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Author Topic: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale  (Read 6721 times)

davejay

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Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« on: June 19, 2012, 06:17:16 pm »

Hi there all,
Im returning to radio control modelling after a break of some 20 years, I had previously only built one other boat and that was the lesro rapier kit!........Im now embarking on building a working model of the 43ft range safety launch using the vic smeed drawn plans in 1/12th scale that I acquired from myhobbystore plans service, I realised there were/are some errors in the measurments on the plan, so with that I went about redrawing the plans and it occured to me that it would be good to resize it just to be different!, I rescaled it by a third which now gives me a boat of 64 inches in length and about 18 inches in the beam, I cut the keel and frames just the other day and these are now on the building board and all the frames are squared and glued ready to accept the chines and inwhales etc. I hoping to start a build blog and include photos etc of the progress, it may be a long blog timewise as Im sure you can all appreciate!!!
However, I would like some advice.....firstly, having rescaled the plan by a third, Im now at a loss to know what propulsion to use, i.e what electric motors to use (size), battery power, whether to use a mixer for throttle/rudder control etc, so if you have any ideas I would really appreciate your responses!
Also, because of the size of the beast, I really want it to be heavily detailed in every way possible (might need help in sourcing fittings to 1/9th-1/10th scale!), so Im after any good photos of the vessels both from the outside and inside (been on the asrmcs website and seen some pics on there but need more!!!).......if anyone can help with this I would be forever grateful!
Looking forward to your replies and inputs etc, regards Dave

P.S The materials Im using are 9mm ply for the keel and 3mm ply for the bulkheads and eventually 1/16 ply for the skinning to keep the weight down

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raflaunches

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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 08:04:42 pm »

Hi Dave

Welcome to the world of mayhem!
You have an interesting project, I tend to build RAF launches like the 43ft RSL in 1/12 but 1/9th is very impressive. If you want some pictures of the RSL you can try to get a copy of RAF Marine Craft Appendix B 43ft Range Safety Launches, you can get a copy from the Small Craft Group which is part of the World Ship Society (WSS). I will have a look on my shelf on Friday when I get home from work and scan the pictures from my copy. It is full of info and pictures showing hull contruction and all boat fittings, it's like a workshop manual.
As for motors I would suggest two 12v car heater motors (either from a VW Golf or Polo) and use one or two 12v Sealed Lead Acid (SLA) batteries because of all the space inside the hull you will have, however you would need to get some powerful speed controllers, I usually use Electronize 30amp or higher. You might struggle to find some of the more specific fittings in 1/9th but you will be able to get bollards and fair leads but you would probably have to a lot of scratch building to get the type of fittings you require.
Regards

Nick B
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 10:13:07 pm »

Personally I would use some Graupener 900 water cooled  24v running 2 blade 55mm props ACTion speed controllers or possibly Ask Debsenall on here what Brushless motors he would reccomend,as for batts I would not use large lead acid type batts but either 12 stick packs wired to give 34v or some lipos at 22v


Dave
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davejay

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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 09:37:47 am »

Hi Nick and Dave, thanks for your replies. Nick I would be really grateful if you could scan the manual for me, that would be so so helpful, I would be forever indebted to you. And Dave, thanks for the advice on the power set up, things are becoming a lot clearer already, many thanks!

All the best from Dave
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 06:32:45 pm »

Evening all,
The 43ft RSL is coming along nicely, all the chines and inwhales are in ready to be shaped, had a few issues with two of the bulkheads, had to strip them out and make adjustments to them, all fittted now with success!! Will add photos of the build in due course!
Have been contemplating doing the outer skins using the double diagonal planking way as used on the full size, thing is does anyone have any input on the best way to do it and which wood t use?
Looked at the graupner 900bb specs and see that the revs are about 5,500 rpm, would this be adquate to get a boat this size up on the plane and does two motors equal more power?? (sounds like a stupid question, but a question I dont know the answer to!!!)
All the best fellow mayhemers.

Dave J
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John W E

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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 07:05:52 pm »

Hi there

if you do a search of this forum; have a look for Martindownunder - he did a build of the Brave Borderer - I cant remember the scale off the top of me head - but its a big model - about 6 foot long.

He double diagonally planked the model/hull with 0.8 beech plywood and then he skinned over the top of that with a very lightweight fibre glass cloth; which I dont think there was a need for - cos he planked the hull so well - he could have managed just by using z epoxy finishing as a sealer coating - on the smaller scale there is a build in the masterclass for the 63 ft whaleback, which is also double diagonally planked - using obechi for the inner planks and mahogany for the exterior planking then a finishing coating of z epoxy, also in the warship section - there is the Vosper RTTL 2751 build which is also planked double diagnonally using the same materials.

aye
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 07:25:24 pm »

Thanks for that john, spooky as i was only just reading your thread on your RTTL 2751, if my planking is as half as good as yours I would be more than happy!!
I appreciate the info and feeds, I love this forum, its a fount of knowledge for those taking the first tentative steps into the mind boggling world of model boating.......God I love this hobby!!!
All the best
Dave
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raflaunches

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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012, 07:54:35 pm »

Hi Dave

As promised I have uploaded some pictures and some text from the RAF Marine Craft Class Directory Appendix B 43ft RSL manual.
I did try to scan them with the scanner but its having issues with the computer and not taking to each other for some reason, I think a lump hammer might persuade them to rethink their relationship! <*<

This is the best selection of pictures so far with regards to the hull construction, wheel room and rear cockpit well, I found an image of the air intake on top of the cabin roof so you can see it a bit clearer than on the plan.

Regarding the hull planking I would suggest sheeting in as far as possible then plank on top, this save a lot of time of planking it twice, which I have done in the past but found a rather tiresome task after a while! I use 1/32" birch marine ply cut into strips then glued into place with superglue. The planks in your scale would be approx 3/4inch wide compared to my 1/2inch planks.

I would recommend using two motors, it gives you more power, it gives you a spare motor if something goes wrong with the other, and mainly because RSL's have two engines and propellers, so to be completely accurate you require two motors, two propellers and two rudders.





























If you know which hull number you are building I can tell you its service history because the RAF Marine Craft Directory has all the service histories of the RSLs in RAF service.
Hope this helps.

Regards

Nick B
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012, 07:54:57 pm »

HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=9865.0

aye
john
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2012, 04:54:51 pm »

Hi Dave

this may help as well

http://www.asrmcs-club.com/boatswebsite/rsl.html

aye
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2012, 06:13:11 pm »

John, thanks for the links, much appreciated.
Nick, thank you so very much for all your efforts in getting those pics posted on here, they are such a great help and enough to keep the fires of enthusiasm burning as I'm sure the fires may become a flicker every so often during the build!!!!

This may sound predictable but I was considering replicating ASL 1640 as she was the first, a service history would be excellent because I do intend to display this model at shows if it meets the criteria, it would be nice for people to read about the model they are looking at/scrutinising!!!!!

Have a great weekend and keep in touch one and all!

Dave J
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2012, 06:57:03 pm »

Hi Dave

Here is the info I have on RSL 1640:

RAF No: 1640
Yard No: 2906
Built by Thornycroft at Hampton
Ordered 1953, Contract No 6/MC/765/CB21(a)
On Charge (entered service): 16 June 1955 Accepted: 7 July 1955
Disposal: 23 April 1979 (1104MCU Alness) Sold: 1979

Prior to acceptance 1640 had been allocated to 238 MU at Calshot on 16 June 1955 on voucher MC2/370/MC. A further voucher shortly after taken on charge on 18 July 1955 (MC2/383/MC) allocated the vessel to 1114 MCU at Ramsey. The craft operated out of the Isle of Man for five years before being returned to 238MU at Calshot for survey and report on 18 march 1960.
One year later 1640 was reallocated to the Marine Craft Training and Survival Unit (MCT & SU) at RAF Mount Batten, Plymouth on 10 February 1961.
On the 1st September 1961 she was to be transferred to the Marine Craft Training School, RAF Mount Batten, but this was changed on 22 September 1961 and she was kept at MCT & SU in storage.
On the 29th January 1962 she was moved to 1113 MCU at Holyhead as part of a new establishment to the base.
After seven years at Holyhead, 1640 returned to RAF Mount Batten on the 25th April 1969 for survey and storage on completion, this took two years and on 27th March 1971 she was transferred to Haslar at Gosport for continued storage.
6th January 1975 she was allocated to 1100 MCU at Alness in Scotland.
Four years later she was declared for disposal in 1979. 23rd April 1979 engines were removed and she was put up for sale and sold to Mr P Foster.
Renamed ROXY MUSIC she was re engined with twin Cummins 275hp diesels. After ten years sailing in the Mediterranean charted out to tourists in the Balearic Islands she returned to the UK and sold. Since 13th July 1998, she has operated from Conwy, Wales and can be seen on a regular basis.

Hope this helps.
Regards

Nick B
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davejay

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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2012, 08:32:30 pm »

Thanks for the notes on RSL 1640 Nick, very much appreciated,

Does anybody know what the colour scheme within the wheelhouse of the RSL would have been?............seems to me that it would be light grey but thats maybe because i'm looking at black and white pics on here!!!!.........could it have possibly been 'cockpit green'........the RAF seemed to have painted everything green inside!!!!

Also, i'm still having probs locating a copy of the Royal Air Force marine craft appendix B 43ft RSL book, I've emailed the contact on the WSS site but have heard nothing back at all.............if anyone has one for sale I would gladly tear off your right or even your left arm for it and most definatley pay for it!!

All the best fellow mayhemers

Dave J
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 03:33:57 pm »

Hi Dave J

With regards to contacting the Small Craft Group via WSS you may have to wait a few weeks for a response because both Tony Holtham and his brother Terry work on RFA ships and can be at sea for a little while!
This happens to me all the time especially waiting for the journals which come out three times a year at random times because they have to work around their time on dry land and at sea.
From what is says on their website you can get copies of all the RAF Marine Craft Directories but it will be done on a person to person basis.
Hope this helps

Nick B

P.S I think the colour used inside most RAF boats is white or light grey.
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 06:09:43 pm »

Thanks Nick for the info, being at sea can be a bit restrictive I guess, my old man was in the RN prior to me and my brothers came along, we he left the 'mob' hey presto us lot appeared (over a ten year period!!!!), my uncle was in the RFA for about 40 years (left about 6 years ago as a captain) he had no kids (too much time at sea)!!!!

Think I'll go for the light grey within the wheelhouse, its probably the same paint used on the exterior!!!

All the best

Dave
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2012, 04:10:40 pm »

Ply skinning arrived today from the 'Balsa Cabin'.........great service, good prices too. Will be applying skins later.....wish me luck!!!!!
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2012, 07:52:59 pm »

Hi all,
Ply skinnings are now on and the RSL is starting to look like a boat rather than a plywood skeleton!!!! One concern of mine is her weight, she is already weighing in at about 4kg, is this heavy for an unballasted boat of this size (64"x18"), which motors shall I use to get this boat up on to the plane, which speed controllers for these motors and what batteries, I've already had a little advice on this but I'm still at a bit of a loss........I'm thinking 2x Graupner 900's, 2 ?? speed controllers a throttle rudder mixer from action and 12v 8ah SLA's..........any input would be much appreciated.

All the best

Dave
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2012, 09:33:59 pm »

Hi Dave, Engine choice is probably Graupner 900 BB's or MMB 900 12 pole motors if you are going for brushed motors. A pair of 50X plastic props would be my minmum starting point. Twin 12v 7amp/hr s.l.a. Twin 40amp esc's on 3 channel. Tx modified to give 'tank steering' (an esc on each stick). This setup avoids using an expensive mixer and gives excellent steering with twin rudders. If you are'nt bothered about scale setup below the waterline then I would use very long propshafts and place the motors well forward and bolt the motor mounts on the floor of the hull. This setup/alignment will get the shafts as horizontal as possible and give the most efficient thrust angle for the props. The APU locker at the back could house the servo for the twin rudders. These are my thoughts and I hope they will help. I would be wanting to run the hull at speed before any deck goes on to sort out battery placement. This is a big hull and I would expect the batteries to be just forward of the mid point (side by side or tandem). :-)
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2012, 05:43:52 pm »

Hi Perkasaman,
thanks for the input, very much appreciated. Probably will go for the graupners and the twin esc/battery set up, I was thinking of using the Action electronics p40d mixer priced at a very reasonable 28 and using a 2 channel tx to help keep the costs down. Battery placement shouldnt be too much of a worry as I have a large (14"x12") access area just aft of the wheelhouse in the cabin area, loads of room for the batteries in there!!!.........the motors are going to be placed just aft of the cabin more or less amidships and the thrust line doesnt seem too bad as far as I can see on the plan, i'm looking at having to fit 20" propshafts which will have the 50x props as you recommend (may get a pair of larger brass ones for display out of the water!!!)..........the rudder servo is going to go in the apu area, masses of space there too.
Thanks once again for your response
All the best
Dave
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2012, 08:45:31 pm »

Hi all,
Hope youve all been blessed with great weather but also had time to continue building as I have!!!!!......... skins are on, spray rails fitted and sanded, fore deck in place and the interior of the wheelhouse is really taking shape.......good news is that I've found my camera so pics will soon be on here of the build thus far........a house move is imminent so will probably slow up on the build a tad but will post progress as and when desirable!!!

Happy building and sailing one and all!!!!
 Dave
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Re: Thornycroft 43ft rsl 1/9th scale
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2012, 03:07:22 pm »

Hello davejay,

I am building a Thornycroft rsl at the moment in original scale from Vic Smeeds drawings, and I found pictures of this model on the net:

http://www.wicksteedparkmbc.com/raf-thornycroft-range-safety-launch.html

Maybe you have seen this model already. The colours seems to be made according to the drawings.

Regards
Per
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