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Author Topic: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build  (Read 272876 times)

Starspider

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looking good  :-))
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Thanks Colin,
I have to just try and remember to do a little every few days, not always easy, but the next few days looks quiet in the diary - tempting fate there!!
Kim
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Starspider

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At least you have started and making progress, I still can not see my bench yet !!!!
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Good to hear from Derek [ :-)) ] and Colin, same here mate - my workshop is SO untidy! That's why I'm working in the garden!
Now before I move on, and just in case there are some new to our hobby watching here, a few words about plans.
  • Know the provenance of your plans. Are they accurate and have they been photocopied? If so by whom and to what number of decimal places?
  • Also note that plans from most direct marine sources do say 'not for scaling'. In other words 'beware' they may be inaccuracies - some put in on purpose. However, other produced specifically for model builders are normally produced so you can replicate direct from the plans.
  • Mark any that you are satisfied with in pencil, crossing out the scale marking if you have enlarged and put the new scale in. I also tick such matters as overall length, width, bow and stern measurements. I also make such a note on the outside exposed top corner when this plan is rolled - easier to find when going through a number for a particular boat.
I have three different sources for my Shannon lifeboat. Those bought from the RNLI at 1/25th scale [mainly] another set enlarged to 1/12th scale [ or so I am told] and a third set, donated to me, but no provenance and around the 1/12th.
Be sure to check the plans and the model sizes BEFORE progressing on to anything - especially cutting and modifying!!
An example. I have the Models by Design hull with a length of 43 and 11/16 of an inch. Fact. Depending on whether you multiply or divide the RNLI plans in your calculations by either 13.6 or 13.64 you will get slight variations in length. If you have surmised that the boat is a 13 metre class and used that figure [it has been known!] then you are going to be way out. Now I have a set of plans [one of those already enlarged] which is virtually [give or take a couple of milimetres] that comes up to the actual length of the MbD hull length and width, and that is the set I will use. In the past I have actually had plans blown up to exactly what the model hull is, so it is actually either a smidge over or under the actual 1/12th scale. THis way when measuring to make items they are the actual measurements to use. The models won't be going in for any competitions, so this won't lose me points.
Also look for little notes on plans that say '...overall length...overall width.... measurements, NOT including fixed fenders...' as this too will cause another problem, if using a stated measurement incorrectly. Finally, when measuring onto the model and making markings, work from the middle of the boat [normally Station 5 on a lifeboat] outwards to both bow and stern. That way an small inaccuracy is not compounded into the middle! If you do have to make 'allowances' and play about with wheelhouse measurements, fixtures and fittings, then any decision made about those matters above, mark onto you drawings. You will not remember in ten years time [when you pick up this much treasured project again] what you did 'X' years ago!!
I hope that has helped some and not bored others that are a lot more experienced than me; but that is what this Forum is all about, passing on lessons learnt, so others can enjoy it and not make the same mistakes - hopefully!
Talking of mistakes I masked up and put the glass-fibre tape and resin into the keel yesterday - and even though I used the right amount of catalyst hardener, it would not 'go off' - harden. So today I took it all out, then masked off the inside and started again. Having just checked it appears to now be hardening, using three times the amount indicated and used by me before. Maybe I have gone past the 'sell by date'?
Note that yesterday I put the cut section of tape into the hull, ready to lay-up, just in case the resin went off quickly!! Ho,Ho!
Also, please remember that this was 'self-inflicted' damage and not down to the moulding received from MbD. I am a member of the ERCU [Elite Rivet Counters' Union] and was just trying to get it to my liking!
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Starspider

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Kim if it was very humid that could have been the problem with the resin going off I have had this before.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Good point Colin, not one I have come across before, so thanks for the 'experience' input.
Kim
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Well, the resin and glass-fibre taping took a little more time than I envisaged and I put another length down the starboard side - no photos as we all know what I've done before. It still took a long time to start going off, and is still tacky, so maybe I'll replace the resin and hardener when I'm next in town. However, Colin's comment above was worth bearing in mind for future attempts.
Yesterday I spent a lot of time going over the plans I have acquired and found and decided to go with two sets that are exactly the length and width of the hull that Andy has supplied and those for the wheelhouse show it [the model] to be an eight of an inch too long. Also, one of the hatches looks slightly long, but I'll cover that when I finally get the wheelhouse cut to length and sitting on the deck correctly - it's all down to how much this will reduce the length of the wheelhouse at the deck level. You really cannot hurry at this point as it will impact on anything done in the future. I also used a pencil to mark the bow and stern markings to start the 'tayloring' of the deck to the hull along its centre line.
Today I started to look at putting in three 'stretchers' made of aluminum to keep both the width [beam] measurement a constant thirteen and a half inches along its main length. They are also meant to put in and keep a constant camber either side of the wheelhouse and at the bow and stern areas of deck. From the plans and boat this appears to be around 3" [a quarter of an inch at 1/12th scale] at its maximum, tapering off at bow and stern.
I cut the 'T' section 'ali' to length, cut off ends to go under the deck returns in the hull and then drilled those returns at the stern deck area to take M2 countersunk stainless bolts, marked these onto the stretcher and tapped an M2 thread either end. Temporary fitting made and then drew onto it the profile wanted. Removed it and using my linisher, and a bucket of water to cool the 'ali' off, I profiled it. Finished off edges using a Perma-Grit block and some wet and dry paper on a small teak wood block.
It looked as though a little more is needed to be 'rounded off' at the angled surface, so as not to give a small high point. At this moment it started to rain - why? So I quickly marked up the stern area to give me the centre line so I could start a temporary fixing of the deck over the first stretcher. There will be another across the middle of the hull opening [which will have support posts inserted and the middle section cut out, finally] and another just forward of the wheelhouse nose.
I then came indoors and decided to catch up on this. Might get back out later, if not, tomorrow I will attempt to get the other two stretchers made and fitted, then marry the deck to the hull. It's now sunny, but throwing it down with rain, so have picked some strawberries and come in to watch the tennis!!
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Starspider

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Kim does the deck have a proper camber or is it a straight line by that I mean an angle from the deck edge until it hits the centre line.
If it has a proper camber it is not too difficult to loft. (hope I am not teaching you to suck eggs)  ok2


peace colin
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Colin,
From the RNLI plans [little that they show in cross section on these Shannon ones!] and my photos and visits it seems to be a straight line from the deck edge to the edge of the wheelhouse. Then the forward deck takes a very gentle curve near the wheelhouse nose [just visible in one of my head on shots] and likewise the stern deck, although this is also picked up in the gentle curve on the transom deck line at the very edge. I will just try and get all of these to blend and go with that, better than having a flat deck at the bow [and partial stern] and along the sides of the wheelhouse. That said, it is gentle at both the bow and stern when looking at the fittings plates and access hatches.
On my next visit, hopefully next week, I shall take further measurements and photos [along with the water intake apertures and the trailer pneumatic wheel-rest bulges on the hull], then if any small adjustment is needed I can make them on the [temporary fixing] method I am using here.
Kim
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Starspider

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Cool Kim was just wondering  :-)
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Today was the dodge the showers game - but I stuck at it and some small progress was finally made.
Every time I handle this superb moulding of the hull I get quite excited. The feel and lines of her at 1/12th scale are just wonderful. As I have said before the moulding is light, yet quite rigid and sturdy, even more so, now that all three stretchers are made and temporarily screw fixed into place. This has allowed me to again temporarily fix the deck fore and aft and then trim the edge down to almost the right size. This has given a slight camber in the right places, but this will be more positive next week when I get time to fix it all around the edge. I will then make some small adjustments so no 'stress' points are evident to the sight and to the touch.
Off to RNLI Newhaven tomorrow, along with 17-09, to support their Open Day with an LBES three table display of models and lifeboat paraphenalia - the Shannon will be displayed on one table with my photographic display of the real one at Dungeness, should get quite a bit of attention.
Slowly, but surely the build progresses. These stretchers certainly [well just the first one did on its own!] keep the hull edge from flexing down its length and one can easily pick it, up with confidence, by the middle one. They are spaced from the stern edge at ten and a half inches, then 12" further forward [each being 13 and a half inches wide] and then the final one on the fore deck another 12 inches forward.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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A great day at the Newhaven RNLI Open Day today with 17-09. Much interest shown in our stand, Alan's fabulously finished and detailed models [Brede Class, 'Y' Class RIB and  the 1/72nd Airfix Severn Class, the 41' Beach Class from Dungeness in 1933 built by John Sanders and, of course, the Models by Design 1/12th Shannon and my photographic display. This was by crew, visitors and modellers alike.
One of the crew [James aka Doris] has sent me some shots of the Dungeness Shannon [13-02] returning to Newhaven during the week, where an exchange was made with the Relief boat RNLB Reg [13-07]. I shall now attempt to get to Dungeness Monday as their boat has returned from its maintenance - hence the Relief boat - and I can take some more measurements.
Although there were many RNLI collecting boxes out on the Green, where the Fete was held, and also at the Station [including the shop] Alan and I still collected 29-94.
The 'eagle eyed' amongst you, that know your lifeboats, will have noticed that the recently returned Newhaven lifeboat [from having its new MTU engines fitted] has been given a facelift in the guise of new handrails, door and hatch surrounds, steps, salvage pump, telecomms tower and flying bridge window supports in a galvanised finish rather than the normal colour painted sufaces - all in the name of saving money on future maintenance. Now there's a different finish for someone to put on there model - eh Craggles?
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Canterbury Coxswain

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I've just been speaking to the Coxswain [Stuart Adams] of the Dungeness Shannon Class lifeboat, now that she is back on Station. The de-lamination that everyone has been speaking about is nothing to do with the main hull and its construction or integrity - this is fine - it was the bow PU [Polyurethane] sheet coating - lighter grey colour in the photo - that protects the bow bottom section of the hull. This has been rectified, HOWEVER, the RNLB 'The Morrell' 13-02 has now returned with a 'black bottom' [17-09, for black please read 'anthracite'] and this is going to be on all the Shannon fleet now! So some of you will have a choice of finishes on you model, before and after. A real rivet counters' dream! Now why did I not spot that on the preceding photos I posted? Now I know, I can see it quite plainly!
I will be visiting again [just made an appointment as it is a busy week for Dungeness] to photograph and get some more measurements for my model which are not that clear on the RNLI plans, but the Relief Shannon 13-04 was there in January and this is what it looks like.
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Hi Kim

Looks like you had a good day at Newhaven, Really disappointed I couldn't make it but will keep the date free next year if you go again.
I saw the picture of the two Shannons on the Newhaven Lifeboat Facebook page last week. Shame I didn't know it was going to happen otherwise I'd have popped down there and taken a look, well, would have if I wasn't holidaying in sunny Kent. Visited lots of boats while there, Dover, Walmer, Ramsgate, Margate and Whitstable. Bought a few more fridge magnets for the collection!  :embarrassed:

Yes, I will be building my Severn to represent the latest and greatest incarnation of 17-21 so she will indeed have the galvanised colour fittings. Need to think about what paint to use for that now.

Craig.

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Canterbury Coxswain

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As 13-02 was back on station with her new 'below waterline' paint job, thought I had better get down there and take some more photos for the record and also get some measurements before cutting the wheelhouse to fit, as some of the plans I have have conflicting angles and measurements for the deck camber from wheelhouse bottom to edge of deck. I also wanted to get underneath for some photos and measurements of the main water-jet intakes and the hull protection 'bulge' on either side of the underside at the stern. These will all need to be either fabricated, cut out or added to the MbD hull, alongside that provided by the KMB water-jets.
I also took down with me an amount of 137.50, made up from cheques for a talk fee [100] I give on the 'launch and recovery' of this lifeboat and the various sums that some of you have donated of the past few weeks for the purchase of my DVD of photos [over 1,200 now] for the Shannon Class - so thank you very much, this is now over 500 for this year and this Station and is very much appreciated by the team down at Dungeness.
The day went well and a fruitful three hours was spent doing what I set out to do. Also Stuart [Coxswain] and Trevor [Engineer] gave me time to answer more questions and open up flaps and covers that I did not know what they were there for or covering!
All of this was then meant to give me ample time and confidence to get on with four days modelling, culminating with watching the Euro2016 final tonight. Oh, how wrong I was!! The last four days have been spent flat on my back, most of the time, since late Wednesday night when I seemed to have trapped a nerve in my back - excruciating pain that not even my most powerful 'painkillers' have even touched. Off to the doctors' tomorrow. So I thought I would add a few notes of details I have picked up and pass them on for those that are making a Shannon model or just plain interested.
You will see from the photos that 13-04 above differs from 13-02 in that she no longer has the PU [Polyurethane] contoured 'patch' that 13-01 and 13-04 had. I am told this is what all Shannons will eventually have. Then the following I gleaned from my walk around:
  • Having first used my long spirit level to check that 13-02 was in fact on the level, I measured off the deck angle at the first cleat on the starboard side, forward of the stern of the wheelhouse. This is a camber of 2". At the next cleat - immediately where the w/h nose starts and the fore-peak survivors' cabin ventilation outlet is - this is 1 and a half inches, and at the front of the w/h nose it is 1".
  • The shoulder height locker on the port side, immediately as you walk towards the wheelhouse door, contains the rolled fire hose [not illustrated].
  • The two lockers on the opposite side of the same approach, but lower down are rope lockers [illustrated]
  • The hatch at the back of the step to the upper steering position and above the stern facing life-raft container storage area is for the helicopter strops, survivor gantry strops and the casualty vessel's drogue [illustrated].
  • Note how the engine room stern access hatch cover sits proud of the deck - measurements taken! [Illustrated]
  • There is a distinct profile to the bilge keels [illustrated]
These new 130 photos will be added to the DVD in future. If any of the previous folk [DVD purchasers] want a CD with them on - just drop me a PM and I'll get them off to you asap - free.

I hope this might be of some use to folk as I sit here feeling sorry for myself. Cheers.
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Nice photos again Kim keep them coming. As a update on later Shannons they changed the style of the rear door hinges which can be seen in one of your photos and they have also done away with the rivets on the rear hatch and the front hatch as well [photos enclosed]

Mk1
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Nicely spotted Mk1 - an eagle-eyed Mayhemer! The 'rivets' are in fact dome headed flat bladed screws, with the different marking out of the anti-slip marking. Just goes to show that you need to 'know' your boat if you want to make a very good representation of her or one for your favourite RNLI Station's vessel. A bit like yourself, as the trend setter that you are - it was you that kicked this all off and totally scratch built 'to boot', not just one, but TWO! I must say that last set of photos of yours were wonderful and a real inspiration to the rest of us. Keep them coming and also anything else you notice that is different. Maybe one day we'll meet - don't forget the International Model Boat Show at the Warwick Exhibition Centre just outside Leamington Spa in November. I would gladly give up my area of display on the LBES stand for one of your Shannons to be there [should we be tight for space] for the public to see!! Please give it serious thought.
Might add a few more photos of my latest visit tonight, but in the meantime I will burn off a CD of the latest ones and pop it in the post later in the week - just for your interest and veiwing.
Kim
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mk1

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Thanks Kim for got to say the front hatch also have hinge changes [enclosed photo]

Mk1
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Looking really nice, Hope to see it soon, Mr B
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Well, four days turned into three weeks and I have not been able to lift or stand for very long, because of the trapped nerve [even when taking the 'happy pills]. So the model build had to go on hold.
Yesterday I felt a little better so ventured into the outside workshop [garden] and progressed with shaping the deck to the hull profile. Here are some pointers for those that are following this and have also got the MbD model and have not yet started [of which I know there are quite a few from the Personal Messages -PMs - I have had, and those that I have met at recent shows]. However, I do realise [and so do you] tht very quickly you are going to overtake me and not use the same processes that I am employing.
  • You will see that I have marked the edge of the hull sides and put a line across the deck in three places, marking where the 'T' section aluminium deck support stretchers are.
  • The centre lines scribed fore and aft by Andy of MbD on the deck are correct and allowed me to fix this to the hull using M2 cap head screws. I have now replaced these, countersinking the top of the deck hole and CNA gluing [superglue] a small brass washer underneath to stop the new countersunk M2x6 [6mm long] from being pulled through. I have also placed a small brass plate underneath the edge rim to the hull that has been tapped to an M2 thread and aligns with the deck hole. This allows a solid fix and the plate is epoxy resined into place.
  • With the deck screwed down I put masking tape across the stern and down the Port side to protect the side of the hull, even though it will eventually be wet and dry sanded and primed and then painted. This will just keep it looking presentable for displays at Shows over the coming months.
  • I then sanded it back using a PermaGrit block - expensive, but I have a few of their tools and they do the job and last a long while.
  • The masking along the profiled sheer line of the deck was slow on the Port side, but when I did it on the Starboard side I just overlapped it onto the top edge of the hull, along the deck retaining lip - why did I not think of that last time? Again I sanded it back to the deck edge and it went well. You will see from the photos that on the stern Starboard quarter the scribed line is inset a little - this is not a problem as the deck comes trimmed, but with a generous amount beyond this. I just would not want someone to trim, without first offering it up, and then find they had over trimmed it. The small scribe line can then be 'wet and dry' sanded back. Absolutely no problem at all.
  • On removing the tape the deck looked good. However, I did notice that where the stern and mid-deck support bars were fine in their new contours [taken from the Dungeness visit measurements, the one which is just forward of the wheelhouse nose needed a little more reduction [1/24th of an inch], this has been done and now looks fine. This should give the correct deck camber at the side of the wheelhouse and on the forward [peak] deck.
  • I then started to mark up the little brass squares to go under the deck rim that will be added for the decks screws that will temporarily hold the deck in place throughout my build for access for the water-jet fitting and the working trim plane [tab] fitting, as well as other servos and electrics. It might even be that they stay in place, but hidden, if required for maintenance at a later stage. That is plan 'B'.
All in all a good day's work; at times it felt slow, but when I tried to speed up a few mistakes were nearly made on the sanding process. I'll attempt to have another go tomorrow and mark up the screw holes down each side, but more of that later.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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The one thing I forgot to say was that to my eye it now looked as if my centre line was not properly drawn on in a couple of places, so I cleaned the lines off and remarked using my special ruler for this and it also allowed me to check the deck lines and hatch indentations against the plans. What is now on in the photos I am satisfied with to progress further. My mistake was I had gone off line in the middle of the deck by not using a long enough straight edge, it was only a few millimetres, but when later measurements are made and deck fittings are marked out it will show up!
All of this takes time, but needs to be in place if the bottom edge of the wheelhouse is going to be cut and fitted accurately and squarely where it should be - especially those jolly old deck cambers along the side of the wheelhouse and up onto the fore [peak] deck.
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I just cannot believe it, a third consecutive day in the 'outdoor' workshop!! That's not happened in the last five years!!
I've marked all the screw positions now around the deck edge:-
  • put a 5mm line inboard from the deck edge around the deck face
  • then from the bow centre one [already shown in previous photos] marked on both sides a mark on that line in a direct line of 138mm. That then being the first on each of the sides
  • progressed along the 5mm line for another 75mm and marked
  • then another two - these each at 70mm
  • then 8 more at a 100mm intervals and that brought me to the stern corners, a 'smidge' under the 100mm here, but just balancing matters out.
  • I then drilled, with the appropriate tapping drill for an M2 thread the holes through the deck and into hull lip edge and through. Then starting at the front tapped each hole completely through with the M2 tap by hand
  • then countersunk each hole.
  • Starting from the front on the Starboard side put two M2x6mm stainless countersunk screws in, then did the Port side. Progressed in this fashion down both sides a couple at a time - hoping not to get a 'ripple' like in carpet laying sometimes! All went well and 'bit' into the GRP tapped holes very securely. So all those little brass squares cut up yesterday are at this moment redundant. However, should a thread strip, all I have to do is hold in position underneath the hull lip, mark, drill, tap M2 thread and 'Araldite' to underside - job done and reinforced considerably. Out of the 24 tapped holes this afternoon only one stripped from the outset, because I put too much down pressure whilst tapping the hole! I will remedy this the first time I take the deck off.
  • I was very pleased with the results - but not my photograph of it [attached], so will try to get a better shot on Monday.
Well, that was it for today as I then had to charge batteries, look my 1/8th scale divers' boat 'Diving Belle' over and get ready for one of my Club's [Cygnets MBC] Open Regattas tomorrow at Mote Park, Maidstone - 'Boats on the Mote'. If you are in the vicinity or want a day out come over. MBA-Dover will be there with a large display across three gazebos, the Hosts always have plenty, normally with IC fast off-shores and Heron MBC and Tugs-R-Us normally come. It's a great park with Cafe, toilets, a very large lake, steam trains and very pleasant surroundings. I'll probably take the Shannon along as part of my display and to make a talking point with modellers and public alike - there will be hundreds of visitors. Ignore the Cygnets MBC website that says 'no event on' for 31st July - we'll be there and so should they!!

Monday might see me marking and cutting out the aperture for the hull access on the deck section - depends on the weather.
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Canterbury Coxswain

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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2016, 10:57:33 am »

With deck in place [temporarily] it has shown I am still out, by only a very little on the stern stretcher. This just needs to have the tops of the angled slopes just lowered by around 1mm [I can just feel them and then when I look at that point the 'rise' can just be seen]. As the means taking the deck off [unscrew] I decided yesterday to push on with cutting out the hull access aperture in the deck while it was still in place.
  • Firstly, I drew a line around the edge 12.5mm inboard - the size of the hole saw I was going to use to take out the corners
  • Then I drew in the 12.5mm circles at each corner or angle, marking their centres
  • Through the centres I made 'pilot' holes for the central drill section of the hole saw
  • I drilled out the six 12.5mm holes
  • Using my trusty Dremel drill I then cut along the straight lines, releasing the inner section from the main deck provided. Keep this piece of flat GRP sheet, as it will come in handy to fabricate other internal boxes, should you wish to have them resined and taped in place to make a solid job
  • I then finished off the internal edge all around and underneath with a medium grade PermaGrit block and then some 180 grade green oxide paper.
With that job done I will take off the deck, adjust that stern stretcher, re-check and if OK look at marking out the wheelhouse base line, where it meets the deck and then trim off to this line so she sits on the deck accurately. That will be done [weather permitting] over the next couple of days.
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Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #48 on: August 03, 2016, 11:59:55 pm »

Thanks to those that have sent the odd PM to say that the 'thread' makes for interesting reading. The reason I do this is so that anyone that might be building this Shannon model [maybe even their first model] can have some idea of the way I am approaching it [rightly or wrongly by others' views]. It has the potential to promote views of other approaches and processes I have not thought of, thereby giving other modellers a choice. It's also there for those that are past building models, but enjoy seeing others' builds or even those that might want to build a modern day lifeboat. It is to cover a spectrum of readers. So I hope the detail helps, even if the odd person might think it somewhat loquacious or over detailed.
Three things I just want to mention, that I have omitted over the last couple of 'posts'.
  • I forgot to say where I sourced my M2x6mm countersunk stainless steel bolts - they were from Knupfer [www.knupfer.info]. They have a large trade stand at the Dortmund Intermodellbau and for the past six years I have spent a 'small fortune' on their products for my workshop stores box. They are well worth the extra and many others in these hallowed pages refer and use them on their model builds too.
  • Also a few folk have mentioned they have not seen the 'centre-finder' ruler I used a couple of posts back - here is a slightly better close-up.
  • Lastly, I mentioned in the last post that I needed to lower/adjust the stern stretcher. When I had taken it out I measured it with my digital vernier calipers and both sides were the same. I then has a 'Damascus road' revelation!! Look at the underside of the starboard side of the deck surface. There it was, a small GRP nodule of resin! When sanded off, all was well. I get so used to using styrene sheet I forgot to think of the obvious and the material I was now using! 'Simples'.
Hope this has helped someone. Kim
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Canterbury Coxswain

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  • Is there anything other than lifeboats and yachts?
  • Location: Canterbury, Kent
Re: Shannon 'RNLB The Morrell' 13-02 [Models by Design] - a 1/12th build
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2016, 12:05:20 am »

Oops - the bolts label shows that there are 50 in the pack at a cost of 4 Euros.
Does anyone know how I can enter symbols [Euros, pounds sterling, copyright and fractions] on these Posts?
Kim
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