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Author Topic: Bob's H.M.S. Polyphemus  (Read 220621 times)

Ian K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #400 on: September 16, 2014, 11:34:11 am »

Hi Bob,


To answer your question on maintenance, yes everything is either held in place with brass hex head bolts, stainless shafts and grub screws and nylon material or brass gearing/toothed racks.


The strip down takes about 3 mins, putting it all back together..........a good bit longer, due to setting all the alignments and gear meshes.


The only part that is sort of semi fixed, is the micro steering servo for the bow rudders, this was stripped, water proofed and fitted inside a water tight box, with 2x 'o' rings on the square drive shaft. the complete servo module was then bedded down on clear sikaflex 291 i cure.


Sorry for the dusty look of some of the parts, should have given it all a blow off with the air line first!


Ian
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #401 on: September 16, 2014, 08:14:12 pm »

That is impressive to see the ram. I did expect you to then show a brass torpedo along side suggesting some sort of launch system.

Polyphemus has to be the most fantastic looking vessel, even more so than the Novgorods.
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Ian K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #402 on: September 16, 2014, 09:13:26 pm »

Hi Ian,


Sadly due to space restrictions inside the bow area, there is no way to make a launching system.....believe me I tried to figure it out.
Everything fits into an area 20mm wide, by 50mm long for the bow torpedo cap system.
The cap swivel gearing, blanks off any available space, as does the bow rudder mechanism. Which occupies an area of 85mm in length and a maximum usable width of 55mm.


The four beam firing submerged torpedo tubes, could have been made to work, quite easily, but I wanted to keep the scale look constant through out the model. I chose to use one on each side as the pumped ballast intake and outlets.


The Whitehead torpedo's at this scale are only 5.75mm in diameter, and 58mm long so couldn't really be reliably self propelled.....at least not at this moment in time.


I really do not want to hijack Bob's build thread, Only he asked me to post images, after our chat on Saturday.




Regards


Ian
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #403 on: September 16, 2014, 09:38:28 pm »

Hi Ian.

No, that is fair enough, thread-jacking is easily done.

It interests me how this vessel as a model seems to attract innovation and experiment above the usual ship model, but then its semi submersibility and the other unique elements make this almost a requirement.

I originally thought it a shame that the hull was not 1:96th, but then seeing Bob and your work, I realised that it is hard enough fitting the gubbins in it as it is, without miniaturising the space further. Hull weight would increase proportionally thus effecting boyancy etc so increasing the challenge of fitting out.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #404 on: September 16, 2014, 10:22:20 pm »

1/60 scale is enough (just) to get all the equipment fitted for a semi submersible and other working features, plus smoke and sound system.  Not saying that at 1/96 it couldn't be done but you'd be into the realm of watchmaking.  Nice to see two of us are working to replicate the functionality of the original.  Of course building it as merely a surface runner would be easy, but that belittles the fascination of this unique warship.  Its very nature invites you to push your limits.

Progress
I have almost finished the redesigned control panel.  Reworking the large amount of wiring is not made easy by my having opted for six separate watertight compartments, besides the two ballast tanks. Looms are sealed in where they pass though the bulkheads.  The intent was that even if two compartments flooded there would still be sufficient buoyancy to bring her in.
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #405 on: September 17, 2014, 09:53:27 pm »

Excellent. I do hope you or Ian get Poly on film as it would be a unique sight especially the submerging/rising effect.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #406 on: October 14, 2014, 11:32:26 am »

Gradual progress is being made on the control panel refurbishment (follows on from my Reply #394).  All very tight for space with wiring behind.  IP67 switches mounted in ABS frame, which includes a neoprene stuffing box and cover to limit water collecting above the switches.  New charging sockets fitted, the rear terminals of which are sealed with epoxy.



As stated before, the water damage was from the inside, but I am being ultra careful now.
Now I am building in a support frame made of brass angle underneath.  This will have neoprene gasketing, not relying on RTV sealant around the edges.  The soft rubber sealing plugs are for the charging socket recesses.

The re-wire behind will be challenging.  Once this is done I can get on with the internal wiring rework and air tube plumbing.  New air pump and much better air release valve.
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #407 on: October 14, 2014, 08:39:14 pm »

You must feel like you have built three polyphenus' by now Bob! If my electrics in future projects are a tenth of the complexity and work, I will be quite smug:O)
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #408 on: October 22, 2014, 04:25:04 pm »

HMS Polyphemus

The control panel is a lot simpler than it appears. One circuit each for the two battery voltage sets, each with a changeover / charging power switch, charging sockets and some LED’s for function indication.  Avoids having to open it all up to charge or turn on/off.

Armament

Now this is more exciting.  Contacting Shapeways.com about producing the guns for this ship I was pleasantly surprised at their rapid response.  Despite being an unusual variant at an odd scale I received a PM within hours saying it was now available to order on their catalogue.  Less than two weeks later I had a set of six immaculate 3D printed 4 barrel Nordenfelt machine guns on my workbench.  The barrels are hex, and even training gear threads are there.

    Gun is 24 mm long

Speed of response, quality and low cost all Five Star IMO.  Only problem is, do I make the turrets out of clear acrylic for a sectioned view inside, otherwise all you are going to see are the ends of the barrels poking out through a slot.

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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #409 on: October 22, 2014, 10:06:09 pm »

Do as you suggested but have a couple of part clear/part painted turrets (Make the turrets out of clear acrylic tube possibly available from J.Perkins or EMA at Sepperton, then you only have to paint one side and mask the rest off). This effect should not be noticable out on the water but will be when on display at shows etc where you could have larger print outs of your CAD design displayed to help explain the armament.

Sorry if you explained this before Bob, but did you draw the program for the guns? If so you could sell them to other Polyphemus builders to recoup your costs? They do look gorgeous, I can see them selling in different scales for other warships.

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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #410 on: October 23, 2014, 07:51:33 am »

Sorry if you explained this before Bob, but did you draw the program for the guns? If so you could sell them to other Polyphemus builders to recoup your costs? They do look gorgeous, I can see them selling in different scales for other warships.

Good idea re turret painting. I only need to make up the cylindrical support bases

All design credits to Mayhem member Marmoi (Mark) at Shapeways.com
See https://www.shapeways.com/model/2767369/polyphemus-nordenfelt-4-barreled-x-6-1-64.html?li=aeTabs

Bob K
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #411 on: October 23, 2014, 08:36:03 pm »

EMA is a mecca for model makig materials. I hope you find a tube of the right diameter!
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #412 on: October 25, 2014, 03:08:08 pm »

Nordenfelt Machine Guns

Gently cleaned the 3D printed parts, rinsed and left to dry.  Cutting from the printing sprues was a delicate operation, but very little trimming required. 
The two supplied 3D parts, the gun and the traverse mounting, were exactly as original but incredibly fragile at this scale.  Sorry, I cheated, and fitted a square ABS shim between the two to give the gun assembly some handleable support. The most fun was in making the magazine handles from very thin brass wire.

I had to fabricate the deck mounting columns, measuring deck to barrel height from the plans and found some good close up photos of the mounting. I used ABS tubes and a Litho ring as base plate to accommodate the deck bolts.



Very pleased with the result, although they will be inside turrets which should at least help protect them from damage.
I will leave two turret doors open so the guns can be seen.

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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #413 on: October 25, 2014, 08:36:41 pm »

Now where did your crewmen come from? They look like figures from a wargames company.  28mm figures are quite suitable for the scale you are building in!

The guns look awesome; I am impressed.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #414 on: October 25, 2014, 09:24:33 pm »

Thanks ballastanksian.  The figures at this unusual scale were indeed from a wargaming firm, in Canada.  They took a lot of online searching for.  I am gradually building up items for this ship so when the wiring rework is complete hopefully things may progress more rapidly.

PS:  Video of how the guns work:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gu8GgzDiS90
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #415 on: October 25, 2014, 09:59:08 pm »

Well pace yourself Bob one step at a time and get ot all working fine for the lake.
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #416 on: November 10, 2014, 03:57:18 pm »

Bob,  I'm a wargamer and have been following this post with a great deal of interest although the Polyphemus I've made is at 1:1200 scale.

I saw the figures you have sourced and was wondering whether you have seen the UK firm, Ironclad Miniatures, range which includes a Nordenfeldt and two crew.  Here's the link:

http://ironcladminiatures.com/en/british-victorian-sci-fi-figures/72-nordenfelt-machine-gun-british-naval-crew.html

I have asked the guys at Ironclad if they will produce a helmsman and deck officer with a megaphone and they tell me that these should be out by Christmas.

Good luck with the model, it's a fantastic piece of work!

Cheers

Nick
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #417 on: November 10, 2014, 07:33:30 pm »

Thank you Nick:  28 mm Victorian sailors are indeed rare.

Wiring Rebuild

Rebuild inside the hull is progressing slowly, incorporating some design improvements.   
Replaced motors as old ones were water damaged.  Internal hull clean up, matt white paint, plus cleaned and re-greased all shafts.

Main 6V SLA has to stay as Kondor motors are 6 to 9.6V, plus 12V SLA’s of similar Ah tend to be very much larger. 
3 hour minimum run time retained.

Rethink for Mister.  I am now using the smaller MMB 24V Mister so I can have 2 x 10 pack NiMh packs in the same compartment as the Mister. 
A weight saving of 250gm less water almost compensates for the extra 10 AA cells added.
Removing one of the old 12V packs, plus the bulky step up converter, leaves one dedicated 12V NiMh pack up for’ard to run the new air pump and better spec air valve.



It did mean some rework on the completed control panel as now three voltages involved, although same number of battery packs.  Additional 24V charging socket fitted. The starboard c/o switch now uses one pole each for the 12V and 24V. (Port c/o switch is for the 6V).

Improved layout for the for’ard compartment [below] after losing one of its battery packs.  Some sculptured Neoprene to nestle the larger items in place.



I wish I had done it like this the first time, but you live and learn. 

Foggy

The smaller MMB Mister runs for about 40 mins instead of 80, but still draws a little over half an Amp so it just means bringing it alongside to syringe a measured amount of water down the funnel to rekindle the ‘puff’.  It has an internal cut out for low water level.

Plumbing

I had filled the four brass vent tubes with Blu-Tack before lining the ballast tanks, so they were easy to clear with a 4mm drill bit. 
Re-plumbing the pneumatics was fun, space being limited as you can see.  New tubing and fittings of course. 

I just have the air valve and Hunter bilge controller to install, then into the bath for ballasting adjustments.

Bob K
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #418 on: November 10, 2014, 09:23:12 pm »

I wish you well after all remedial the work you have doneBob. Crikey, three voltages! I will be chuffed if my first projects work first time on just one.

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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #419 on: November 10, 2014, 10:17:14 pm »

Most of us run at least two voltages, main power for motors, plus 4.8V for receiver and servos etc.  The later usually supplied from the ESC or a BEC circuit board.

Where I have bitten off a mouthful is wanting a smoking funnel (on a submersible), engine sound, plus diving controls.  Foggy units are great, but require 24V to work. 
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #420 on: November 11, 2014, 10:30:34 am »


You could try a voltage  'doubler'  circuit board Bob.  I have one but never got around to connecting it to the 12 volt supply, so cannot verify if it has the amps to do the job.

Cheers

ken
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #421 on: November 11, 2014, 03:40:06 pm »

I did have a 12V DC to 24V DC converter fitted before, but it was almost as bulky as a small battery pack and almost certainly put out a lot of EMC through its coils.  Straight 24V in is simpler.

No extra batteries involved as I took out one of the two 12V 2800 mAh packs for the pump/valve ballast tank system.  2800 should be more than enough for occasional use.
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #422 on: November 11, 2014, 04:02:43 pm »

Just out of interest have you considered a 6 cell lipo for the Foggy? should give plenty of runtime and in a smaller, lighter package
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #423 on: November 11, 2014, 04:59:54 pm »

If you mean a 22.2V  35C, at similar (3000) mAh they are still quite large, and no means of (safe) external charging via a w/proof two pin connector.  Once the hatches are sealed with all the screws torqued I am not stripping everything down and re-testing just to access/charge batteries.  That is why the control panel is a bit 'busy', to avoid keep pulling apart the electrics.  All my boats have internal control panels and have had excellent electrical reliability.

Each watertight compartment hatch has up to 16 screws.  In each all but one go into blind nutserts, with one thru-nutsert so just one screw out ensures ventilation whilst charging. In practice they never even get warm as I charge at a low rate.
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #424 on: November 11, 2014, 07:09:22 pm »

Fair enough...... was just a thought
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