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Author Topic: HMS Royal Marine  (Read 14409 times)

Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2016, 10:04:47 PM »

HMS Royal Marine.

Quick update on the wheelhouse and bridge decks:

Just completed adding the bulkhead supports using 1/16” Plastruct tees on the inside faces, tapered towards to top.  1/16” Plastruct U channels used as rails, plus some 0,5mm styrene on the outside faces of the bulkhead supports. 
Decks dry assembled for the photo below.



Next up will be working on the rear part of the main superstructure.  Looking ahead the top of the funnel is just a hole, so I will have to fabricate a funnel top, including a slightly domed grille. 

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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2016, 10:11:34 PM »

Looking good Bob. The bridge sturcture is quite large for the size of vessel, but proably much more practical then earlier ones.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2016, 05:49:11 PM »

Hi Bob


Nice work with the bridge windows- I had the same experience with the Dreadnought's too. The laser cut ones in the new M-33 and M-15 kits are a god-send! :-))
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Nick B

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2016, 06:23:47 PM »

Thank you Nick. 
Just doing the four 20mm gun tubs plus lifeboat and life-raft decks, the last of the styrene sheet parts.  Coming along well.  She does sail nicely.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2016, 06:34:21 PM »

Glad to hear Bob, I've just started a similar sized model and it's amazing what you can get into a hull that small which wasn't available not that long ago. :o
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2016, 11:48:10 AM »

HMS Royal Marine.

Another update:  Four 20mm gun tubs made up, mainly fabricated from the marked styrene supplied, but with Plastruct tees and thin sheet strip as per the bridge bulkheads. 

A good tip:  The top of a Pritt Stick makes an ideal former for making these.  Gun sub assemblies made up.  I have to say the quality of Dean’s diecast and resin fittings is such that very little dressing was required.

Next was the four sub decks for the lifeboats and life rafts from the styrene parts in the kit.





That’s all the parts from the styrene sheets.  Next will be the two tall ventilators and the funnel.  I have around 150 cast parts, resin and white metal.  I will be making up several strips of foam board 60 mm wide with 40 mm double sided tape.  Loose parts will be stuck to these for spraying with part number legend strips concealed under Postit stickers. The stickers can then be peeled off after spraying to leave legends intact.

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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2016, 08:15:02 PM »

Its coming along nicely now. Some really nice building on here.
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ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2016, 09:36:29 PM »

She's starting to look very nice Bob. The Tee pieces do make the tubs look busier. I look forward to your next installment.
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Capt Podge

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2016, 10:51:23 PM »

Loose parts will be stuck to these for spraying with part number legend strips concealed under Postit stickers. The stickers can then be peeled off after spraying to leave legends intact.

That is a very, very good tip Bob - thank you for sharing. :-))

Regards,

Ray.
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Dean's Marine

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2016, 10:23:53 AM »

HMS Royal Marine.






I am sure the 4" gun cab  is only shown this way for trial fitting ?
here is my one
just checking.
will you have it sailing for the xmas open days ??.if its to choppy we can put in on the deck of the Agincourt
 Regards
 Deans marine
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2016, 11:14:45 AM »

Having to massively improvise as the parts and pictures are way out of step.  ie:  There was no means of mounting the gun platform supplied so I had to make something up.  I had assumed the new gun hood was a later version than the instructions picture.  Had I mounted it on end on the cross frame in your last photo the breech would have been a scale ten feet off the deck, looking way off scale.  Nothing like the pictures

I have a lot of spraying to do before fitting sub-assemblies, so next weekend is far too early for sailing her, or using her as a lifeboat for HMS Agincourt.  However, I will be at the Open Day as promised.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2016, 06:40:11 PM »

I believe it is a Canadian mounting/shield, and does look a bit 'odd' compared to the usual RN pattern shield. You may notice the low barrel height that you currently have,  when you start adding the stanchions.
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2016, 08:03:55 PM »

Bob....history does confirm that with all Ships of War.......the ink was not yet dry on the official specification or plans when the Admirals :police: decided on yet another new revision to the build or design  O0

This was especially true with the armament's and associated weaponry.....

This however was in earlier years when men in blue suits with gold buttons & braid made decisions......sadly today it is those persons  <*< in pin stripe suits sitting shoreside [probably have never seen water or a warship] who make decisions based upon costs

Derek
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2016, 10:57:12 PM »

HMS Royal Marine.

OK guys, here is my quandary.  The gun body, including trunnions, was an excellent fit in the recesses for them in the resin hood as I have it.  To mount the hood on end would have needed filler to mount the barrel.   Using the cruciform base shown in the paperwork the C/L of the gun would then have been a scale nine foot above the deck.

Sorry, it just looked odd that way, especially when using 1/96 scale crew alongside it, and it is well clear of stanchions.

Below is a picture of a similar 4 inch mounting of the same era.  Mine is a compromise, but my crew can reach it.

     
           

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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

gingyer

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2016, 02:15:45 AM »

Bob,
The gunners stood on a platform begin the gun :-))
http://https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XIX_naval_gun#


If you added the platform it would then let your crew fire it....... I think.....
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gingyer

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2016, 01:50:05 PM »

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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2016, 02:19:06 PM »

Hi Gingyer.  There is no mini platform, and even with one having the breach nine feet off the deck is not a realistic option for any QF wide arc training mounting.  It needs to be operated by a team direct from the main platform it is mounted on.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

gingyer

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2016, 03:57:04 PM »

Bob,
a bit lost when you say no platform you probably need to make it, it won't be in the kit.
From the deck the breech would of been about 8-9' off the deck.
the platform is built into the shield and turns with the gun, so the ammo crew on the main deck pass the rounds to the gun crew standing on the platform.


early/ older 4" guns are shown in the picture you posted earlier these had a box like square shield around them these dated from WW1 and used on Flower class corvettes and some armed trawlers.
later 4" guns have the distinctive rounded shield (as per yours in the kit and these were fitted to the military class) these had their breech mounted near enough in mid air, the breech and associated equipment were moved higher for use in engaging Aircraft so the breech could swing lower allowing the gun to elevate.


this is a link to a drawing of one of the later marks it shows the high position of the breech.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_gun_on_Mk_XX_mounting_rear_view_diagram.jpg


this link will show you a good picture of the rear of the twin version of the gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_naval_gun#/media/File:Cruiser_Guns%27_Crews._May_1943,_on_Board_HMS_Jamaica_and_Berwick._A16318.jpg
you can see the hight off the parts a bit clearer and also give you a better idea with the gun crew in place


castle class corvettes and other ships were fitted with the same variants,
John haynes built a 1/192 version for a castle class and you can see it here
http://www.johnrhaynes.com/caistorcastle/caistor4.html#imageguide


hope this helps  :-))
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine. Funnel
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2016, 03:26:22 PM »

HMS Royal Marine.  Funnel

A bit of additional funnel detailing underway.  I could have left just a hole at the top (awkward to paint right down through) but looked into funnel tops of similar vessels of the same era.  A simple sleeve and ring with sealing cap at bottom, together with a central support strip notched for brass wire. 
My preference. I think it looks better from above than the end of a tube.



Paint Preparation

As mentioned before, I am thinking ahead for spray painting by building in sub-assemblies with individual white metal and resin parts mounted onto foam board strips with double sided tape, grouped according to colour.  Part I.D. references are marked on the foam board edge, which will be temporarily covered in Post It notes during spraying so that part references are retained for fitting.

To my mind this saves a lot of hassle as you can take a part from the tray, clean up its edges etc, stick it on the board and mark its reference at the same time.

P  (typical)

PS:  As to other gun types - only “ used on Flower class corvettes and some armed trawlers”, note this IS an armed trawler, which did not have additional platforms or mega high breeches.  A simple workaround due to parts that have evolved more than the instructions. 

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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)

ballastanksian

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2016, 07:29:04 PM »

Thanks for the tip using Postit notes a temporary masking. Of course, the adhesive is weak enough to stop them from becoming permanently stuck to computer screens or your forehead when playing that guessing game  :} That is another idea to write down.
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RAAArtyGunner

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2016, 08:58:52 PM »

Bob,
a bit lost when you say no platform you probably need to make it, it won't be in the kit.
From the deck the breech would of been about 8-9' off the deck.
the platform is built into the shield and turns with the gun, so the ammo crew on the main deck pass the rounds to the gun crew standing on the platform.


early/ older 4" guns are shown in the picture you posted earlier these had a box like square shield around them these dated from WW1 and used on Flower class corvettes and some armed trawlers.
later 4" guns have the distinctive rounded shield (as per yours in the kit and these were fitted to the military class) these had their breech mounted near enough in mid air, the breech and associated equipment were moved higher for use in engaging Aircraft so the breech could swing lower allowing the gun to elevate. Also, during firing, the breech when recoiling at high elevations, would clear the deck/platform. Hence no encumbrances at rear of the gun. Otherwise the gun was limited in the amount of elevation, (Quadrant Elevation).


this is a link to a drawing of one of the later marks it shows the high position of the breech.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_gun_on_Mk_XX_mounting_rear_view_diagram.jpg


this link will show you a good picture of the rear of the twin version of the gun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QF_4_inch_Mk_XVI_naval_gun#/media/File:Cruiser_Guns%27_Crews._May_1943,_on_Board_HMS_Jamaica_and_Berwick._A16318.jpg
you can see the hight off the parts a bit clearer and also give you a better idea with the gun crew in place


castle class corvettes and other ships were fitted with the same variants,
John haynes built a 1/192 version for a castle class and you can see it here
http://www.johnrhaynes.com/caistorcastle/caistor4.html#imageguide


hope this helps  :-))
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2016, 10:59:14 PM »

HMS Royal Marine.

I am trying to do a build log here, before we all get carried away into the practicalities of high angle antiaircraft weapons. 
Below is a photograph of HMS Sapper, sister ship to armed trawler HMS Royal Marine.


 
Note there is no ‘loading’ platform, nor is the breach many feet above the heads of any gun crew - which would have made it effectively inoperable.  For convoy and coastal duties the four inch gun was for defence against surface vessels, principally submarines. Elevation was probably in the range of -6 to +20 degrees.  My barrel height closely matches this, and is well clear of stanchions.
As you can see this is a more than practical arrangement which I believe I have closely replicated, within the limitations of parts supplied.
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine. Painting
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2016, 01:32:10 PM »

HMS Royal Marine.  Painting

Everything thoroughly cleaned before mounting.  Sub-assemblies made up to suit spraying access to all faces.  Loose items mounted on strips with part references covered for spraying.  Planning this effectively is half the battle.  Wait until nice day outside then start with good old Halfords grey Primer rattle can to effect a good bond for the final Tamiya acrylic paints.  ie: GRP/white metal/resin/styrene.



Acrylics will be sprayed in my shower-curtained spray area in the workshop as this requires spray gun and compressor.  A three quarter circle of shower rail on the ceiling and two large cheap disposable shower curtains that go over the workbench and almost down to the floor.  Face mask always used indoors.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Detail of 4 inch gun, modified to measured photographs of sister ship and similar mountings.



It now looks more like it should, IMHO, especially alongside 1/96 scale crew figures.
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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2016, 03:42:02 PM »

Begining to look the part now Bob, well done matey :-))
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Bob K

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Re: HMS Royal Marine
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2016, 03:59:15 PM »

Thanks Brian.  At this point I am trying to show how I prepare for spray painting, whilst I can still get to all the surfaces I need to cover.
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HMS Skirmisher (1905), HMS Amazon (1906), HMS K9 (1915), Type 212A (2002), HMS Polyphemus (1881), Descartes (1897), Iggle Piggle boat (CBBC), HMS Royal Marine (1943), HMS Marshall Soult, HMS Agincourt (1912)
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