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Author Topic: Re: Flooding in England  (Read 7055 times)

inertia

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2014, 10:59:59 PM »

In terms of general public expenditure the South subsidises the rest of the Country. Been like that for years.

Colin

A rather reckless statement from one usually so sanguine.
Could I remind you of my address, Admiral? I seem to have missed out on the subsidy cheques somehow, as apparently have the folk in Zummerzet.

DM (M.Fad)
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Bob K

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2014, 11:06:54 PM »

Living in Windsor I see first hand the devastation of rising ground water, up to 1/2 a mile from the river.  As Colin rightly said when the water table rises above ground level it is not just the Thames overflowing.  That's what shut the main rail line into London at Datchet. 
 
Futile to just blame a "King Canute" for not having dug more ditches.  Until the water table goes down there is nowhere to divert it to.  The combined services are doing all they can.
 
By my reckoning we've had a lot more than 40 days and 40 nights of downpours. Maybe time our remaining shipbuilding capacity is switched to giant vessels designed for pair of animals.
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bikerdude999

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2014, 11:20:08 PM »

we had ditches which were 4 feet wide and 4 feet deep and our council have put in a 12 inch pipes so where does the excess water go--in to fields and around houses and have the clever folk trying to run the country realize the sea levels are rising over the last number of years


So what are the government supposed to do? Raise land level everywhere? Build a 20 foot wall around the country? Unfortunately nature is unpredictable, we can't be completely prepared for rising sea levels, floods, winds, extreme cold etc, it's all a compromise. This year has been extremely wet, normally I think flood defences actually do quite a good job, unfortunately this year the defences have been overwhelmed.


More specifically for the Somerset levels, it's drained marshland, most of it is actually below the high tide level, so it's going to flood pretty easily. It is naturally supposed to be wet land.


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Sandy

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2014, 11:21:28 PM »

In terms of general public expenditure the South subsidises the rest of the Country. Been like that for years.

Colin

Hmmm... only since we stopped making and building things.

Up until then, and what made Britain Great, was everywhere else.

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Colin Bishop

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2014, 11:21:41 PM »

Quote
A rather reckless statement from one usually so sanguine.
Could I remind you of my address, Admiral? I seem to have missed out on the subsidy cheques somehow, as apparently have the folk in Zummerzet.

Hi Dave, nice to have your input but not reckless at all on my part I'm afraid. Having worked for a large County Authority for most of my working life I have seen how the taxes raised in the South have been applied to supporting local authorities in the North via the Rate Support Grant redistribution formula. It has been a well publicised bone of contention for many years. That is not to say it wasn't necessarily the wrong thing to do given the relative prosperity of the South East but even down this way we have our pockets of deprivation. Basically what was happening was that the centrally collected business rates were being redistributed in favour of Northern areas of the Country so that, for example, the rate given per pupil to Northern Education Education Authorities was very much higher than to their Southern counterparts. All this is on record if you can be bothered to look for it which I can't at this time of night!

Colin
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2014, 11:38:46 PM »

I think the problem with the news reports is that they are concentrating on the 'personal impact' situation. Of course individuals, quite reasonably, will be concerned with what is affecting them personally and I don't blame them. But when you look at the wider position as shown by the DoE flood warnings you get a better impression of just how overwhelming the flooding is and how little can really be done to stop it. As said in the post above, you can hardly build a 10 foot wall on both sides of the Thames and along its tributaries over 100 miles or so to try and keep the water in, especially if it is also coming up out of the ground behind you. All you can do is to wait for the weather to ease and the levels to drop. At that point flood relief can help in the clear up process.

Colin
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Capt Podge

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2014, 12:25:07 AM »

Has anyone noticed that, while parts of England "appear to be sinking", the land in the area of Japan is expanding ?
 
Could something be happening to the Earth's Axis ?
 
...it's just a thought - I've absolutely no hard facts to correlate the above observations  {:-{
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
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BrianB6

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2014, 12:30:40 AM »

We will gladly swap you some of our sun in exchange for some water.
Especially if it can be used to put our bush fires out.
Thick, smelly wood smoke all day in Melbourne and we are 100 Km. from the nearest fire!  :((

p.s.
It has happened before
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Mad Scientist

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2014, 02:08:21 AM »

Has anyone noticed that, while parts of England "appear to be sinking", the land in the area of Japan is expanding ?
 
Could something be happening to the Earth's Axis ?
 
...it's just a thought - I've absolutely no hard facts to correlate the above observations  {:-{
 
Regards,
 
Ray.

From an old magazine article, I recall that Great Britain is `tilting`, with northwest Scotland rising, and southeast England sinking. Something to do with plate tectonics, IIRC.
 
If this is the case, things don`t look good for the London area over the long term.
 
Tom
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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2014, 07:25:28 AM »

Anyone know if the proposed route for the HS2
is affected by the flooding or will it be on stilts?

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Bob K

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2014, 07:31:41 AM »

Just for a change, weather forecast here today is heavy rain and high winds, yet again !
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Brian60

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2014, 08:27:40 AM »

 I remember Hull being criss crossed with drains and dykes, as a child I can recall fishing in them with nets for sticklebacks and newts, life was fun back then in the long hot summers (at least it seemed to be as a 7 year old) Roll on 50 years they have all been filled in to allow building land to be freed up, only two large ones remain one of which my home in Hull backs down to, am I worried? no!

Back in 2007 when we had the last major floods, rainwater was running a foot deep along roads, water was coming up through grates in the road like fountains and yes the water level in Barmston drain behind my house rose, it rose to the highest we could remember but never came close to overtopping the bank.

Our ancestors who dug these dykes and drains had the right idea to keep land that is lower than sea level (Hull is lower than sea level) dry. It seems that with the rapid increase in housing needs over the last 50 years our leaders have lost touch with reality. Maybe what we need to do is bring dykes and drains into the 21st century? They don't have to be on the surface, they can be piped underground with sufficient grating run-offs in strategic areas? If developers were made to install this sort of thing in the building phase maybe they would think twice about wanting to develop on flood plains.

warspite

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2014, 10:26:57 AM »

Maybe all the water filling up the land is pushing down and making the land in japan rise up  %% .
 
Or, if your a daily mail reader
 
By George, its all down to all those illegal imigrants, so many the south is sinking under the weight (take in jest gentlemen).
 
next they will say theres a drought on its way for next week - we hope - its not long till april and the week long heatwave (have you noticed this for the last couple of years).
 
Sorry had to lighten this up a little, as for HS2 see my post on - (correction Railways).
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inertia

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2014, 10:27:35 AM »


From an old magazine article, I recall that Great Britain is `tilting`, with northwest Scotland rising, and southeast England sinking. Something to do with plate tectonics, IIRC.
 
If this is the case, things don`t look good for the London area over the long term.
 
Tom

I have a solution. Move all the money from Canary Wharf to Oban and that should re-balance the whole shebang.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2014, 10:32:55 AM »

I don't think it is plate tectonics, it is simply the land re adjusting after being relieved of the weight of the glaciers during the last ice age - sort of bouncing back.

The idea that it is caused by banker's bonuses is an attractive one though....

Colin
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furball

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2014, 11:13:05 AM »

Quote
From an old magazine article, I recall that Great Britain is `tilting`, with northwest Scotland rising, and southeast England sinking. Something to do with plate tectonics, IIRC.[/size] If this is the case, things don`t look good for the London area over the long term.



It's been going on for the last 20,000 years, so the long term in this case is probably several thousand years until the next ice age comes along and things start to reverse - whether you'll be able to recognize the British Isles at that point, let alone London means I'm not worried about it... %)


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hollowhornbear

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2014, 11:58:23 AM »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26146361
Here you go i.m about 3 miles from Chertsey. Was born in Chertsey and in 50 years have never seen the river this bad.
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Brian60

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2014, 12:16:36 PM »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26146361
Here you go i.m about 3 miles from Chertsey. Was born in Chertsey and in 50 years have never seen the river this bad.

No it just means you haven't lived long enough yet %%

grendel

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2014, 12:46:07 PM »

Build a 20 foot wall around the country?

then we would have a 20 ft deep pond covering most of the country with the rain we have had. :-)
(Hey that would be great for boating....)
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gingyer

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2014, 01:42:14 PM »

Do you think they have made any attempt to store any of the water??
most of the places that are flooding have hose pipe bans during the summer I was wondering if they could
pump it into large tankers then put it into reservoirs 
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Brian60

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2014, 04:58:24 PM »

In terms of general public expenditure the South subsidises the rest of the Country. Been like that for years.

Colin

Been like it since the early to mid 1980's when the then government decimated and ripped the heart out of the manufacturing base of the north and midlands, then through everything at the finance sector to entice those organisations to set up camp in the south.

I'm sure there is a conspiracy theory in there someplace, it just needs a little work by those who can be bothered  %)

HawkEye

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Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2014, 05:40:26 PM »

Some  posts on Twitter from around the country -  :o

Blimey! Had to hang on to a telegraph pole, the wind was so fierce! LOOK OUT! FLYING COWS!!!.......
 
Thank God for TV reporters standing outside in the wind & rain to tell us that it's windy & raining!  pic.twitter.com/yTqQrJjT5z

something big just blew past my window in Manchester. I think it was Liverpool.

This amazing photo is actually Sennen in Cornwall   pic.twitter.com/0LZ7YdwPfd


(pic) of Stonegate - the track has since been removed to allow us to reinstate the embankment . pic.twitter.com/v46BV4OfJf

MeteoGroup UK@WeatherCast_UK   1h 
Aberdaron breaks today's record again. A gust of 108mph was recorded there in the last hour   pic.twitter.com/NLLSH8Ycci


M62 particularly bad at the minute with wind    pic.twitter.com/75ZgvcTM4E



There is a lot of opinion that the situation in many areas is much worse than the media is reporting .

BBC now reporting that 42,000 homes in Wales are without power, and 18,000 in England.

Satellite radar map  -

http://www.eldoradocountyweather.com/forecast/europe/radar/europe-radar-loop.php






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warspite

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Re: Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2014, 05:43:25 PM »

Been like it since the early to mid 1980's when the then government decimated and ripped the heart out of the manufacturing base of the north and midlands, then through everything at the finance sector to entice those organisations to set up camp in the south.

I'm sure there is a conspiracy theory in there someplace, it just needs a little work by those who can be bothered  %)

 
How about, all the heavy industry removed from up north, and fat wallet bankers in the south, so they are now sinking and needing a bale out - (sorry not trying to offend just jesting)  :embarrassed:
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2014, 06:04:39 PM »

Quote
Been like it since the early to mid 1980's when the then government decimated and ripped the heart out of the manufacturing base of the north and midlands, then through everything at the finance sector to entice those organisations to set up camp in the south.

There is a degree of truth in that but the underlying problem was that British industry had become uncompetitive due to developing nations undercutting it on costs and also a failure to modernise. Building something like an oil tanker requires relatively crude technology, it's just a big steel box with an engine stuck on the back and well within the capability of nations with less sophisticated capabilities and much, much lower labour costs. The reality is that there is no mileage in flogging a dead horse, the UK cannot compete in such markets. We needed to up our game to enter markets for which the emerging nations lack the technology and know how to compete in. Instead, as far as much manufacturing industry is concerned, we have allowed them to overtake us. It is still possible to compete as the Nissan UK operation shows but it is necessary to embrace new working practices and techniques and the Unions don't have a very good track record in this respect.

However, it is also true to say that successive Governments have not supported our industries in the same way as has happened elsewhere such as in France. They have been too content to favour the lowest bidder at the expense of maintaining UK manufacturing capacity. This will probably prove to have been a major mistake in the longer term.

I think the basic problem is that politicians tend to be ambitious but not very intelligent but that has always been the case.

Colin
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: Flooding in England
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2014, 06:54:37 PM »

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