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Author Topic: Bryan's 'Modellers Draught' 45ft Admirals Barge build.  (Read 63643 times)

dreadnought72

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2012, 09:49:08 PM »

John, I'm convinced it's the camera angle.  :-))

You're looking at a sheer (dip to the midpoint, upside down here) and a curve (inwards to bow and stern) from a funny angle.

It'll work. Bryan wouldn't let us down!  O0

Andy
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2012, 10:59:13 PM »

"The Funny Bulge"......
It's really a very odd one, is this. Even when looking at the actual "thing" from any angle but directly on to the profile there does appear to be an anomaly. But when viewed directly that anomaly just goes away. It worried me for awhile....OK, perhaps 10 minutes or so....until I loosely laid a vertical plank against the stations. It fitted perfectly. After a few more minutes of head scratching I realised that the combination of very slightly bending the (what do I call it?) edge plank both across the grain and logitudinally caused the unsupported outer edge to rise a little ..trying to regain its original form.  Sigh of relief. The bit I need to be "pure" is fine. Both glass optics and the human ete can play tricks!. Bryan.
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JayDee

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2012, 11:34:28 PM »



 OK  :-))
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dreadnought72

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2012, 12:18:27 AM »

Both glass optics and the human ete can play tricks!. Bryan.

So true.



Andy
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #29 on: April 02, 2012, 12:52:27 PM »

So true.



Andy
A great pic for April fools day!. Well spooted, whoever took it. Bryan.
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deadwood

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2012, 10:25:45 AM »

Is that the spokeswoman of the Flying Plank Trust?
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2012, 10:27:27 AM »

Having learned how to suffer the pain caused by hot glue applied to flesh and with a new supply of “Elastoplast” to hand I was ready to continue. Mrs.Y says that I remind her of the old Kenny Everett sketches in which he showed how to do DIY. That’s loyalty for you I suppose.
What with the halogen heater and the halogen work-lamp going full tilt I managed a few hours planking up during the Arctic storms of the last couple of days.
1st pic (0965) shows the usefulness of having access to the interior while planking up and re-inforcing.
2nd pic (0966). That’s the palm of my hand positioning a strip of 1/32” ply (cross grain) as a reinforcing strip. This thin ply easily takes the contours of the hull and substantially strengthens it.
3rd pic (0968). The stbd side planking nearly done (port side is at the same stage). The use of the 1/32” “false framing” is clearly shown here….and is especially useful when 2 planks have to be butted together.
The keel and curvature of the stem still have to be faired in. The stern is a rather complicated shape so I’ve decided to make it as a block from car body filler…the projecting bit of the “backbone” indicates the profile, but not the squared off corners of this bit. No sanding down has yet been attempted…more joys to come.
  No more expense as the Elastoplast was “to hand”.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2012, 10:49:30 AM »


That's tidy.  I see you wear your watch at work.    {-)

Just a quick question.  How long does the 'Hot' glue take before you can let go please ?

regards


ken
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larry w

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2012, 11:10:38 AM »

HAPPY EASTER KENNY
                                I use hot glue gun a lot , set time about 50 sec cure time 1hr but its bloody hot to the skin i wont be with out one now .
                                look out for the next Lidel diy  event that's where i bought mine and its a good .   LARRY
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2012, 12:52:28 PM »

Kenny.
My "new" (but now very messy) glue gun has 2 heat settings. Hot and Very Hot. As you can imagine, a lot of the planks are twisted and bent to conform with the hull shape. Using the glue gun on its hottest setting, I find the adhesion is almost instant. Certainly not anywhere close to 50 seconds.
As for my watch. It's an Omega Constellation Chronometer that I bought in Gib during 1963. At £93 it was almost one and a half months salary! Worn it every day since then. Bryan.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2012, 08:20:45 PM »


Thank you that info guys.   :-))   I shall venture into the Hot world of sticking.

Brian, that watch is quite valuable nowadays. I thought it looked classy. That's why I mentioned it.   :}

Cheers


ken
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2012, 06:06:33 PM »

More posts on the hull "plug" will follow quite soon.......
But looking ahead (as always) for looming problems one that keeps me awake at night is the pair of Dolphins that grace the rear sides of the VIP cabin.
The ones I've actually eye-balled have always been chrome plated....apparently over brass.
My problem is how to make a pair of them at 23mm high.
Any (polite) thoughts/notions/ideas etc will be welcome.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2012, 08:17:18 PM »


That's just under an inch tall.   %)

Have a look at bathroom products in the shops. It reminds me of a typical bath type shape, either on a bottle or soap !!


ken
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Norseman

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2012, 10:34:17 PM »

Maybe you could look at earrings Bryan ........ in a manly way that is  :embarrassed:
http://www.aosdanaiona.com/product/aosdana_jewellery_dolphin_earrings/

It might help to know the classic name for those dolphins - are they maybe from a crest?

Dave
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #39 on: April 09, 2012, 10:40:20 PM »

Yeah, I used to have a similar "Dolphin" as used on towel rails, toilet roll holders and so on , but "Dolphin" don't use them any more.
I guess what I'm really after are thoughts on "material". Carving the things in one piece is more or less out of the question. So casting in some form seems to be the way to go. Would "Plasticene" do the job? The basic shape may (or not) be obtainable, and the skin scales could (repeat, could) possibly be done by just small depressions. I just don't know. hence the question! BY.
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2012, 10:45:14 PM »

Maybe you could look at earrings Bryan ........ in a manly way that is  :embarrassed:
http://www.aosdanaiona.com/product/aosdana_jewellery_dolphin_earrings/

It might help to know the classic name for those dolphins - are they maybe from a crest?

Dave
Thanks for that. The "head" part of the earing is about right, but the tail isn't. No sign of size either. But £56 seems a bit steep for a small detail on a model! Thanks anyway. Bryan.
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Norseman

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #41 on: April 09, 2012, 11:22:47 PM »

Ha ha spend £56 - no just look around was all I meant Bryan %% {-)

If I see anything close (for pennies) when I'm out with my daughter I'll get them
- then you can cut up and press into plasticine if the position is wrong.
Pity it isn't Owls you want - she has a nice pair of those.

Dave
£56 - just cracks me up.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2012, 11:17:04 AM »

Try typing   "Dolphin shape"   into Ebay, Brian.

The answer might be here.     %)


ken

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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2012, 02:29:22 PM »

Ok. Finished the hull planking today…exactly one month since I first had the notion of building this model. I haven’t been “racing”, but with my bandsaw working correctly and the new glue gun really showing its paces the planking went pretty smoothly. Especially when I spent a fair amount of March sitting in a deck chair!
Made up the template for the deck edge of the aft end…yet to be proved in practice.
A problem that’s been bugging me since I started this model…..the extended keel.
When I was building “Bluebird of Chelsea” I had a problem with a similar arrangement. No problem fitting the thing and making the mould. The problem arose when laying up the actual hull within the mould. Getting the mat and resin into what is to all intents and purposes a very narrow but deepish slot was difficult, plus I was worried that my poking and prodding the resin/mat into the slot would interfere with the release agent. As it turned out there were only a few “blemishes” to be filled. So I was pondering fitting the keel and stempost after the main hull was removed from the mould….fitting them with “slow” epoxy and then pinning them to the hull. Both methods seemed to have advantages and disadvantages. So I’ve eventually decided to try to make it all in one piece again. Has anyone come up with a spray-on release agent yet? The last stuff I used was from a sample tin of (American) wax….but to buy a full tin would probably double the outlay for the plug/mould and hull combined.
Also removed the planked up plug from the board to eyeball it the right way up…looks OK so far.
      Today was a) A reminder as to why I promised myself  to never again build A GRP hull. b) I’d forgotten how tedious rubbing down “Easy Sand P38” can be. (the guy that came up with the name “EasySand” deserves some sort of award for mendacity). c) What an unholy mess the hardened “filler” looks before sanding down. All my neat(ish) planking never again to be seen by a human eye-ball. I think the rubbing down process will take longer to do than all the rest of the work done so far!
I’ve deliberately tried to make the new photos look as rough as possible…just as a warning to others who may be contemplating going down this road. Don’t get me wrong thogh…I’m not despondent about it. In fact I’m just looking forward to the day when I can see a nice smooth plug, then a nice smooth mould and then a nice smooth hull…then model making can begin. This bit is just hard labour.
More expense….£10.90 for the tin of P38. Total so far £63.40. Mounting up.
Yesterday I posted a drawing of one of the pair of decorative Dolphins …but made a stupid error. I inadvertently gave its size as 23mm…momentarily forgetting that I’m building at 2x the plan scale…so each dolphin will be 46mm tall (just under 2”) Sorry about that. A bit large for ear-rings!
One “good thing” todays efforts have brought is the success of my little template for the stern area of the hull. When I’ve got it sanded to shape I think it’ll look just fine. So I’m pleased I plumped to make the spoon stern version rather than the squared off version, although the latter version still looks very handsome….as shown by the posted drawing of one.
A note to Kenny….A nice thought to Google “Dolphin Shape”, but this pair bear no relationship to any known real dolphin. More like the whimsical things that used to be drawn on old charts alongside puffed cheeked cherubs.

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John W E

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2012, 06:44:47 PM »

Hi there Bryan

A quick question - the mould you are going to make - is it going to be a 2 piece mould (split down the keel centre-line)?  If so, the correct professional way to overcome your problem and how they actually mould sailing yacht keels - is before the mould is assembled in 1 piece, they polish the insides of the moulds when they are separated and then lay gellcoat up (keeping the 2 moulds separate).   A layer of tissue matting goes on top of the gellcoat when it has gone green, then on top of the tissue matting there is a layer of 1 oz chopped strand matt goes over the top of the tissue matt.   This is allowed to go green - not hard - in other words still soft.  The edges which mate the mould are trimmed flush and the two halves of the mould are brought together.  Down the centre joint there is a very narrow strip of glass matting laid down, which has also been 'wetted' out with resin.  This is then forced in the narrow keel area - it is again allowed to turn green - and then once its green you commence your buildup of matting and resin - without fear of you poking through and disturbing your gellcoat/release agent.

Last bit, if you have a couple of old 'inner-tube Air valves' you can incorporate these into your mould - when you are building it - in areas next to the keel.  So, when you come to release the mould from your plug - and also your hull from the mould - you can inject hot water or compressed air through them.   Obviously, you remove the valve interiors and plug with a bit of wax to stop the resin/gell running through.    It does leave a bit of a mark on the hull, but this can be polished out.

Aye
john
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2012, 09:37:15 PM »

A “quick question” John? I think not.
First of all, I’m not moulding a yacht keel.
Secondly, as you very well know, I’m not exactly a newcomer to the art of building GRP hulls, so there’s no real need to address me as a juvenile.
Again, as you are very much aware, I’m equally conversant with making split moulds…my recent successes at the Shields show should have taught you that.
No, what you are trying to achieve is to pre-empt my future posts on the build of this model. Your solution to the “filling” of the narrow channel which will form the keel and skeg is not the way I intend doing it. I quite enjoy at least trying out new ways of doing things rather than just going down the same old roads.
As far as I can see at the moment, the only “error” I’ve made so far was this morning when I (mistakenly) used the remains of an elderly tin of P38….hence the rubbish finish. I caught this error in time to realise my error….and the use of new "gloop” has produced a surface more to my liking. BY.
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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2012, 04:37:46 PM »

Brian
Have a look at Captain Podge's Avatar.
The Submariners Dolphin badge has two dolphins
at 28mm each.They are the long nose species so if
you can get hold of a badge they might work.
Just measured mine and they would be 25mm with the nose
shortened.

Ned
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2012, 05:59:14 PM »

Ned, I talk to "Podge" every Sunday and never once thought of that! I think I may twist his (non-podgy) arm a little and have a ganders at the "fish". I wouldn't be at all surprised if the RN had stuck to tradition and sort of made the sub-mariners things the same, but smaller, than the ones I'm looking to make. Thanks for the bit of sideways thinking!. Bryan.
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Kim

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2012, 09:01:31 PM »

Would "Plasticene" do the job? The basic shape may (or not) be obtainable, and the skin scales could (repeat, could) possibly be done by just small depressions. I just don't know. hence the question! BY.

I quite enjoy at least trying out new ways of doing things rather than just going down the same old roads.

Hi Bryan,

I know what you mean buy travelling old roads ... maybe this stuff might interest you for your Dolphin ...
http://www.trycut.co.uk/

Also and this is just a guess, without seeing the actual plug ...
The hull may be able to be one piece moulded, with the wood effect ? (we do your Bluebird in one piece  :-)) )
You know where i am if you'd like to chat..
Regards,
Kim
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Bryan Young

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Re: the start of a new build
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2012, 02:46:12 PM »

Kim….do I detect a slight quiver of interest here? The Barge hull is in many ways not dissimilar to that of “Bluebird”, with the obvious exception of the “spoon” stern.
The link to “Trycut” is interesting (more than interesting really) but I don’t have the machining equipment to carve such an intricate item.
    I’m rather chuffed that you appear to be following this new build, but as I’m still at the mind numbing “rubbing down” and fairing up the plug this part of the build is a slow process…as far as writing about is concerned, at least.
As this build will in all probability be my last one (earlier statements to that effect notwithstanding!) I’d dearly love it to be my best model ever. Sight problems will just have to be (hopefully) coped with.
Alas, as with much “stuff” in my “filing system” I’ve lost your personal e-mail address. Could you remind me of it and I’ll send you a more pertinent e-mail. Bryan.
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