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Author Topic: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.  (Read 62342 times)

Bryan Young

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Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« on: March 28, 2012, 07:32:25 PM »

Winter nearly over. Fed up with hibernation. Itchy fingers want to get started on a new model.
Browsing through my back issues of “Model Shipwright” I came across a “Modellers Draught” plan and article on a 45ft Admirals Barge. I’ve always wanted to have a go at one of these things, but never got around to it.
     This is really my first opportunity to describe a build from “Day One”.
In the past there’ve been questions raised about the actual cost of building a model. Always quite horrifying when everything is taken into account! So, at the risk of frightening at least some of you off building models from scratch, especially if you want a GRP hull….
So here we go.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2012, 08:01:27 PM »

The first step was to scan the plans as published in Model Shipwright….mainly because I don’t wish to ruin the originals. These plans were published at 1:24 scale which would produce a model just over 24” long. OK, I know that doesn’t equate to a 45ft boat…but it does when you realise that the 45ft part is the length “between perpendiculars”. I.e, the length between the stem and the rudder post….the bit behind the rudder post was simply ignored, and this boat has around 6ft of hull aft of said rudder post.
Also, I intend to build the model at 1:12 scale (50” near enough). This will make it a nice companion to my “Bluebird of Chelsea”.  It will also be 9” wide with a max draught of  3.5”. Drawing out the “profile” of the hull in the old fashioned way (ruler and pencil and dividers) at 2xthe published plan took a couple of days. No cost involved.
The model shown in the pevious pic is only a few inches long.....probably smaller than what appears on your monitor screen.
Using the computer and the printers scaling facility the printing out of the 13 section drawings took another morning. Still no real cost. Ink usage was minimal and paper is cheap. The rest of that day was spent searching my own archives for anything to do with this type of boat. Alas, everything I’ve found so far ignores the interior…the bit where the Admiral would park his butt. Any info on this would be most welcome.
     I also intend to build the hull from GRP. Which means making another mould….something I promised myself never to do again! However, as this will be another “one-off” project I intend to sell the mould when I’ve finished with it…and at the very least recoup my financial outlay But I’m already getting ahead of myself. Have to make the “plug” first. The materials for this will be the first “cost”. 
First buy is plywood for structure of plug;   £11.00.
I would assume you have material for the building board? If not, then add at least £6.00. £17 already.
Now that the various paper templates have been drawn and cut out, transferring the drawings to the ply is reasonably easy….the hard part is to get all the section drawings to fit in the minimum amount of space (the ply).
At this stage I’m beginning to take advantage of the (hopefully temporary) disaster that has closed down the Mayhem site. I’m certainly not gloating about it, but as all I can do is “stand-by and wait” it gives me a bit of “free time”. One thing I’m sort of grateful for is that my instinctive wariness of the PM system has helped. As you well know, when a PM is received the senders e-mail address is not forthcoming….that’s why I like “direct” mail. As far as I’m concerned the “hidden” addresses should not be allowed. But I guess I’m in a minority with that one! BY.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2012, 08:11:13 PM »


Hi Brian,

I'm really looking forward to this build. I rather fancy the hull looks 'rowing boat' type. Am I close. ?   As you plan to make a fibreglass version, will this show any clinker lines, if there is any.?  I just sit back and watch.   :-)) 

Cheers

ken

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Neil

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2012, 08:53:48 PM »

winter finished on the 21st march Bryan with the beggining of the spring solstice........mind you....thank gawd, we didn't get a winter this year, yipppeeee...........the coldest we got round here was one night at -1c....all the rest were well above it......that's the kind o' winter i like,  :-))
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 09:23:24 PM »

Kenny, not really a rowing boat at 50ft long with a steam engine in it! (mine will be electric).
The hulls were carvel built but could well have shown plank edges..which I hope to show in a very low-key form.
By the way, was the pic of the liner of any use to you? Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 09:31:50 PM »

winter finished on the 21st march Bryan with the beggining of the spring solstice........mind you....thank gawd, we didn't get a winter this year, yipppeeee...........the coldest we got round here was one night at -1c....all the rest were well above it......that's the kind o' winter i like,  :-))
Winter may have finished....but I wrote my preamble a couple of weeks ago and it was ruddy freezing up here...now, all of a sudden the temp has risen to around 70*F. Long may it last. BY.
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Norseman

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2012, 09:34:26 PM »

Nice subject, and I'll tag along for the build.
Interesting idea to tally the costs.

Dave
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2012, 09:45:34 PM »


Yes the Carvel built is beautiful to look at.   :-))

I have replied to your message on your Ships Blog pages so as not to clog up this thread.

regards

ken
 
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kraftykid

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2012, 12:07:06 AM »

can we have pics  i love scanin through a good old lot of pics i do  ok2
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triumphjon

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2012, 08:11:38 AM »

thats an intesersting subject , i had a billings one that was damaged stock when i worked for bristol model supplies ( shop now sadly long gone ) which was a fun boat to sail ! good luck with your build , jon
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kiwimodeller

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2012, 10:52:09 AM »

Brian I presume it is volume 84 of Model Shipwright with the plans that you have? The plans that came with mine I am sure were full sized. There are also plans by Norman Ough available at 12:1 for the 50ft Picket Boat version which has a straight stern. I am building one of these on a fiberglass hull from Models by Design but I have to admit that the counter stern Admirals Barge version would probably look even better. I am sure you will enjoy building yours but you need to put a steam plant in it - to hell with the expense! Cheers, Ian.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2012, 04:07:03 PM »

Ian....seductive as your sggestion is...at my age and probably spending a year building the thing, I cannot see myself spending another few years making a steam plant! Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2012, 04:58:47 PM »

Ian.....again. Sorry, I didn't fully answer your post. The plans I'm using are the MS (84) set but I've doubled the size. I also looked at the straight stern version but despite the complexity decided to go for the "spoon stern" version. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2012, 05:05:14 PM »

More expense…..1.5mm ply @ £10 ( 48” x 22”).
                             10 x 2” steel brackets @25p ea = £2.50.
                             Pack of 12 glue sticks                   ££4.00
Total expenditure so far………………………………………”27.50.

I tried posting this last night but got the dreaded “Gateway” thing.
The 1st pic is simply a layout of all the ¼” stations and the ½” “spine”.
I presume you realise that the spine has to be laid upside down on the building board.
Yonks ago I realised that even “good quality” ply tends to have a bend in it. At first, I used to rout out a groove in the building board and so straighten out the bend. It didn’t take long to realise that was both wasteful and expensive. So now I use 2” steel angle brackets to hold the spine straight. This has another advantage. If the stations are glued only to the spine and not also to the building board then the whole unit can be lifted out/off the board and viewed the right way up. Plus, the same building board can be used for many models.
Looking at the section cut-outs you may be able to discern a couple of small slots where the shaped part of the station meets the rectangular part. Into these slots is fitted a longitudinal strip of 1.5mm ply. Eventually this will give me a nice clean deck edge on the mould. A lot easier than trimming off rough edged GRP.
At first glance it would appear that I use an excessive amount of ply. Not so.
On many vessels the keel is not parallel to the water line…and just about every vessel has some degree of sheer. Therefore the water-line is effectively the only horizontal datum point you have. For this model I’ve simply drawn a line parallel to the water line but 1.5” above the highest point of the hull (the stem). This gives me some more advantages. For one, it means that I can reach inside the hull while planking-up and glue in any bracing pieces that may (will) be required. I tend to use 1/32” ply (cross grain) for these. Pays dividends when fairing in planks or when joining 2 plank ends together.

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Capt Podge

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2012, 09:02:52 PM »

I'm staying in the background all nice and quiet but following your every move Bryan.
Lovely neat work  :-))

Oh, and congratulations ref Gold Ranger  O0

Regards,

Ray.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2012, 09:22:38 PM »


Yes indeed.  A nice bit of carpentry there Sir.   :-))


ken
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Wetwater

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2012, 11:03:33 PM »

Looking good.  :-))  And what a posh building board you have.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2012, 04:12:27 PM »

Thank you all for the interest....I hope I can sustain it!
The "building board" didn't start life looking "posh" at all. Years ago I bought a chunk of 3/4" ply to use as a building board for some model or other....but when I completed "Northumbrian" I needed some sort of stand to put it on. So I turned the board over to it's "clean" side, curved the corners and put "iron-on" trim around the edges...then varnished the whole thing with teak varnish. The underside that I'm using now still bears the scars of previous builds.  BY.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2012, 03:48:34 PM »

Now to begin "planking".....
No sooner got the profile edge strakes cut and glued into position when the glue gun gave an almighty “bang” and became a dead glue gun. So the moral here is to always expect the unexpected…especially where money is concerned.
But now the “thing” is ready for planking. The shape of the hull doesn’t really suit the ½” plank width I normally use for proper ships, and ¼” is (in the main) too small and fiddly…but 3/8” seems to be OK. My first and unexpected task was to make a 5ft long “fence” for the bandsaw that would allow the blade guard to be lowered to around 1/16” above the ply sheet that I’m cutting. No expense here as I can use old stock…but add a “fiver” if buying. I think it will take 40 planks altogether….but I’m usually wrong.
Bandsaws aren’t really made or intended for cutting long straight anythings…or so I’ve been told by “one who knows”….but my cheap’n’cheerful long fence seems to work OK….to the annoyance of one of the neighbours. The new glue-gun is a quantum leap better than my old and cheap “Bostic” (£9) item….but at £25 it ruddy well ought to be! But as it is an unforeseen expense I’m going to add it in. So now I’m up to £52.50.
The 2 pics that accompany this episode both show a strange “wobble” in the horizontal edge strake. This is an illusion …the actual “thing” in full profile is a nice pure arc.
After fitting the 1st 3 planks nearest to the “keel” it’s quite evident that the planks are becoming reluctant to “conform” to the hull shape. Hence the fitting of a more central plank that does conform. Now I’m approaching the point where I have to consider when and where to fit “stealer” planks. Ah, problems, problems. But such is what is supposedly known as the “fun” in scratch building!
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tugs62

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2012, 05:10:51 PM »

nice to see how its done ive often wounded how to do this  :-))



thanks from another brian :-))
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John W E

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2012, 05:50:16 PM »

hi Bryan

Have you ever considered using closed cell foam (the blue type) to block in between your frames; rather than planking?  You could then coat with car body filler and sand to shape  :-))

According to the Model Shipwright magazine numberf 84; the originals were double diagonally planked and not carvel.

aye
john
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2012, 08:37:07 PM »

 John...Ooh, lovely post to reply to.
Foam.....yes, I did discuss it with my inner self and rejected it for reasons that may well become clear.
It may well be a "good" material in some instances. But I have (as always) other thoughts.
For a start...re-read MS84 again and you may well discover that only the inner layer of planking was diagonally laid. The outer one was fore and aft. And this is what I'm trying to replicate. I also believe that the outer planking was 4" wide, which makes my choice of 3/8" pretty reasonable.
     But this is a "plug" I'm making...not a "plank on frame" model. So, being aware that even on such a prestigious vessel as an Admirals Barge, there would still be indications of some plank landing edges. So it's my desire to at least give a hint of those landings on the eventual hull. It may work, or it may not.
As always with my models I'll be going down the GRP route. Strengh, longevity and all that. However, if the hull was to be a varnished and shiny one then perhaps, just perhaps, I could rustle up some long forgotten and unwanted skill to make one. Until that day arrives I think that GRP is the answer. For me, anyway.
BUT for whatever reasons you are reading this build, I'm grateful...even if it's only a dispute. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2012, 08:43:19 PM »

I'm staying in the background all nice and quiet but following your every move Bryan.
Lovely neat work  :-))

Oh, and congratulations ref Gold Ranger  O0

Regards,

Ray.

Nice and quiet....ruddy typical of a sub-mariner. Enjoy the CD. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2012, 08:45:33 PM »

can we have pics  i love scanin through a good old lot of pics i do  ok2
Krafty... do you also read a lot? Pictures only tel a small part of a story. BY.
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JayDee

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2012, 09:17:16 PM »

Hello Bryan,

Looking at your photos the sheer of the deck looks a bit odd.
Or is it just the camera angle??.

John.
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