspex and make it bigger so their is a larger area.

some pics now









Mark.
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #393 on: April 01, 2012, 05:27:59 PM »

The sub looks low in the water but I had put some water into her to get the jet drive a bit lower in the water

regards Mark.
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U-33

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #394 on: April 01, 2012, 05:28:52 PM »

Thought about retro fitting a bow thruster, Mark? Either the proper Graupner ones (expensive) or a screenwash pump, sucking water in and blowing it out the other side...works a treat.


Rich


(looks good to me)
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #395 on: April 01, 2012, 06:08:07 PM »

I had  thought of that Rich but the problem is the battery sits up front so their isnt much room up front but hey great minds think alike  :-))

Mark
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U-33

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #396 on: April 01, 2012, 06:15:03 PM »

I fitted one in my LA...two holes, one each side of the hull, s/wash pump mounted....somewhere, wherever it fits....connect the pipes up, proper job! I've been looking for the photos, but I can't find them, otherwise you'd have had an idea of what I'm babbling on about.  You can always trip the pump down, remove all the brackets and lumps n' bumps, makes them a lot smaller.

Boat looks good though, mate....nicely menacing.


Rich
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #397 on: April 01, 2012, 06:23:29 PM »

Told you to build a Valiant class!  :}

Vanguards high aspect ratio plus a shrouded prop equals a large turning radius I'm afraid.

Thrusters work when the boat is static. Once you start moving they become ineffectual. You can put thrusters in stern as well as the bow, in fact they're more effective at the back, as they have a longer moment from the C.G.

A larger rudder will improve things, but don't ever expect it to turn like your Akula. Anything more than 35 degree throw on a control surface is pointless, as beyond that angle, it just stalls out.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #398 on: April 01, 2012, 06:28:20 PM »

I used to use EMPBC's chairman's (Ken Bellman) large Sealink ferry, that had screenwash pump bow thrusters fitted, and they worked perfectly with the boat under way or stationary.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #399 on: April 01, 2012, 07:44:15 PM »

The problem with thrusters is that they tend to produce very little force when compared with a control surface unless they're very powerful. Even at moderate velocity, the rudder on a Vanguard class at 1/100 will generate over half a pound of force.

At stop or very low speed, the thrusters have time to act on the hull, at higher speeds they don't have that luxury, so the effect is much reduced.
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