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Author Topic: modelradioworkshop diesel sound  (Read 8070 times)

derekwarner

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2015, 12:15:01 PM »

With the greatest respect Alan  %), I suggest members were only offering an alternative to your disappointment as you first raised with your Seagull sound posting :o ............ Derek
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inertia

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2015, 02:09:09 PM »

Ok, spend more money!!
All I wanted was a reasonable diesel sound that varied with speed.
Surely it can't be that difficult.
I really don't think I should need to start finding noises myself to program into things.
It was a notion to try out, but I'll just forget it now.
Thanks all.
Alan
My good friend and favourite electronics genius The Floating Wombat has a sign on his office door which reads "GOOD. CHEAP. NOW. You can have any two of three". In this case what you seek is available now, but the cheap ones aren't much good and the good ones aren't cheap. You won't need to start finding noises or programming things into other things but you will need to disavow yourself of the idea that twenty quid will tick all the boxes on your wish-list.
If you can find one that does that then would you please let us all know?
DM
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timgarrod

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2015, 03:43:58 PM »

i've tried a few now,

techobot
robbe navy
graunper sound switch (same as USM-RC2above)

will now only use the USM-RC2 as so flexible if you have to muti switches for robbe or graunper tx's.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2015, 10:32:22 AM »

Quote
"GOOD. CHEAP. NOW. You can have any two of three".
The thing is, for any such system, to make your own to break through the barrier.  By doing that, you figure out why the good ones cost what they do.  There is a long running thread in the "homebrew hacks" section on RCGroups that could help, both with figuring out how to do it and why doing it right costs, both hardware and time.
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Dieselman

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2016, 09:14:13 PM »

I am relatively new to the sound scene, have read through the thread and am left asking questions.


What is P110, referred to a number of times?


From my research I am at a loss at the availability of sounds, both synthetic or real.  I am seeking to fit sound to a twin screw diesel tug, the real one runs two medium speed 12 Cylinder Vee form 12000 Hp four stroke turbo charged diesel engines that run at 750 rpm as they are driving Controlled / Variable Pitch Props in Kort Nozzles.  Therefore there is only a start up, run and shut down sounds. 
Call me picky if you wish, but I do not want seagulls  or squeaky rowlocks just plain old four stroke blown diesels, please. Plus if it has to have digital sound samples uploaded it needs to be Mac compatible, please!


So over to you, the specialists of sounds.  Ian
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derekwarner

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2016, 09:56:51 PM »

Hey Dieselman.....possibly of consideration, whilst a vessel with twin engines & VPP or CPP may have an optimal engine speed [RPM] the actual load on the engine will vary with the pressure angle of the propeller blades

The load on the engine at 750 RPM at zero prop angle will be as you suggest constant...and therefore a constant sound signature, however as the prop blade swash angle increases, the load on the engine will increase requiring more fuel = louder engine exhaust sound relative to the combustion even though the engine is being governed [electronically] to maintain that optimal engine RPM

You may also be able to exploit the actual sounds of the situation if each of the real vessel Kort nozzles are independently steerable as this would then double the options for potential sound range

Your definition as being turbocharged is important as turbocharged engines do have a clearly distinct audible sound over normally aspirated engines of the same cylinder sizing and configuration etc

I have little knowledge of the Black Art so will also stand aside for the specialists of sounds  %)..... Derek
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malcolmfrary

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2016, 09:22:13 AM »


What is P110, referred to a number of times?


Possibly a newer version of (or a misplint for) this - http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P100.pdf
The sound quality is determined by the amplifier used, the speaker, how the speaker is mounted (these 3 are common to all sound units) but is also dependent on the quality of the sample used.  A better sample will give a better result, but all units are limited by the first three considerations.
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Shipmate60

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2016, 01:08:43 PM »

When listening to a boat/ship passing the main engines are not usually the most audible.
The generators being usually smaller and turbocharged tend to make a higher pitched noise which travels further and is more noticeable.
The main engines with their larger diameter exhaust and silencer just supply a background "rumble".
Unless manouvering alongside or around an obstacle the main engines are designed and used at their most fuel efficient speed and not changed much at all.


Bob
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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2016, 01:59:30 PM »

When listening to a boat/ship passing the main engines are not usually the most audible.
The generators being usually smaller and turbocharged tend to make a higher pitched noise which travels further and is more noticeable.
The main engines with their larger diameter exhaust and silencer just supply a background "rumble".
Unless manouvering alongside or around an obstacle the main engines are designed and used at their most fuel efficient speed and not changed much at all.


Bob

Couldn't agree more! I have heard very few model sound systems that sound anything like right for a bigger engine. I think that the best that I have heard is in this and it is, I was told, no longer commercially available :

 
Regretably that big deep rumble needs a big speaker/ cabinet to get it to sound correct. I actually think that the sound does differ slightly with throttle. There is a constant background rumble but then an exhaust rumble that somehow gets a little more pronounced with throttle. I haven't tried this but I suspect that a constant background plus a slightly throttle dependent engine thudding rumble would do the job.

Standing at the harbour entrance Felixstowe at a very quiet and calm 6am on a beautiful summer morning with a large container ship on the move with tugs in attendance is a perfect example of this.
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Dieselman

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #34 on: January 30, 2016, 05:27:53 PM »

Thank you all, especially Derek, who has the honour of being the first respondent to my first Mayhem Forum Pos!


I did wonder if the P110 was actually Action Electronics P100 "Noisy Thing" 
Currently this falls over purely because it is Windows based and all my sounds etc are on a Mac! Secondly it would be good to hear of anyone else's experiences with this piece of kit, ease of use, control of it, does it multi function, i.e. supply the "background Auxiliaries sounds  ( gennie's, fans, pumps compressors etc) and then give main engine and or thruster sounds simultaneously as in the real world, or what.


As to the advice on speaker, mounting of etc, fully understood, have awful memories of early sound system at home, all due to poor speakers!!


I know I am new at this sound thing, but cannot help wondering why I keep hearing model boats that have engines that would be air start, by air admission direct to its cylinders sounding like a Big Rig with an Electric Starter Motor!
Am thinking that this may be a lost cause right now, due to the end result not matching up due to amp and speaker limitations in a model boat.  No sound is better than a bag of spanners rattling away!


Any more thoughts from you knowledgable ones, thanks
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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #35 on: January 30, 2016, 09:15:15 PM »

P110 will be the replacement for P100 - eventually... 8)
DM
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Brian60

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2016, 08:39:13 AM »

I'm a bit late to this discussion however, surely the over riding sound to be heard from a model is the relative whine of the electric drive motors? How do the sound units overcome this or are they so loud that they can drown out the whine? I've not experienced a sound unit so would be interested how they solve this conundrum.

Also the sound from your diesel unit may be heard when close in, but 30ft out on a lake? If you can hear it then surely it is out of all proportion to the model and of course real life which is what you are trying to imitate. A bit like having a car stereo playing normally and one of the idiots with a mobile boom box on wheels.

derekwarner

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2016, 09:00:51 AM »

This is interesting %) & I suggest where true scale [sound] may not necessarily be the better option

The sound of a medium speed turbo charged diesel engines of the sizing originally mentioned, would be realistic even when used on VPP or CPP :-)).......... Derek
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wombat

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Re: modelradioworkshop diesel sound
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2016, 10:59:05 AM »

Hopefully not that eventually Dave.....


Pre-production prototypes lined up for test. RC1 software handed over. I would hope to be able to talk specs soon


Wom

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