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Author Topic: Joysway Focus - a first yacht  (Read 31097 times)

bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2013, 11:33:23 PM »

i have now fitted a dv-80 micro dvr camera (in a waterproof case) to the rudder cover .

need to file down the bolt head a little more yet. still sitting a bit high.

still tweaking the camera angles and need to sail on one of the bigger local ponds for best effect
[first passes werent too inspiring as the cameras still  a bit high and the pond I tested on is a bit short]
also the wind was less than 6mph   {:-{

what i might do is extend the camera behind the boat on a 'boom arm' by a few inches, as though its
following rather than directly  on deck.

bit stuffed at the moment as the BBmobile is on the ramp with no gearbox so not getting out .

regards

BB

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mrpenguin

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2013, 12:44:34 PM »

i have now fitted a dv-80 micro dvr camera (in a waterproof case) to the rudder cover .....
...........what i might do is extend the camera behind the boat on a 'boom arm' by a few inches, as though its
following rather than directly  on deck.
My best results with onboard video were with the camera mounted about 50mm above deck, close to the backstay just below boom level. Aim it so it looks out through the mast/shroud gap on one side or the other. Tried a long bracket out the back (about 300-400mm) but it was impossible to get stable enough
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2013, 11:03:13 PM »

will give that some thought. thanks.

sadly today the rudder shaft broke off flush with the deck [it was only in about 60cm of water at the time so i was able to recover the rudder itself]

it seems the original shaft had been cross drilled making the shaft weaker at the fixing point.

I now need to drill out the old shaft and epoxy in a new one, but theres nowhere round here i can buy metal rod on a sunday so it will have to wait until next week.  >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(


not doing too well on mechanicals this week !


regards


BB
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Ramon

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2013, 11:45:34 PM »

Hi BB - I know the feeling  {:-{
 
Last week we had the first virtually flat calm day experienced - hardly a movement. Despite this it's a long way to go without trying so on the water it is. Suddenly realised the sails weren't working and lo the sailwinch had gone. Rudder was okay so it was more than likely the servo. Took it out once home and sure enough dead as a dodo. The single loop system seemed to have jammed somewhere as it was very stiff which had probably overloaded the servo however once removed there was no jamming evident but that front pulley had become very stiff on the plastic shaft that it rotates on.
 
Saw some 'King Max' (as fitted) winches on the bay for 16 quid - more torque and metal geared too so bought two. Very fast dispatch but first thing noticed was that they had no makers sticker on them though there was a clipped piece of card from a King Max box in one of the bags. Second thing noticed was that they were much slower that the one as fitted. Set them up to test them and the first one tried would rotate six turns from fully in to fully out but once brought back in again would slow right down and then just continue to rotate until the stick was pushed forward again where it would do six turns from there and so on and so on. {:-{   {:-{ 
Emailed the seller who to be fair said they would replace it - which they have done by return - first thing noticed when it arrived today was that this one did have the 'King Max' label on it.
 
In the meantime having tried the second one which appeared okay it was fixed it in place and  the system rerigged having given everything a clean and polish. Just trying it out before fitting the sheets and it too died  {:-{   {:-{   {:-{  I have no idea what caused that.
 
I had a Eurgle winch that was being saved for something else so fitted that which so far appears okay - and much faster too.
 
I felt the company reponded positively to the fault but at 16 quid you can't expect too much I suppose - Caveat Emptor springs to mind. I'll probably fit a Hitec at some stage as they apppear to be what is most used by others at the club - which is probably what I should have done at the outset  %) .
 
I did google King Max and was surprised to see they offer a fair range of winches - from the low torque version fitted as standard to the Focus up to a 'High End' Metal geared version. I emailed them to see if there was a UK supplier and/or could I purchase direct but so far have received no reply.
 
No sailing today though - just too bloody cold!
 
Look forward to seeing your deck level video
 
Regards - Ramon
 
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triumphjon

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2013, 08:06:42 AM »

where are you ramon ? our group had six yachts out for our regular saturday morning sail yesterday even though it was trying to snow ! jon
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Ramon

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2013, 09:55:04 AM »

Ha ha you hardy souls - or should that be brave fools  :D   We're at Norwich and with a raw Nor' Easter found it much warmer in the workshop though  ok2
 
 Regards - Ramon
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2013, 12:39:26 AM »


A note to anyone who shears off the rudder shaft on a focus [below the servo arm fitting] and plans to remove the original and refit a new m3 brass / stainless shaft....

dont drill it out of the rudder ! even with a proper pillar drill!

my recommendation with 20:20 hindsight  would be:

put rudder in a vice with a 3 layer wrap of self amalgam tape to protect it

heat up the broken shaft open end with a blowlamp allowing the heat
to conduct along the shaft down into the rudder.

once the heat is working , pull out the old shaft directly away from the rudder with pliers

the hidden shaft end is knurled prior to epoxying and grips like fury.

youre then left with a nice m3+ a bit hole to epoxy your new shaft into.


regards

BB

[who did try to pillar drill it out! ]



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cloghopper

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2013, 12:23:28 AM »

Hi Ramon
I've just read your thread through from the beginning I became so engrossed that I mist an auction I had been watching for a 2.4  trannie, are well if I wait long enough I guess three more will come along. However I enjoyed the read as it was the first explanation I have seen on the rigging of a winch as I am also a very newby,
Hi BB,
is it possible to copy and dow load  your diagram to  another file please.


Regards Dave
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2013, 10:49:12 PM »

Hi Dave

Text is such a flat medium, I'm not sure if I followed your request.

Were you asking to take my [second - as the first one is not optimal] rigging diagram above and use it elsewhere ?

or were you asking If I could convert it into another format and mail it to you ?

No problem personally with the first one (probably a good idea to cite this website as the source) ,

the second I can also sort out in a few days (the original source file is archived on a remote server).

Regards

BB

Who is now on the second  repaint of his newly repaired rudder due to a slight oversight (Air bubble) in the epoxy filling department   :embarrassed: ...DOH!!
 


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cloghopper

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #34 on: March 04, 2013, 09:33:35 AM »

Hi BB
I was hoping to down load to a paper copy for back reference when I am ready to install into my boat. So it would be very much apprciated if you could E-mail me a copy. as you can see from my thread I'm a long way from being ready to install.


Regards Dave,
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2013, 02:05:25 PM »

Hi Dave,

im assuming you are browsing the forum on a pc running windows ?

if you put your mouse over most web page images, press the right mouse button , there should be an option like "save image as" or "copy image". this will allow you to save a local copy on your pc for offline review/printing


alternatively press [alt][printscrn] on your pc keyboard, open up paint, then paste in the whole screenshot and use the lasso tool to cut out the bits you want to keep.

regards

BB

[whose rudder is now properly filled and levelled and the final coat of primer will be applied this evening]  :-))
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Ramon

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2013, 09:24:32 AM »

Hi Dave, BB, Nice to see your work Dave - I'm intending to do likewise as soon as the current project comes to an end.
 
Glad you fixed your rudder BB - couldn't go last week as we were at the model show in Peterborough (plastic modelling) so have not tried out the new winch as yet - Roll on Saturday  :-)
 
Ramon
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cloghopper

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2013, 01:08:05 AM »

 :-) :-))
thanks BB
it's easy when you know!


Regards Dave
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2013, 10:39:07 AM »

One point of note for anyone considering a focus....

But before I go into it I need to caveat it - it could yet prove to be inexperience on my side!  ok2

It does tend to suffer from excessive "snap weather helm" (which I am reliably informed is the correct nautical term for
the action of a yacht when hit by a significant gust of wind causing it to turn directly into the source of the wind - and
stay there - until you haul in the sails , straighten the rudder and wait for the wind to define the next choice of direction!)

I have read online that the best way to reduce this is to lean the mast forward somewhat more (2-5cm) when setting up
but I haven't really had time to prove it.

I have now done away with the factory "bathroom chain" that attached the front of the jib boom to the deck and replaced it with
110lb break climax kite bridle line as I was sick of having to re-crimp the damned chain every outing!  >:-o

Quite by accident I discovered that shortening this new line by about 5mm results in a dramatic increase in forward speed but the
yacht is more reticent to "goose Wing" on downwind runs, tending to keep both sails on the same side.

Having seen many yachts with them I also fitted a "tracer" of ripstop to the mast crane as a guide to where the wind was
coming from. My largest local sailing venue (Llantarnam boating lake in Cwmbran) is proving to be VERY frustrating for yachting and I'm tending
to switch my venue to the smaller pond at fourteen locks canal centre (1m north of M4 J27) which isn't as big a place to sail but has better wind.
The prevailing winds hereabouts are from the north in winter and the west at other times of the year.  Cwmbran lake is situated in a south facing valley
and is flanked on either side by tall trees - particularly dense leylandi trees. These cause a lot of odd gusts and dead patches which you can
see on the surface of the water. a run of more than 100m has thus far proven impossible! hence the tracer to better understand what is going on.

But what is interesting (to me anyway)  is that I expected the tracer to spend the majority of its time streaming horizontally out to the side
of the boat as I run across wind...but it doesn't ! It seems to spend the majority of its time vertically upright ????

I assume therefore, (please feel free to correct me)  that this is caused by my mainsail, rather than taking the wind and dragging it across the
sail and aft producing forward motion, is pushing a significant component of the wind up the mainsail causing an updraft that the tracer is sitting in ??

If this assumption is correct I assume I have to adjust the sail in some way to change the "section" of the sail to reduce this , producing more forward
motion . Can anyone shed more light on the matter please ? Its certainly not what I expected to find !!

regards

BB




 


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Ramon

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2013, 03:45:09 PM »

Hi BB - have just read this and take on board your experiences with interest. We too found the excessive weather helm would catch us out when first sailing our Focus but as previously said this diminished considerably by moving the jib forward about 20mm. I don't think this is ideal however as this then opens up the gap - as opposed to the slot - between.
 
I haven't been able to get to sail for three weeks now but apparently we now have a fourth Focus in the group and the first thing this latest member did (haven't met him yet) was to reduce the jib height considerably and bring the boom much closer to the deck which apparently had an improvement on this weather helm situation also.
 
Sounds like you are on that same track shortening the height using line, I certainly agree that the links are probably the worst attribute in the whole package but overall I still think it shows remarkable value for the initial outlay - just needs a degree of tinkering with  ;) . I have fitted a balance weight to the jib boom and this has improved the ability to goosewing considerably.
 
Despite the comments made about the sails mentioned previously we've been thinking that the next step is to fit them out with something more efficient and was discussing about getting this underway with one of the other guys within a couple of weeks. However, your remarks about the telltale tracer are worth persuing. I shall do the same to mine and let you know if I get the same results. It does look as if a fair amount of power could be being wasted but like you I have no experience by which to determine if that is a normal occurance so as you say it would be nice to hear from someone that does.
 
To keep some kind of uniformity what size have you made your tracer and what point did you attach it to the mast crane?
This Saturday sees my first race   :o  - now that should be enlightening  ok2
 
Regards - Ramon
 
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mrpenguin

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2013, 02:52:34 AM »

@bigbloke:
 
Snap weather helm - sailing along with wind on the beam, hit by a gust, the boat heels (more than it was) and turns the bow quickly into the wind and stops... I assume it happens with the wind from either port or starboard side. If it is worse one side to the other, then your rig may not be vertical side to side (aligned to the keel fin).

I believe a prime cause of this (from my experience with other boats, I do not have a Focus) is in the sail setup. The sudden turn is the result of the jib losing its drive quite a bit before the main as the boat heels in the gust. As a result, the mainsail turns the boat...

Suggestions - increase the jib power - flatten the jib by both reducing the curve in the jib foot and also by tightening the jib leech with whatever adjustments are available. If you are running a jib topping lift, I suggest removing it in stronger conditions. Also make sure the jib boom is pretty much parallel to the main boom (not further out than the main boom).

Additionally you could reduce the mainsail power a bit by lengthening the vang (if it is adjustable) to increase the mainsail leech curve.

In any case, it will not take a great deal of change for a marked improvement....

Hope this helps
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2013, 01:20:13 PM »

Hi again All and thanks for your comments.

Ramon,

The tracer is 1cm high and 20cm long made out of carrington (novare) ripstop nylon

I simply made it 24cm then folded the closed end over twice with cyano glue so the
first cm is stiff and was hole punched to take the tie on.

I fitted it to the mast crane where the backstay fitting attaches using a larkshead knot

Im going to make a second "proper" one as time permits with black and white chevrons
as this will show up better at distance (the current one is black only)


Having contemplated both your input and Mr Penguin's I am going to try 2 things :

1) Im going to fit a bowsie onto the jib line fitting to see if theres an improvement in shortening it slightly.

2) I have used a Quad kite bridling technique (image attached) to allow jib height adjustment
relative to the deck. all ive done is taken a length of 100Lb breaking strain line , folded it in half, then put a series of overhand knots :

at original "chain" height,
my "discovered by accident" height
and half that height again

finally sealing the open ends with a lighter

The loop end is then larkshead knotted to the jib boom and the original "caribena" (the "sticky-out sideways bit" in my attached image) refitted   

I'll pop my bicycle GPS onto the Hull (its waterproof) and try to get some speed data across
a few good runs to see what the "real" difference is speed wise

regards

BB

P.S. - realised i've lost my "jib stiffeners" on the jib trailing edge so I picked up some clear plastic sheet used for comb binding and made a few dozen "spares" :)
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mrpenguin

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2013, 11:03:45 PM »

.....Quite by accident I discovered that shortening this new line by about 5mm results in a dramatic increase in forward speed but the yacht is more reticent to "goose Wing" on downwind runs, tending to keep both sails on the same side.

Having seen many yachts with them I also fitted a "tracer" of ripstop to the mast crane as a guide to where the wind was
coming from.....

@BigBloke:
On a downwind run, you may find that a broad reach (sailing slightly off downwind with both sails one side) is actually faster than goose-winging directly downwind. With sailing, the quickest distance between two points is not always the shortest.

With your "tracer" or masthead pennant - I find these of great value. However, avoid using something too large/long as it will cause excessive heeling when sailing with the wind from the side. I use a 100mm piece cut from a plastic shopping bag on a 100mm piece of piano wire - light, flexible, cheap...

The "jib stiffeners" you mention are generally called battens - they are used (mostly for the mainsail) to hold the leech of the sail in shape.
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2013, 06:15:54 PM »

well....ive managed to get out but things went a bit awry.....


I can confirm that lowering the jib boom has improved the forward speed of the boat even in very low wind.
need a breezyer day to assess weather helm improvements.

anyhow half way along / right in the middle of the pond I noticed the boat was sitting a bit low in the water....then the rudder stopped...then the sails wound in without my touching the controls....and then......nothing ....except it started raining like fury. :( nothing I could do except shelter under a large leyandi tree, don my waders and wait for the boat to run aground.

upon recovery I found that the drain plug had fallen out ,  and the receiver was waterlogged. nothing to do but pack up and come home. I subsequently found the plug on the side of the pond where I started from.

fortunately washing the receiver  in distilled water and drying it off has brought it back to life again but wont get another chance to sail until next weekend.

regards

BB





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Netleyned

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2013, 06:25:53 PM »

Been there didn't buy the t shirt 8)
Make sure the servos are dried out.
Give it a couple of days in the airing cupboard
with the hatch open.


Ned
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2013, 08:17:14 PM »

No airing cupboard in this house Ned , modern open plan living :)

They're currently in the attic on top of the combi boiler where they will stay until probably next friday

I did however, go to buy the T-shirt - but as usual they had nothing in a XXXL :)

regards

BB


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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2013, 08:21:20 PM »

Quote from: mrpenguin

The "jib stiffeners" you mention are generally called battens

Thanks for that Mr P. I suspected they might be (They are for kites as well) though these
days people just tend to fit "stand offs" to sport kite frames. Haven't seen a kite design with a battened sail since
the late 80s  / early 90s.

Regards

BB
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Ramon

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2013, 11:55:33 PM »

Comiserations BB - hope it all dries out ok for you.
 
I didn't even bother to put my nose out of the shed today the weather was so foul over here.
 
Our bungs are tied onto the back stay connector - doesn't stop you forgetting to put it in  %)  but it does prevent you leaving it on the pondside  ok2
 
BTW - Re the sail winch servos - I tied to order a couple of Hitec 785B servos from a regular model mags 'big page' advertiser's web site. After putting in all details it wouldn't go any further. Tried to contact them by phone to make sure the order had/hadn't actually gone through only to get an answer phone telling me they were closed but opening times were Monday to Saturday 9- 5pm but I could always order on line  {:-{  This was Thursday at 9.30  O0  Finally got through at around eleven. 'Ah the web site has been causing problems what would I like? Took all my details including my card number first only to then tell me they had none in stock and if I phoned back tomorrow they could tell me when they might come in. I was really impressed with this and asked for my card details to be destroyed. I was assured they would be shredded - time will no doubt tell.
 
A quick Google found the 'Servo Shop' - Steve Webb Models. Very good price - best I found including the postage, so ordered them Thursday afternoon - arrived this morning. That's what I call Bl--dy Good Service! No connection just very satisfied.
 
They are much bigger than the standard servo so some surgery is going to be required.
 
Hopefully next Saturday will see some improvement in the weather  :-)
 
Regards - Ramon
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bigbloke

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2013, 09:05:48 PM »

two more minor failures here sadly


the hatch cover cracked where the locking screw goes through it. i just patched it with a thicker layer of epoxy resin on the inside , sanded it down with some p600 and i'll dab some white onto it at the weekend.

tried to get in a half hour sail on the oxfordshire canal after work tonight before going to the hotel, but the port side mast fixing (deck "handle") snapped mid sail. Managed to get everything back ashore but need to find a substitute fixing until I can source something properly.

managed to meet up with the local club on sunday and ended up coliding with a sub! [sorry Chris!] as far as I know theres no damage to either party. Was quite a "clonk!" when it hit !

Regards

BB

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Ramon

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Re: Joysway Focus - a first yacht
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2013, 11:39:37 PM »

Hi BB - another week gone and still no sailing - weather even worse this Saturday.
 
If you mean the small plastic fitting screwed to the deck where the shrouds attach I have a couple of spares as I replaced mine with aluminium ones - PM your address and I'll send them to you.
 
One item that is really fragile if you have it fitted is the plastic spreader on the mast tensioners - both ours have split and collapsed. I made an ali fitting for one but the other is running without them - can't see any difference at this stage.
 
Ramon
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