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Author Topic: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.  (Read 62375 times)

Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #225 on: January 29, 2013, 05:37:55 PM »

The Wheel.
     This thing has been bugging me for what seems to be an age. Particularly the large main wheel. This is 1.75” in diameter and to be made of 1/8” brass tube. It proved to be beyond my capabilities. A Caledonian member of this forum (an engineer) volunteered to make it for me. The drilling of the spoke holes ( 1/16”) was easy enough, but the central boss became a real trial of fortitude. I know it should be made from solid brass bar, but as I only needed the end result to be ¼” thick I was blowed if I was going to buy a metre of it for only that amount. I eventually found a length of brass tubing (3/8”dia), turned down a length of hardwood to be a tight fit and took it from there. Once again, the hole drilling went OK, but parting it off only resulted in mangled bits of brass. For the 4th attempt I changed tack and cut through the brass tube with my small pipe cutter. This also had the unexpected advantage of really nipping the cut tube ends into the inner wood core. Then it was an “easy” matter of cutting through the wood with a razor saw and smoothing the 2 faces flat then painting the faces with “brass” paint. The curved “boss” is a real brass (possibly gold) sequin type bead out of my useful “bits’n’pieces” tin. The spokes are Araldited into the boss. The centre sort of self- centralises when the spokes are fitted. The last 2 of the 4 photos show just a rough assembly. The steering chains are yet to be fitted before final assembly and fixing to the main ER casing.
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vnkiwi

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #226 on: January 29, 2013, 05:59:24 PM »

Beautiful piece of work, and the thinking behind it.
Well done that man.   :-))
Keep up the good work
cheers
vnkiwi
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #227 on: January 29, 2013, 07:58:43 PM »

Beautiful piece of work, and the thinking behind it.
Well done that man.   :-))
Keep up the good work
cheers
vnkiwi
Thanks for that. I'm still not sure about enlarging the "handgrips" on the spokes. At the moment they are all about 5" long.....enough for a hairy chested matelots fist to grab. But they are only 3/4" in diameter when scaled up. I think that another overlapping tube would be better. Perhaps. BY.
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Norseman

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #228 on: January 29, 2013, 08:46:07 PM »

http://antiquesimagearchive.com/items/D9765561.html

I quite like the idea of a partial wooden sleeve on them.
Could that fit in with your scheme Bryan?

Dave
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #229 on: January 29, 2013, 09:19:21 PM »

http://antiquesimagearchive.com/items/D9765561.html

I quite like the idea of a partial wooden sleeve on them.
Could that fit in with your scheme Bryan?

Dave
Not a "sleeve" Dave, my wood is a filler inside a brass tube.
The "other" Brian has used a wooden sleeve on his winch barrels.
Too many Bryans and Brians in Tynemouth! BY. (the "Bryan").
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vnkiwi

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #230 on: January 29, 2013, 09:31:39 PM »

Hi Bryan,
maybe I'm miss reading here, but I think what Dave is trying to say, is that the hand grips on the extended spokes, could you put a "wood sleeve" over them, instead of an added brass sleeve, to thicken them up.
Brown Brothers ships wheel, brass with eight spokes, marked Rosebank Ironworks, Edinburgh
 
like in this picture
cheers
vnkiwi
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Norseman

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #231 on: January 29, 2013, 09:40:07 PM »

 :-)) yes that was what I meant  :embarrassed: I'm not too good at explanations really.

Dave
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #232 on: January 30, 2013, 10:29:16 AM »

Oops. Sorry Dave. My fault. I should have thought a bit more before replying.
I've been on many ships that had brass wheels with wood hand grips, but all the photos I have that show a bargs wheel indicate brass handgrips that just seem to be extended spokes. But plenty of time to consider my options. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #233 on: January 30, 2013, 04:12:31 PM »

This has to be the worst couple of mistake making weeks of the entire build. I was going to complete the 2 flagstaffs, but changed my mind and decided to rig the funnel. Sounds simple? Not on your life! This segment of the build should really be included in the topic “What not to do when building a model”.
First of all I bimbled along to the model shop and bought the smallest rigging shackles that “rbmodel” make, plus the threaded mounting brackets. Just how they produce these superbly made things for 35p each and 22p for the mounts (at 22p) beats me. The shackles are a little oversize, but when “needs must” beggars can’t be choosers. They’re also a bit on the bright side which looks a bit “bling”…but fine when painted matte black. It also took me at least 20 minutes (each) to fit the screwed pins into the shackles. No problem for the eagle-eyed, but a pain in the tripes for me.
       Then I made up some lengths of 11 stranded (5 amp fuse wire) for the guys. This has worked well for me in the past, but that was always for longer lengths of “standing” rigging on large models. Didn’t work this time because I only wanted 5” lengths, so any little “kink” was impossible to pull straight. OK, let’s try “rope” disguised as metal. When painted with “steel” Humbrol “Metalcote” and burnished I had my result. So far, so good. Then came the making of the “spliced eyes”. Being a tad over-jubilant, I simply formed an eye and wound the join with small twine. Wrong. The “splices” look crude and too heavy. What I should have done was to fray the end of the “rope” and using a bit of superglue, simply twist the 2 parts together making a better looking job of it. But I didn’t, and will now live with it. It probably would have been wiser to use a thinner material for the “splice” winding.
But at the moment I’m not going to shed any tears as I have a sneaky feeling that the funnel, although light in weight may affect stability when on the water. Height above CG etc. If that proves to be the case then I’ll have to investigate the possibility of making a duplicate in styrene/ABS. In truth, this possibility is the main reason I haven’t had the main vents plated. If I do need a “plastic” funnel, then I may as well get all 3 items done together.
Another (possible) bone of contention could be the use of “rope” instead of the more common bottlescrews. I maintain…backed up by some photos….that as the funnel needed to be regularly unshipped, this method would be quicker, easier and less “messy” than fiddling around with the bottlescrews. Pays your money and make a choice really.
Total cost now up to £740.  Just approaching the 10 month mark in this build from its conception.
 
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kiwimodeller

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #234 on: January 31, 2013, 09:17:33 AM »

Bryan, I cannot see you having a stability problem. My F/G hulled version has a large steam engine and a big boiler with a copper funnell attached to it. I have done some initial flotation tests and added 0.75kg of lead shot in the bottom of the hull. After her first sailing test recently I am going to be adding more ballast to bring her right down to the waterline so I am sure you will have to add enough weight in the bottom of the hull to more than compensate for the funnel. When finished I intend to have a painted stainless steel dummy funnel over the outside of the copper one so if you have trouble with stability I will be in deep you know what! Cheers, Ian
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #235 on: January 31, 2013, 04:28:32 PM »

Ian.
Thank you for your response re. my stability fears. (the boats,not mine,you understand). Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that your model is of the transom stern version. Mine is the odd-ball “spoon stern” type. The hull of the transom stern version is a lot “fuller” than mine.      From a buoyancy point of view, on mine the lines are so fine that I can basically ignore anything positive that the for’d 10” and the after 16” provide. A total of 26” out of an overall length of 51”. Which is as near as dammit to 50% of the boats length. Hence my concerns. Any more suggestions? All are more than welcome!. Bryan.
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kiwimodeller

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #236 on: February 01, 2013, 09:33:06 AM »

Sorry Bryan, I had not considered what a difference the counter stern and finer lines of the Admirals barge version might make but the plans I have from Model Shipwright for your version still show that hull with a steam engine and boiler in it so therefore it must have been considered that it had adequate buoyancy. If you are building a reasonably light version then surely you will need some ballast which, if mounted low in the hull, will counteract the funnell? Cheers, Ian.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #237 on: February 01, 2013, 10:37:02 AM »

OK Alan. We'll  just have to wait and see, eh?
Regards. Bryan.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #238 on: February 02, 2013, 12:27:14 PM »

Well the time has finally arrived when I must transfer the final building to the “workshop” to get on with such mundane stuff as making the prop-shaft supports, the rudder, fitting the R/C gear and other odds and ends to make the thing work, hopefully.
Just a few things to do on the upperworks. Rig the cabin lighting (I intend using the lifebuoy on the cabin roof as the on/off switch).  Get Mrs.Y to make up the cabin curtains, fit the voice pipe and get the vents plated.
Unless I can dream up anything else to do! But Spring is on its way so the workshop may soon be habitable again.
I’ll leave “outdoor” photos until I get the vents done, so these 3 photos may well be the last for awhile.
The 1st one is the steering pedestal fixed and the internal chains fitted.
2nd is a general view of the middle bit minus the vents.
3rd is my “quirk”…the addition of the RFA emblem on the bows. As I’ve already said, I reckon that in this day and age the RFA Commodore deserves the status of a “Barge”. If a Dockyard Admiral can have one, then so can he. I might even put an RFA ensign on the back end. That’ll infuriate the purists, but sod’em.
This build has been so different to my more “usual” work that it’s been a bit of everything for me. Frustration, occasional anger, much learning and head scratching (especially in the early days of the cabin and casing). It also gave me its fair share of fun, enjoyment and satisfaction. The ARMD in my right eye certainly hasn’t helped!So, until the next time…..not to long I hope, I hope I’ve managed to entertain you at least a little.
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chipchase

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #239 on: February 02, 2013, 12:42:43 PM »

 First class Bryan, :-)) looking forward to seeing her on the water.

Norseman

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #240 on: February 02, 2013, 12:48:00 PM »

I hope I’ve managed to entertain you at least a little.
It's been a lovely read Bryan - really enjoyed it all so far.

Dave
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Jerry C

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #241 on: February 02, 2013, 01:15:32 PM »

So real. The lads are going to need Brasso on draught for that funnel!
Jerry.

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #242 on: February 02, 2013, 01:39:16 PM »

smashing job Bryan - let me know when she is goint out on sea trials
Geoff
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Arrow5

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #243 on: February 02, 2013, 02:02:05 PM »

Super job.   For your bow badge try and find the company that makes the enamel lapel badges. I dont know if they still do them. maybe they would advertise in Navy News ( if that is still going)    I`ve got a picture somewhere, they would be about the right size. about 1.5 cm
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grendel

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #244 on: February 02, 2013, 03:46:59 PM »

I carved a broads cruiser bow badge from pewter, I used a fairly modern half pint tankard obtained for pennies at a boot fair.
Grendel
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #245 on: February 02, 2013, 04:23:44 PM »

Do I gather from the previous 2 posts that the crest "could be better"?
I'm sure it could, but remember that your'e looking at a photo that had to be re-sized (and therefore coarser) to fit the constraints of the allowed sizes. In "real life" the crests look a lot better and more readable. Also, I couldn't really justify the outlay in getting only 2 "one-offs" made. I can't imagine anyone other than me and the RFA Commodore wanting one! And I bet he's got his own version anyway. Thanks for the thought though. BY.
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Netleyned

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #246 on: February 02, 2013, 04:35:46 PM »

Was there an RFA when the steam picket/barges were plying the harbours?
Love the build Bryan and yes the Commodore deserves  flags and crests.

Ned
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Norseman

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #247 on: February 02, 2013, 05:28:13 PM »

Just popped back and looked again at those Dolphins - they really do make a big impression  O0

Dave
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Arrow5

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #248 on: February 02, 2013, 06:04:06 PM »

Oh yes a crest in metal to match the dolphins.  I found the basis for you to add the RFA motif your self if they don't have it  already.   have a look at www.mycollectors.co.uk/content/lapel-Badges/naval-ships-badges.aspx  Only a couple of quid plus postage.
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Bryan Young

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Re: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.
« Reply #249 on: February 02, 2013, 06:19:02 PM »

Dear Ned, and all others on this forum….
A very much potted history of the RFA.
It goes back way into the mists of time when the RN was busy “Ruling the Waves” all over the globe. Re-supplying ships of the RN more often than not found themselves in parts of the world where supplies were either non-existent or sparse, at best. The RN (at the Governments behest) was constantly engaged in Blockading places, and sometimes that meant years of more or less just sitting there. Privation must have been terrible. But then the Gov’t had the brainwave of chartering Merchant ships to load up with supplies and sail off to find the “Fleets”. These ships were known as the “Pinks”. They rapidly became notorious for their pilfering, cheating and other “bad behaviour”. So another way had to be found.
A more “Official” one.
Eventually the “Fleet Auxiliary” was formed. Merchant manned, but owned by the Crown. Strict rules and all that.
That “Service” was so successful that it was awarded the title of “Royal Fleet Auxiliary Service” in 1915.
But even that wasn’t a particularly good solution. All these ships trotting around the world to be basically Ocean going harbour supply ships. Not much good for ships at sea.
Methods were developed to supply coal to RN ships at sea. Using baskets (literally) of coal transferred to the warship by wire…the warship towing the supplying ship. Purgatory.
But then came the Oil burners. Floating pipe-lines were developed, and well into WW2 the RN and the RFA relied upon a modified method of “stern refuelling”.
This changed radically when captured German ships were found to have the flexible “rubber” hoses to allow abeam refuelling. We latched on to that…followed by our American cousins. Technicalities and progress apart, the system hasn’t changed much.
But to answer Neds main question, was there an RFA around when steam picket boats were being used. Yes, of course it was.
The modern RFA has evolved into something quite unique in the present world. It remains Civilian Manned”. Which means that the crews are not subject to RN discipline (can’t be executed for calling the Captain a “pleb”), except in wartime when just about everyone comes under some sort of universal “law”.
The RFA personnel also get a 100% salary increase when serving in a “War Zone” (much to the chagrin of both civil and service people). But I imagine that may well change.
From being treated as “Second Class”, the RFA is now more a civilian manned warship. Guns and so on operated by civilians. Aircraft (not civilian manned!).
God knows how many aircraft the more modern RFAs can operate, but even the old “Rosalie(Grange) and Austin regularly had 5 Sea Kings aboard and operating. Not bad for a “Merch” is it? BY.
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