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Author Topic: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread  (Read 18652 times)

Mankster

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The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« on: December 08, 2014, 01:54:32 AM »

Well here we go again. My Third Engel Typhoon. I built my first one in 2002, not long after Engel brought out the original kit. I got about halfway through when other priorities brought a halt to proceeding. When I got back into building, there was a lot more information to be had online on the Typhoons and Engel had just released a new more accurate version, so I sold it and bought a new kit in 2006. A lot of modifications later, both cosmetic and structural and TK-20 Severstal  had  her first outing in 2007.



I believe at the time she was the most accurate functional RC model Typhoon class sub about. The now infamous YouTube video (shot by our very Subculture/Andy) brought a lot of enquiries and a lot more Engel Typhoons seemed to get built, employing some or most of the changes I made to the kit. I enjoyed conversing with all these builders and seeing better boats of this class getting built. One in particular, TK-17 by Gabriel, took the game to a whole new level. Unfortunately, 5 years on the sub is not yet completed. But this is the boat that motivated me to build another.

I have had a good few years away from model subs and it’s time to get back. The Typhoon has been my favourite sub since reading the Hunt for Red October and the class I have the most research material on. Accurate TK-17 and Tk-20 models are spoken for, so I settled on building the Project  941UM Dimitri Donskoi (nee TK-208) in her post 2002 refit guise.
I intend improve greatly on TK-20, not only in term of accuracy (though I will not be matching Gabriel’s TK-17), performance, function and presentation.

This thread is mainly to keep my motivation going over the next year or two that I expect it will take to her in the water, and to spur the next lot of Typhoon builders that come along.

12 years after my first, 8 years after my second, here we go…… :-))

Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 01:55:46 AM »

I guess a lot of readers will be familiar with the Typhoon Class (Project 941), the largest class of submarines ever built.  It comprised of 6 submarines:-

Tk 208 (launched 1980), refitted and launched as Dimitri Donskoi in 2002, TK-202, TK-13, TK17, and TK-20.
Tk 208 was refitted to carry and test the Bulava missiles to be used in the new Borey Class. The only others of the class still afloat are TK-17 and Tk-20 (which are due to be scrapped from 2018). Being Soviet and built in different yards over 9 years, they all turned out different – different length, different fitting and even some structural differences.

Anyway on with the pictures. Here what you get when you order the kit from Engel.










And all the parts laid out (some of you may some a some difference from the regular kit but more about that later)


U-33

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 08:38:36 AM »

This should be under the 'Masterclass' section...I'll be watching this like a hawk.  :-))


Rich
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Davy1

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 09:04:34 AM »

Yes indeed, Richard!
And very nice to see the "winter build" season starting.
Good luck with the build, Ramesh.

David
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Jack D

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 10:46:01 PM »

Good luck with the new build!
I've got to admit, if it wasn't for that infamous youtube video, I probably wouldn't be building my 212A now. I'd love to see how one of Engel's more (or probably MOST) complex kits go together, especially in the hands of a master.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2014, 10:12:01 AM »

As above. It will be good to see how this should be done properly!
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Subculture

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2014, 11:45:47 AM »

Lots of goodies there.

Engel's mechanisms for hydroplane and periscope retracts have always tickled me. Why do they use such big motors I wonder? You really only need a watt or two of juice for applications (e.g. a standard size servo).

Sub driver

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 11:59:13 AM »

Hi Ramesh.
Another Dimitri Donskoi i modelled mine on thatboat if you remember but with a KMB set of mouldings.
Will be nice to see the differences in the two .
Regsrds sub.
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Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 08:08:47 PM »

Hi Sub, yes of course I remember your boat. Kudos for scribing the tile pattern on the hull. I remember telling you about a feature you had added to the hull which was absent on Tk-208 but present on 3 of the other hulls, and also telling you that probably no one else will be would ever pull you up on it  :-)). You still have a page on my website (which I haven't update in a while but will but that right at some point).

Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 08:21:45 PM »

The top has lip that runs around the circumference which imparts a lot of rigidity. The centre section of the lower hull bows outwards, even when the top hull is installed; and only achieves its final rigidity when the middle deck/Water tight box is bonded into the hull at later stage. I noticed the original Engel Typhoon (2001-2006) had a more heavily laid lower hull that could maintain its shape better without the middle deck in place.  In order for the top and bottom hull to form a smooth joint it is necessary to hull the lower hull inwards by the correct amount whilst the middle deck is being bonded in.  The instruction don’t suggest how to achieve this. For TK 20 I use some large F clamps to bring the lower hull in by th e correct amount. This time I was more sensible and made a Jig to hold the lower hull from 3 pieces of plywood – two sides screwed to a base. Once the lower hull is inside I added thin shims between the plywood sides and the hull whilst test fitting the top hull to get it just right.





The middle decks sides can then be sanded by the correct amount that it fits in the lower hull snugly.

Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 08:46:34 PM »

I found using a laser line indispensable for finding the midline accurately of all the bits that need to be fitted to the hull.




U-33

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 08:52:27 PM »

Is the radio box permanently bonded into the hull, Ramesh? Or is it removable?


Rich
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hollowhornbear

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 08:59:17 PM »

bonded Rich, think you need to go to specsavers %% . Ramesh mentioned it in his post.
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U-33

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 09:02:26 PM »

bonded Rich, think you need to go to specsavers %% . Ramesh mentioned it in his post.


I knew that...I was just seeing if you were paying attention.   ;D


Rich
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Subculture

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2014, 05:51:15 PM »

I wonder what size ballast tank the KMB requires to reach a scale waterline compared with the Engel. I thought that being a epoxy glass hull it might be thinner, and therefore displace a lot less.

Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 08:06:42 PM »

As you know Russian subs sit very high due to double hulls. The Typhoon should sit with about 15% of the props out of the the water. I once calculated you would only need around 900ml to float an Engel hull at the correct waterline. The rest of the ballast volume is to lift the the top of the WTC and any other volume you add like the periscope mech, front dive planes etc...

Subculture

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 08:32:10 PM »

Do you have to have the WTC above the waterline?

Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 11:54:22 PM »

No unfortunately if you go with the Engel tanks the top of the WTC ( cylinder or box) is going to be be above the waterline. The Engel box for this model is actually pretty efficient height a wise and the piston tanks only just fit. A Cylinder does offer volume savings due to its shape, but overall height would be the same and would have to be longer. You would have to move to smaller, longer piston tanks or a different ballast system in a smaller cylinder to make a significant improvement. Rons/Micks Typhoon sat lower in the water than my TK-20.

Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2014, 08:51:57 PM »

After some discussion on the Dive Into Model Submarines Facebook page, deciding on the merits of a cylinder or watertight box, I decided to stick with the Engel Box. Cutting out the top of the middle deck and fitting a polycarbonate lid on an Engel sub seems to be pretty much standard these days. The doubts that existed over if one would fatally weaken the hull or if it would be able to withstand the pressure, have been put to bed. On my first Typhoon I just replace the original metal lid with a Polycarbonate one of the same size.
On my second one I enlarged the hole and made a single large lid to make it much easier to install the innards and service the boat. This time I settled on 2 openings, the smaller one will access the charging ports etc.., whilst the larger one should pretty much not need removing once done. This will cut down greatly the time needed to undo the nuts to charge batteries and ventilate the boat.





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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2014, 11:21:36 PM »

Silly question, but with a charge port in the sub are the batteries fully open to the air to prevent hydrogen build up if one of the batteries has a catastrophic faliure?
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Davy1

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2014, 01:30:50 PM »

I suppose there is always a very remote risk of generating hydrogen but probably no more risky than, say, using Lipos (which I have now been doing for several years. Touch wood!)

The real problems from hydrogen were there when lead acid batteries were unsealed. Quite a few explosions then I think.

Personally, I always like to ventilate the boat after dives anyway. (Electronics don't like any damp or condensation.)

David
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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2014, 01:33:34 PM »

the smaller cover will be rmoved to charge the batteries and ventilate the WTC.
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Mankster

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2014, 02:02:50 PM »

Yes I will have to remove the smaller lid to charge the batteries. Hydrogen being lighter than air should find its way out easily enough. Could prop up the front end of the boat a little when charging to help it out I suppose, but I am sure it will be fine as it is.

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2014, 03:02:40 PM »

If you manage to get liFe's gassing off when charging, I would say that is the least of your worries

NFMike

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Re: The 1:100 Project 941UM Typhoon Build Thread
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2014, 03:34:35 PM »

Another issue with sealed enclosures is that the batteries get warm when charging. I had this problem with a large locomotive where it was not practical to get the cells out to charge - 10 C size NiMH for 12V.
I got a small computer type fan, about 2" I think, and connected it across the charge socket with a diode to the battery so it ran whenever the charger was connected and blew air through the battery pack. Would obviously help disperse gases too.
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