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Author Topic: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought  (Read 107245 times)

raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #125 on: October 23, 2013, 09:58:10 AM »

Hi Pondweed

I've just looked through the pictures of Vengeance and its like a light bulb has switched itself on-it all makes sense now! :-)) 

Judging by Brian King's book- Modelling Late Victorian Battleships- he represents the net shelves in this way but you can't see whats beneath them because either the picture is cropped or too fuzzy to see the net booms.
I have, in my career so far in the RAF, only used and seen aircraft drawings to work from so understanding how the Admiralty and ship designers/builders show modifications and changes is completely new to me. In the aircraft world they draw a completely new drawing but obviously the size difference between aircraft and ships is the main point which prevents ship drawings being produced like this years ago.

To get back to the model, I will be building her as new or at least before 1904 before all the changes happened. So this will mean that the torpedo net shelves will be on the upper deck level and she will be in her original Victorian black, white and buff colour scheme.

On another note which Colin-d might know, with regards to his friends build, the stern torpedo tube is shown on the drawing but on the picture of 'Magnificent' earlier in this thread you can't actually see the tube door but my engineering understanding of the plans would seem to show it above the waterline- any ideas?
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Nick B

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victorian

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #126 on: October 23, 2013, 10:36:30 AM »

Quote
you can't actually see the tube door

I suggest that you can. There's defintely an elongated cover extending from the waterline to the gallery, that ties up with a feature shown on the plan. Not a submarine type door, but something that matelots would have unbolted from the inside perhaps.
 
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #127 on: October 23, 2013, 01:47:19 PM »

Hi Victorian


I must be going blind  %%


Can't believe that I missed it, I think it was that I was expecting a round or oval exit like a submarine like you said but after closer inspection of the drawings and the picture my best guess is that a cover slides up to reveal the actual tube itself- the sliding door as I will call it has a groove or slot which I can now see on the picture and the drawing.
I got the plans back today from the print shop to reduce them by 50%, for a start when I compared them to the hull I thought that they had reduced them too much- they looked tiny compared the model, but after careful measuring I found them to be correct- my worst dimensions were the beam being out by  just under 2mm, my hull is 1.85mm wider than the beam on the plans but its acceptable!!! ;)


Looking at the smaller plans you can start to see how small the torpedo net shelves really are, some careful modelling will be required using brass maybe needed to get them to look the part!
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suffolk1928

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #128 on: October 26, 2013, 04:54:33 PM »

Hi Nick,


The plans look great- really good to have such detailed information on the ship, should make for an excellent model.


Have you thought about etching the torpedo net shelves? (to add to the numerous sheets in the kit!) Might be a bit fragile for collisions though. I'm currently drawing out the cranes for Suffolk for etching, will see how it goes...


James
 
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #129 on: October 27, 2013, 03:45:43 PM »

Hi James


I hope I can do justice to the real vessel by making a good model using the kit and drawings together!  :-))
I have thought about the net shelves and possible materials to make them from, etched brass does seem to be the way forward for detail and ease of use, how are you doing your etched parts?
I'm taking the model back to work this week to start building again, she will be worked on in between the work on the Gnat's crew in preparation for the Warwick show.
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colin-d

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #130 on: October 28, 2013, 09:57:23 AM »

sorry for the late reply Nick, things to do and places to be at, those sort of excuses.
by the way my friend is following this thread...
 
here's a photo of my friends Hannibal showing the rear torpedo hatch.
 
hope this helps  :-))
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #131 on: October 28, 2013, 08:55:34 PM »

Hi Colin


Thanks for the picture, hope your friend is enjoying the build so far, and the banter between us all!
And of course hope his build is going well too.


I have started to mark out the portholes and other hull mounted fittings on the hull using the drawings and pictures. Filing and drilling will take place soon once I'm sure everything is right or I think is right! :-))
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #132 on: October 28, 2013, 11:32:36 PM »

sorry for the late reply Nick, things to do and places to be at, those sort of excuses.
by the way my friend is following this thread...
 
here's a photo of my friends Hannibal showing the rear torpedo hatch.
 
hope this helps  :-))

Very nice!  :-))
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Michael B

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #133 on: November 13, 2013, 07:51:14 PM »


Hello everyone, my name is Michael and I have been following the building report for quite some time.

I`m from Germany, so excuse my bad English first. My school time is at least 27 years ago. But I hope, that you will understand me. I am a friend of colin-d and I also build the "HMS Hannibal" from the deans marine kit. Some of the photos have indeed shown here already by colin. Additionally, for the most parts I use the admiralty plans and the original builders plans. Now I have finished the hull, both the technology as well as "outside". The main gun turrets are ready too. I add a photo of my rear torpedo tube and my "solution" for the torpedo net shelf.

Michael







Welcome to the madhouse known as Mayhem.  Ive edited out your Font  characters for an easier read
cheers
ken



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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #134 on: November 13, 2013, 08:47:28 PM »

Welcome Michael


I must admit I have admired your work from a far via our mutual friend Colin. When he showed me your work in progress of HMS Hannibal I was, and still are, stunned by your modelling skills. Your model looks fantastic.  :-))
Thank you for sharing your pictures of your build, Colin was showing me your work for over an hour during the Deans Marine open days earlier this year, and it was due to you and him that I decided to take the kit one stage further and bought a copy of the Admiralty plans.


During the model boat show at Warwick last weekend I bought some more propellers, this time from Prop Shop, I asked Simon and on the Sunday he showed me set of fine pitch Victorian era propellers 48mm in diameter which match the admiralty plans almost perfectly. But I was warned by Simon that I shouldn't expect great things from them, whilst they are more accurate in profile they will be very inefficient  compared to the ones that are currently fitted to my model. I'll upload some picture of them when I get home on Friday (my photo provider is very slow at downloading in Norfolk!).


This evening I have started to mark out the port hole positions relevant to HMS Prince George, and I have made the starboard ash chutes from plastic card. I will be drilling out the port holes tomorrow night and sand down the hull to remove what is left.


Keep up the good work Michael, I'm very impressed with your build.
Regards


Nick B
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #135 on: November 14, 2013, 12:16:45 AM »

Nick B....talking about propeller's......."whilst they are more accurate in profile they will be very inefficient  compared to the ones that are currently fitted to my model"
May be of lesser efficiency Nick.....but will add  greater realism :-)) .....& after all  it's not being built as a model speed boat........Derek
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #136 on: November 14, 2013, 12:24:41 AM »

Does inefficiency have to be about less speed though?

Dave
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Captain Povey

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #137 on: November 14, 2013, 09:57:54 AM »

Why not fit the 'accurate' ones on for 'show' and change to 'efficient' ones for go. Who can see them under water when she is sailing anyway. Its not a big job to change them as required. From my experience of sailing a Majestic class its good have a bit of extra speed to get out of the way of others. The manoeuverabilty of the Majestic is poor to say the least so having some extra help from some good props is a good idea. Graham.
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victorian

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #138 on: November 14, 2013, 10:24:29 AM »

Nice to see you at the weekend Nick and Capt Povey. Regarding the poor manoeverability, do you include differential motors in that? Mars has the rudder channel linked to the drive and can rotate in her own length. She even won a manoevering competition somewhere! I have a switch on the Tx to disable the differential and return to rudder only because at full power, any rudder input slows one of the motors which is visible in the model's headway. The radio is an old Futaba 2.4Ghz which I bought because it had V-tail mixing, but it seems the Chinese are waking up to this and one radio I saw recently had mixing possibilities on all channels.
 
Edited to say my props are prop shop 'Victorian' pattern and fairly coarse. The original ship had quite narrow chord blades. I think you need all the power you can get in a model because of swans (a bit like the real ship meeting an Ekranoplanz!) and I don't advise swapping them routinely because I lost one in the drink through relying on a locknut instead of Loctite. An important reason for using Propshop is that they will make an odd prop to your spec of thread etc.
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Captain Povey

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #139 on: November 14, 2013, 12:07:22 PM »

Hi Victorian, I agree, {:-{  it was certainly good to see you and Nick at the weekend, renew friendships and put faces to names. I fitted my Caesar with Action Electronics P94 and use the mixing facility on that so I do get motor control linked to rudder movement. It certainly helps but I can't turn in my own length even when one prop is going forward and the other is reversed. I agree with your comment about lost props but as I only seem to sail Caesar once a year it would not be a big problem for me. Cheers, Graham. :-))
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vnkiwi

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #140 on: November 14, 2013, 05:11:10 PM »

Just a wee note on 'nyloc nuts'.
They are designed to be used ONCE, only.
If you undo them, do not re-use.
Use a new one, as they do loosen their grip each time they are placed on a thread.
cheers
vnkiwi   :-))
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #141 on: November 14, 2013, 06:07:09 PM »

Hi everyone


Must agree with Victorian and Capt Povey , it was very good to see you both, I certainly enjoyed your chats over the weekend.


With regards to the fine pitch props, they have almost no pitch whatsoever and the blade area is incredibly tiny compared to a standard prop. The easiest way to describe them is to compare them to the daisy flower petals, very thin and narrow. At the show they were described, rather mocked, as Spitfire props or more worryingly Walrus propellers!
Derek, to answer your query Simon of prop shop said that they were inefficient compared to standard props, meaning that it would require more power to achieve the same outcome as normal props. This is due to the reduced blade area and the very fine pitch.


When I come to equip the model with the electronics, I will be using two 15amp speed controllers, one per motor because I am using my Robbe F14 Navy Twin Stick radio which allows individual motor control. I am also fitting a 24v foggy unit Mk 2 to provide the 'steam'. I will be using two 12v SLA batteries to power the foggy unit and one 12v SLA to power the motors.
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Nick B

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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #142 on: November 15, 2013, 07:37:40 PM »

As promised pictures of the new props











Pictures of the first ash chute, the tamiya tape isn't there to hold the chute on, it's to mark out the torpedo net booms!








My pencil lines mark out the locations of the torpedo net shelves


The start of the mass of port holes drilled out to 4mm.





And finally, my latest picture of HMS Prince George, her forecastle deck.




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Nick B

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #143 on: November 15, 2013, 08:42:26 PM »

Nick.....propeller speed is a real can of worms....... ;D .....the higher the blade surface area, the greater the power requirement to rotate, but in our model application also the greater the current draw or a lower speed....using propeller blades with a smaller surface area provides is a direct opposite to power, current & speed
If they look prototypical they are the best solution..... :-)) ....propeller speed, steerage  & current draw will be confirmed only during sea trials........ {-)  Derek
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mark w

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2013, 10:39:18 PM »

Joined this one a little late  :(( , lookin' great  :-))
Mark
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #145 on: November 21, 2013, 02:42:41 AM »


The start of the mass of port holes drilled out to 4mm.






If you need to, tape a metal or wood strip along the hull with the top edge level with the bottom of the porthole 'hole' so the drill bit has something to rest on. You get a neater line.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #146 on: November 21, 2013, 03:38:57 AM »

That's a very good thought process pondweed  O0

Nick...we can see the horizontal waviness now....it will only get worse  >:-o

You have the chance now to bog all of those porthole drillings up & redrill on line.......

It will be worth it :-)) .......Derek
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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #147 on: November 21, 2013, 10:02:47 AM »

One way to do this would be to tape a piece of brass sheet offcut just below the centreline of the moulded holes and then drill the pilot holes against it.  In Niobe I scanned the Admiralty drawing and printed it out, cut a strip with the portholes in and taped that to the side. Trouble is I forgot the forshortening effect of perspective and didn't realise until a drilling clashed with something else. It is easy to correct that in CAD if your brain is in gear!
 
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Pondweed

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #148 on: November 21, 2013, 12:12:13 PM »

That's a very good thought process pondweed  O0

Nick...we can see the horizontal waviness now....it will only get worse  >:-o

You have the chance now to bog all of those porthole drillings up & redrill on line.......

It will be worth it :-)) .......Derek

I know it's late but it was said in the faint hope the above was just a test strip and the other 80% of them aren't drilled.  %)

Anyway, I just wish someone would have told me this before I did mine. 
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Hannibal-Majestic class Pre-dreadnought
« Reply #149 on: November 21, 2013, 09:57:47 PM »

Thanks for the advice


Had hoped that the eagle eyed amongst you hadn't spotted my mistake! :D
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Nick B

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