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Author Topic: Bob's H.M.S. Polyphemus  (Read 211427 times)

ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #575 on: May 07, 2015, 08:49:34 am »

She looks gorgeous Bob. She is worthy of the efforts you have poured into her over the last year or two. Thanks for sharing your efforts, frustrations and ressurection fro disaster. Many people would have binned it and done something else!

I really look forward to seeing Poly on the water. A video would be great!
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), Transport Case
« Reply #576 on: May 15, 2015, 12:39:02 pm »

  Transport Case

Having built a Victorian ship with overhanging vulnerable detail the problem is how to avoid significant damage every time I move it off the workbench. 
There is / (was) an old thread on Mayhem for transport cases but sadly almost all the photos (hosted elsewhere I guess) seem to have been deleted or lost. 
So I am almost designing from scratch.

The subject is 1.3 m long (51”), 0.5 m high (18”), and weighs over 11 kg (24 lb).
The case has to easily handleable, strong but not too heavy, protect the vulnerable bits, and on arrival double as a display stand that you can easily slip the handling straps under bow and stern.  Due to ballast tanks taking time to fully empty it also needs to be waterproof with good drainage.

Photo below shows the ‘base’ in 18mm pine with profiled supports, and also shows areas of vulnerability.  The hull profile was too large for a profile tool so I used layers of 10mm square balsa strips to get the shape, allowing for the 8mm thick neoprene protection strips.  The supports are dowelled and glued to the base plank.
An additional keel support (see 3rd photo) bears most of the weight so the hull is only snuggly resting into the profiled supports.



Another picture showing the amount of detail to protect. 



The base ‘box’ has to be wide enough to guard the overhanging bits, be able to take a lighter weight cover-box, and have handles to man-handle from the car to the trolley.  I used 3.6mm ply with wood mouldings as reinforcements.  Screwed pinned and glued.  Removable supports carry the engraved brass plates with ship name and details.  These just slide out when using the lifting straps. Cover box will be retained by 4 HD toggle latches.



I may not have time to make the cover box before next weekend, but at least in case of an ‘accident’ there is a Black Box fitted.


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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

unbuiltnautilus

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #577 on: May 15, 2015, 01:02:18 pm »

May I suggest a handle at one end also, to initially start dragging it out of the car. One at each end may encourage you to carry it between two people and I think that runs the risk of being unstable. You don't want everything tipping over.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #578 on: May 15, 2015, 01:08:48 pm »

May I suggest a handle at one end also, to initially start dragging it out of the car. One at each end may encourage you to carry it between two people and I think that runs the risk of being unstable. You don't want everything tipping over.

That sounds a good idea -  Thank you  :-))  I've never built a boat box before  %%
A handle at one end to help slide it off the car seat sounds very practical. 
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #579 on: May 15, 2015, 01:19:50 pm »

Bob,

Did I misread above or will this masterpiece be at Mayhem? Would absolutely love the chance to see it in the flesh.

Alex
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #580 on: May 15, 2015, 01:58:54 pm »

Hello Alex,  Yes, that was the intention. Hopefully it will not merely just display a stream of bubbles from below the surface  :embarrassed:
I am aiming for the Saturday, not having a tent or caravan.
Looking forward to meeting old friends, and making new friends.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

PICKETBOAT

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #581 on: May 15, 2015, 02:01:24 pm »

Bob


An excellent built transport/storage box designed on good principals. Just be a bit careful with the neoprene if the model is sitting in its cradle for any great length of time as is might stick to the hull. I usually use a layer of felt for the cradle linings but this would not work for a model like yours which has to drain a load of water out. Ensure there is space for a foam buffer on the inside of the box lid to protect both bow and stern. If you hit the car brakes hard the model might shoot forward and damage that lovely ram.
Sorry I will not be at Wickstead to sail a Victorian era vessel along side your model.

Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #582 on: May 15, 2015, 02:51:18 pm »

Thanks Picketboat.  That is MIL Grade Expanded Neoprene sheet, the same as I used to use for lining out shaped MOD packing boxes, not like regular foam strip.  Not cheap, but well worth it for smaller quantities.
The bulbous plan profile of the hull precludes any fore / aft movement so no need for end buffers in this case.  It goes across the back seats.  When I can get the cover box done I am hoping the seat belts can secure it from tipping or rolling.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #583 on: May 15, 2015, 03:13:35 pm »

If only my wife and sister-in-law weren't dragging me off to France for the two weeks either side of the Mayhem weekend I would have been there, if only to see Polyphemus in the flesh. I've followed the build from the beginning and enjoyed every bit.
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radiojoe

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #584 on: May 15, 2015, 07:00:57 pm »

Bob that's a beautifully crafted brass name plate, which is befitting for such a model.  :-)) :-))
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus (1881), not quite a submarine
« Reply #585 on: May 15, 2015, 10:08:35 pm »

I hope everything goes well at Mayhem!

I suppose that if the impact is that great, no amount of padding and strappage will prevent damage. I expect that stowing it tranversley will remove moast damage forces and hopefully, she will not swivel in her cradles and impact the masts on the side of the box.

Sensible driving and moderate speed will negate all but the worst that driving and other drivers can throw at you:O)
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #586 on: May 24, 2015, 08:30:49 am »

HMS Polyphemus (1881), like a submarine

Despite many hours of every kind of test I could throw at it, including three and a half hours sailing in the Test Pond at Deans Marine, Polyphemus decided to embarrass me at the Mayhem event in Wicksteed. 

  The Mishap


To start with all went well.  Photo below showing her at normal seaway running trim.



Next picture is of her trimmed down to attack mode, a waterline height difference of just under 20 mm.  Obviously at this trim there is only a small positive buoyancy, the real ship had only 500 tons of buoyancy at this point, so it is critical that everything operates as designed.  Last six months all has behaved to optimum.



After a successful first run, whilst assembling for the Victorian Fleet Review, she started going low at the bow, eventually flooding two compartments and going down.

I am sure many of you have seen the video posted elsewhere on Mayhem by now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6I1nBgKkSk&feature=youtu.be

Luckily the lake is shallow.  Below is ‘Klunk’ to the rescue.



  Cause

After drying out and investigation it appears that the pressure from the air pump used to blow ballast had ‘popped’ a flexible pipe off its copper tube bulkhead fitting, allowing water from the top of the trimmed-down tanks to vent into compartments 2 and 3. 





So, it was not a bulkhead failing, but a flexible pipe that had come detached under air pressure.
Embarrassing, but not irredeemable. 
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #587 on: May 24, 2015, 09:54:37 am »

Bob.......further to the PM today....Derek

11 out of 10 for Klunk :-)).....................

from the 26th of November 2014 .........I see.......

1. the water pump has nylon type suction & discharge male stud tubes.....these also have a cast in barb on the OD
2. it would be advantageous to install miniature cable ties or DUBRO fuel line wire clamps for added security
3. you can also soft solder a ring of copper wire around your copper tubing to act as a barb for the same attachment with clips or cable ties etc
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #588 on: May 24, 2015, 10:05:26 am »

I trust you got the  "Best sinking medal"  and have now taken the title from me.    %)

Glad no damage has been done.

cheers

ken
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PICKETBOAT

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #589 on: May 24, 2015, 08:10:15 pm »

Bob


What rotten luck. I do hope everything dried out OK.
Stick the model in a broom cupboard along with a de humidifier. Don't leave it for too long or damage to any wooden components might occur.


The only quote that comes to mind is.....


"Apart from that Mrs Lincoln what did you think of the play?"


Keep smiling.

ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #590 on: May 26, 2015, 11:40:19 am »

Thank god it was only a pipe Bob. Definitly have a look at something to hold those pipes in place, or maybe go for brass pipes with olives and screw down journals? Sorry, I have just suggested more hours of rework, shut up Ian <*<
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #591 on: May 26, 2015, 04:36:40 pm »

Hi Bob


Hope you managed to dry Poly out enough in time, I must admit I thought that you were going to be lucky and only have the forward section flood but I couldn't believe it by the time Klunk had jumped in she had gone down completely. Hope you manage to get her to work again and she looked beautiful on the water before the incident.

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radiojoe

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #592 on: May 26, 2015, 05:46:40 pm »

Hope she's all dried out now Bob, she dose look grand on the water,  I've no doubt you will sort it, she's very complex so I guess teething troubles are to be expected.
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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #593 on: May 26, 2015, 07:19:17 pm »

Well, most of the electrics are non-functional, like last time. That was expensive.  Once a compartment is fully flooded internally it can seep through to the next via cable holes at the top. Seal those and you can't even remove the wiring.  The 'popped' airline allowed water to enter compartments 2 & 3  from the top of the ballast tanks.  Two is too many to retain buoyancy when trimmed down.
Once it goes under, water can get in through the sound system outlet and mister intake, both a good three inches above waterline, then it just fills totally. 

Do I epoxy the wiring in ?  Do I just seal the tank vents and fill the tanks with waterproof foam?

A little sad. I had it all cracked at last, three and a half hours sailing in Peterborough with not a drop taken in.
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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #594 on: May 26, 2015, 07:34:27 pm »

Bob,
You have it cracked, expensive, possibly.
What is the damage and can the expensive electronics be protected as in a baloon etc.
Or seal the cables in with silicone as it should only ever need to be used once.


Bob
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Ian K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #595 on: May 26, 2015, 08:13:21 pm »

Hi Bob,

Polyphemus looked great on the water :-))

Try finding some slack cable length in your bulkhead tubes, then pack the tubes with Vaseline, forcing it in and around the wires. This will give some degree of water tightness, and still allow the cables to be removed if needed later.

We know you won't be beaten with this little set back. keep your chin up!

Regards

Ian
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ballastanksian

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #596 on: May 26, 2015, 09:00:27 pm »

She is worth the effort to repair as Poly looked the business on the water. I wish you a speedy and trouble free repair job.
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Subculture

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #597 on: May 26, 2015, 09:12:19 pm »

Perhaps just put the pump in it's own little separate compartment, so if a breach does occur, it won't flood the whole boat.

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #598 on: May 27, 2015, 06:57:27 pm »


What about that non corrosive silicon for sealing the cable ducts!

How fried are the electrics?
I've sometimes resurrected some electronics by striping them down and scrubbing with isopropyl alcohol.

Topic temporarily renamed!   :kiss:


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Bob K

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Re: H.M.S. Polyphemus .... slight set back!
« Reply #599 on: May 27, 2015, 07:32:45 pm »

Thanks for the constructive comments, and for not laughing too hard.
It will take time to individually test and resurrect electrical components, soaking connectors and contacts in contact cleaner to resist corrosion.  I am trying to have positive and constructive thoughts here. 

I need to get a little more positive buoyancy here, to make things less critical.  Putting all the ballast control pneumatics into one compartment is a good idea, and sealing that ultra-tight. Maybe using steam type brass screw fittings.

Do I really need a smoke-steaming funnel and sound system in a 'submarine'?
If I removed the Mister and its 20 AA batteries, saving over 1Kg, I could dedicate compartment 3 (of 6) to pump and plumbing. Seal off the mister air inlet 1/3 way up funnel.  Run air valve inlet to top of funnel with maybe a non return valve at the top.  Take out the sound system and seal off the superstructure sound outlet tube.

Another rewire is virtually inevitable.  However, if I seal up the inter-compartment wiring bulkhead passages there will be zero adjustment or accessibility.  Maybe Hobson's Choice though.

A major concern is that our ‘home waters’ lake is up to forty feet deep.





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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)
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