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Author Topic: HMS Illustrious 87  (Read 109296 times)

ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2014, 05:14:20 PM »

There is something so great about seeing the first few frames being set up. I wish you a trouble free and enjoyable build Paul and will follow your progress to learn from. I bet your workshop has that lovely smell of fresh birch!

Just a quick technical question. Do you allow for the thickness of planking when printing your frame drawings or accept the planking is not that thick so will not affect the scale beam too much?
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radiojoe

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2014, 07:02:58 PM »

Hi Paul, your doing a great job there, it must seem like a mammoth task after starting with a moulded hull, but I sure you'll do it, at least it gives you plenty to think about.  %% :-))
Joe.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2014, 08:20:00 PM »

Yes I have decided on 2.5 mm thick wood so the drawing have been down sized to account for the thickness of the planking.  To ensure I leave enough space so that the planks will be flush with the keel I made a small section of the keel and reduced it by 2.5 mm and then cut the keel insert so that each bulkhead will sit correct hight off the keel.  The problem will come when I have to do bulkhead 20 as this section runs through the centre of the prop shaft.  Still working out how to do that.


The other work on the fibre hull will be HMS Indomitable, Illustrious sister ship which as you know was built along side her.   So I am going to have two Aircraft carriers on the lake and all working I hope. :-)) [size=78%] [/size]
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Capt Podge

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2014, 12:53:22 AM »

Hi Paul,
 
I'm just tagging along - hopefully learning along the way - good luck with your build(s) :-))
 
Regards,
 
Ray.
 
 
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2014, 04:03:19 AM »

Afternoon Paul....are all of those bulkhead frames laser cut?......you know with the black/burnt edges?

Looking good  :-)) are you going to lay & secure side supports for the bulkheads to that 9' base board?.......

Keep us posted ............... Derek
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2014, 09:09:48 AM »

Thanks Paul. I appreciate it sounds like a question with an obvious answer, but different people have their own way of doing things. I was thinking that 2.5mm planking was quite thick before remembering that your hull will be quite large!

As regards section 20, I assume the prop shaft hole will be almost as large as the available wood at that point? If so, could you reinforce that area with some steel sheet tacked in place with small screws or 12mm wire nails?
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2014, 06:39:13 PM »

Yes are correct the thickness of that section is 8 mm but the keel in this area has been increase with 6 mm each side from the  section 19 back to 21 to allow the rudder shaft and prop shaft to be full enclosed in the wood frame.   Once the prop shaft tunnel has been drilled out with a pilot hole (2 mm) and ready to be drilled out to 5 mm (the thickness of the outer shaft (the inner being 4 mm)) I will then drill through the the middle of this wide section to the side of 5 mm and square off the create a square hole 5 x 5 and then slot this section in until i get the correct hight and then bond in place, then drill through again with the 5 mm drill to allow the prop shaft through.  Then once the planking is in place and the filler and skin is fitted it should be fine. 
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2014, 06:46:59 PM »

Hi Derek.


Yes the frame have been laser for the main out line and have markings to show the centre line and the hanger deck.  As the hull is 7 ft 8" long and 13" hight and 12.9" wide that's a large boat to tray and make bulkheads that will fit and work with out lots of correcting work.  The area is far to big to try and make it all fit just  so.   So all the work went into the bulkhead drawings, as be the two attached photos.  Once these had been put on to a CAD file I arranged for them to be printed onto thick card and then cut each one out and built a cardboard hull.  Corrected the errors and then arrange for a firm to cut them for me.


The keel is held in place on the building board by retaining blocks placed in between the position of each bulkhead.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #33 on: December 15, 2014, 08:08:04 PM »

You have to make a few concessions to build ability otherwise the liklihood of a critical failure during construction rises. Do you work with CAD or did you learn for your interest? I wish I had had better tutors when I was at college as I regularly see jobs that could be done via CAD.

If I may be a cheeky mommet, How much did the cutting cost?
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #34 on: December 15, 2014, 08:59:56 PM »

I have never worked with CAD, but did play around with Coral Draw.  I found a company that could do art work and large photo copying.  I got them to photo copy the basic ship lines, then using the internet (U tube) I played around and found out how to swap over the sides. and make two drawings.   Got them printed out and went over the drawings with a 0.1 marker pen.   Recopied the ship lines and then used the auto facility on a CAD program to make a DWR drawing.   


Then shopped around to find a company that did laser cutting local to me.   Arranged a visit and after some negotiations he cleaned up my CAD drawing reduced it to  reflect the correct size to account for wood thickness and then I choose the wood I wanted for the frames after a few meetings to under stand how ship lines worked we started the cut process one at a time at first to ensure it worked.  He then worked out how to lay out the patterns to reduce wood waist and away we went.   


The price is dependant on the wood cost and the type of wood required and the degree of work required.   They could also cut the mounting grooves and also removed the inside sections of the frame but that would require a lot more work on the CAD side, then I had knowledge of.   So I will do that work in house and keep some of the work for me to do.    Also I can add little extras to the frames such as outer deck support beams as I go along and other ideas I have to assist the build process.


The guy I use is based in Glasgow and I was his first but I am sure he would like to do more.   If you have never worked with CAD but have a PDF file of the ship lines, he will do the CAD work and then send you the files and if happy will then cut as you require, and price will be given along with carriage.  (Point I would recommend use a courier for low weight items packed in large box/packages its cheaper.)
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2014, 10:42:20 AM »

Thanks for that Paul. So the 'Auto' facility on Coral takes a scan and turns it into a Drawing file which can then be manipualted with the drawing program? Sorry to be slow, but what you describe sounds tantalising. I have a friend who might be able to do a few bits for me.

Thanks again, I cannot wait to see more pictures of your build!
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2014, 02:42:32 PM »

Section 25 to 12 now on the keel (dry fit only). Stern section still to have frame 20 installed.  Will stop now till after Christmas As I need to look at the stern section, the frame seems weak and need to see if there is anything I can do.  Merry Christmas every one.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2014, 10:12:14 PM »

It does look quite frail along the stern section of the keel. I take my hat off to you for having built it the right way up as there is alot going on in that last twelve inches to prvent sagging. It is starting to look shipshape.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2015, 09:43:34 PM »


I have a small problem which I am not sure how to resolve.  Could any one help with possible ideas?
In the first picture and the second you will see the bow bulk heads matched with the ship lines, and as you see the bow plans look like the bow is very small and pointed with no reference to the flight deck over hang over the hull.   Picture 3 shows the same bulk heads position on the Flight deck plans in the position they are meant to be.


Picture 4 & 5 show the GRP hull bow with the bulk head lines roughly drawn.  The area on the last photo which is in black I do not know how this is going to be planked! There is nothing there to attach the planks to and nothing for the actual end of the flight deck.   As I lay the planks up to the bow section I am going to be left with fresh air!  Am I wrong or am I looking at this the wrong way?


Any help would be very helpful.   

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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2015, 10:23:40 PM »

Hi Paul......you certainly have a few quanderies  :o

1. Some builders would consider a sizeable block of balsa ...say 3" x 3" x 10" & shape the bow profile FWD of frames A, B &  Fp
2. This would then provide a surface to plank to.......

However from your image 3728 [incorrectly proportioned glass hull] indicates the flight deck is near parallel in beam from FWD of frame A >>>>>>>> back to frame B3
I am also assuming from frame A to Fp is the chain locker.......and Fp back to frame 1 1/2 is the forepeak water ballast hold

3. The support for the concave planking up to flight deck level could also be achieved with a pair of mirror reverse curved blocks shaped again from 3" x 3" laminated balsa blocks
4. You may also consider a smaller balsa block laid on the axis of the existing keel plate from A >>>>>>>> back to frame B3 to inset the lower planking into.......

Keep us posted.............Derek


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hmsantrim

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2015, 04:54:07 AM »

Hi paul.
 there was a scratch build of the WWII ark royal on here @ 2-3 years ago, don`t know if any of the data for that still exists on the forum you may have got some tips from the build.
 
frank
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2015, 07:41:13 PM »

Hi Frank,


Yes I found it, and read but the build was not completed and was sold on to some one who has not continued with the block.  But thanks anyway for the tip.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2015, 07:44:31 PM »

Hi Derek,


Thanks for that, so food for thought and some ideas to look at.  Once I have finished off the cut outs for the support beams which sit on the top of the bulk heads I will refit them to the keel and see how the bow looks and take stock at that time.  Will post photos with all the frames in place.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2015, 02:49:02 PM »


Now have the basic frame up with just four bulk heads to install.  One at the stern which has to be drilled into the keel so the prop shaft can be drilled through and matched up with the other bulk heads.  The other three are at the bow which are items A, B and forward point.  There will need a double groove cut made to fit them in place.   I can now remove the frame from its holding points and turn keel up.   The planking wood is now ready to be delivered so now well on my way.  Hope you like the build so far.


Next question, how best to chamfer the leading edges from 12 to the bow and the opposite from 13 to the stern.  Will need to find out how best to measure the angle and how much to take off.  Also need to but some balsa wood strips on the edges of the bulk heads to add a larger area for the planking to bond too.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2015, 08:32:54 PM »

The ply should be thick enough to support glued koins especially onece you start bevelling the edges which will actually increase the surface area for gluing planks to.

From what I recall having read and seen, bevelling is either a case of working by eye and stopping regularly to dry fit planks, or you can tape a plank in place and see what the triangle of air between the frame edge and the plank looks like and marking this on the far edge of the frame so you can build up a line to cut/sand the frame edge to.  Remember, the angle will change as you follow the frame edge around the bilges, and this counts for every frame.

I watched this a few months back on Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8ubucIk8WY

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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2015, 05:56:40 PM »


Some more work done on the hull.  Made the bilge keel from the ships drawing.  Started with a trace of the outline of the keel.   Then transpose this trace to a card board cut out noting the bulkhead positions.  With a nice bit of wood 4 mm thick copied the ship bulk heads from the drawing to the wood from bulk heads 9 through to 15.  Then transposed the card board outline to the the board matching up the bulkhead line markings. On the hull side line drawing added a 2.4 extra width to allow for the planking wood thickness.  Also made 5 mm extensions protruding from the hull side of the keels to fit into the slots made at the correct position in each of the bulkheads 9 to 15.   The positions of these slots was indicated in the ship lines as to the angle and position on the hull.  See picture 203 and 205 showing the diagonal lines from the ship centre line above the hanger deck line.


Here is the final result of all that work after a little bit of sand paper work and a buff.  This is again a dry fit, will now work out what areas to remove from the bulkheads to allow for the small outer decks to be fitted and the overall level for the mid section and the motors.

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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2015, 08:26:31 PM »

I am impressed with the bilge keels and see now that it is no too much of chore making them if you have plans.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2015, 04:09:31 PM »

The frames have now been removed and the centre sections have been cut out.  I have left the hanger deck supports on each bulkhead where there is an out side deck to add the support of the decks when they get fitted.  Also have fitted on bow sections 12 to FP 5 mm balsa wood sections around the edges to aid in the bevelling and giving a greater bonding area for the planks to bond too.   The first group are from mid section to bow.
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Paul Swainson

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2015, 04:12:02 PM »

These are the stern from 13 to 22.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Illustrious 87
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 08:38:41 PM »

It looks like a chalenge to plan out where the inserts for the Lifeboats etc will be in the hull side so you can make the frames correspond. Lovely work so far.
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