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Author Topic: Needing help with identity and some advise  (Read 8055 times)

hammer

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2016, 09:43:57 am »

Where wood work etc. is taught it is taught to the girls . The boys get cooking.   {-) {-)
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2016, 10:15:00 am »

Girls swinging hammers and boys baking cakes, the world has gone mad thanks to our PC Politicians. I agree absolutely that everyone should be given equal opportunities in life but using our education system to "reverse" our gender roles is dangerous and short sighted.

Anyhoo...... before I get booted off the forum in my first week  %) I should get back to boats !

I started stripping the paint from the hull yesterday, 5 coats of various colours, each one tougher than the last. I went down the Nitromors route, giving her 2 coats and left for 40 minutes.......damn !  that paint just laughed at me ! the top coat came off ok but the second must have been developed at NASA, I'm sure it would stand up to a nuclear blast, I ended up scraping through it and applying more nitro, this went no better, the second from last coat is green "Kryptonite" or something, so today I get stuck in again. I was joking earlier about the blowtorch but .........
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roycv

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2016, 11:09:54 am »

Hi Flyte, I have just restored (like last week) a 30 inch home made clockwork boat from this period and getting the paint down to the wood took a day and I eventually resorted to my random orbital sander to finish the job.  The paint had failed unevenly but never the less the guy who made it had done well with the resources he had in the early 50's.

I find the decks a problem, not in stripping back but over the years they have absorbed character and tone so I tend to clean them up, repair and match and leave them as slightly stained but well preserved.  A bit like me!
Always nice to see a model brought back to life again.
regards Roy
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2016, 11:45:28 am »

Hi Roy and thanks, I'm going to try to keep the character of the boat as far as possible, I have given the deck a good look over and had gentle rub with steel wool, it looks as though it will come up nicely followed by a coat or two of yacht varnish. I've stripped all the brasswork off now except for the rudder flange which is screwed and glued in but its going to look good, a quick rub with steel wool and its clean but keeps its character ( I love old brass).

I've done a lot of writing slopes and boxes over the years which need a very similar approach, most are Mahogany and brass, but I wont be using shellac this time  {-) I dont want a submarine. Having said that I've also done a lot of fishing rods which have lasted over a hundred years in their original shellac.
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roycv

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2016, 12:55:04 pm »

Hi, I had a tip some years ago from a lovely man who built /restored model yachts.  He used to finish with either teak oil or good polish but put on gently with fine steel wool and polished up afterwards.  You get a nice smooth finish.
Just remembered his name, Ken Impey, we only corresponded so I never met him.
regards Roy
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warspite

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2016, 02:36:08 pm »

The only problem with the lost art of woodworking today (taught at school) is that when and if a youngster manages to find a house he can afford, he cannot tackle even the most basic diy skill, I have just built a unit that fits inside the wife side of a basic wardrobe I built over 10 years ago, I measured 3-4 times before drilling, the problem I had was relying on the wife to follow a basic instruction, hold it against the line (which she didn't) so its not as good as would have liked, in all this my eldest stood on the stairs watching, though I seriously do not believe he could construct the most basic of items even after spending two years at bury college on an engineering course.
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2016, 04:12:27 pm »

I love teak oil, I finish guitar fretboards with it and a few body's, it brings out the grain and protects the wood, I also love shellac, its not easy to work with but when you get it built up its beautiful, a deep rich shine that makes wood glow. but I think I've made my mind up now that I'll be using yacht varnish on the deck, it means I can keep the character and put on a hard wearing waterproof finish.

Hi warspite, I feel really sorry for our kids and grandkids, there's a great satisfaction in being capable with handskills that their going to miss out on, not to mention paying someone else every time you need a shelf putting up. When my Son left school I fought tooth and nail to get him an apprenticeship, he's a joiner and good at his job, not one of his friends got a trade and they move from job to job with no reason to have pride in their work.
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John W E

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2016, 04:45:31 pm »

Flyer, very sorry for side tracking your thread slightly - but - it was the memory of the animal glue; school and woodworking - and making a pencil box in woodworking class - it was that big that me mother could use it as a sewing box.   Its still around somewhere to this day :-) - we had to do dovetail joints on it - aye I can remember it vividly.   I come from a family of boat builders and my dad's comment was "what type of saw did you use to cut the dovetails out? or was it your teeth you used as they are a bit slack :-)

To get back on to track - do you think your yacht is a home made yacht?

Are there any evidence of labelling on the deck?  or, does it look like I say - a home made one?   or timber, glue and paint from Swan Hunters shipyard? and the tinsmiths making all the brass fittings?

Don't forget back in the good old days - paints had lead in it  O0  so take care.

John
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roycv

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #33 on: December 12, 2016, 04:52:41 pm »

Hi, our children do need basic skills, my son went off to University a long while ago, he is 50 now.  But I taught him how to cook 6 different cheap meals which made him very popular with young ladies as well. When he was 14 I would take him to work with me if I was working on a Saturday. 
But he grew up assisting me in general home DIY.  Later in his late teens I gave occasional lectures and he assisted.  Many young men are confident in their abilities but I made him competent as well.
I found it gave me great pleasure to see him grow up and I am off to visit him in Oz next month for me to assist him in a new model railway project.
And enjoy his cooking!
regards Roy
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2016, 06:22:08 pm »

Hi bluebird, I've got the paint stripped and all the brass work off, the hull is Mahogany, the keel is Mahogany faced ply, no sign of any maker or label but the brass parts are definitely manufactured not home made. The keel also looks to be professionally made the way the lead has been cast in, the hull I'm not sure about, it is as you said bread and butter construction, perhaps the hull was made from plans and the other components bought.

Hi Roy, I absolutely agree, you must be very proud of him as I am of my Son and Daughter. The trip to Oz sounds brilliant, I hope you bring back lots of photo's, but remember to look under the dunny seat for spiders  :o
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2016, 07:32:48 pm »

Disappointed I got nothing done today, my back is just chronic, cant sit, cant stand, cant lay down, might try hanging by my feet like a bat. Ah well, 9pm is whiskey time, not long to go  :-))
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John W E

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #36 on: December 15, 2016, 06:30:14 pm »

hi ya mate,
I have been having a bit more dig around - about the source of your yacht.  If the yacht was made in the North East - I wonder whether the plans came from the 'old' Newcastle upon Tyne Model Shop - they used to sell their own selection of plans.  Although their plans were mainly for planes but I do know they did a selection for yachts and powerboats - I know this is a bit of longshot, but, there is a lad I know worked in the shop and I am sure he is a member of Paddy Freeman's model boat Club.  So it may pay you walk along and see if he is still there - he may just be able to help you if he is still there at that Club.

John
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #37 on: December 15, 2016, 08:03:57 pm »

Thank you John  :-)) I just had a look on Google maps and its not too far from me but their site says they meet from Easter to September so it might have to wait a while.
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derekwarner

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2016, 10:26:46 pm »

Tree questions to you flyte  ok2

1. why do you need to wait until 2100 hours [9:00 PM in general public time] to start on the  :P Whiskey?
2. how do you manage typing messages here on MBM when postulating as being suspended downwards  {-) by your feet?
3. when painting whilst being suspended downwards and looking upwards like a crane [Bird specie with long slender necks]. don't the paint drips go down your nose?

Derek

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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2016, 11:17:15 pm »

Let me say a big hello to Wollongong down under something in OZ and thank you for your questions. I'll answer questions 2 and 3 first...... mate, your the victim of a huge conspiracy, their hiding the truth from you, its you lot that are upside down O0 you just dont know it. Did you really think they put velcro on your boots for fashion purposes ?

To answer question 1...... I'll start drinking at any time if your offering to buy the drinks !
 
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2016, 02:48:22 pm »

Uuuuuughh My first problem and its paint  :(( an old friend of mine came round with a tin of wood undercoat and insisted it was the bee's knee's and I had to try it. I gave some scrap wood a coat and it looked just the job, a nice thick neutral coat that would cover a lot of blemishes in the old hull. Once the hull was sanded down I applied one coat and took it back in doors to keep it warm (ish) its now been 30 hours and its just nasty, you cant rub it down, wet n dry clogs as soon as you touch it, its very very soft.  It changed colour quickly when I applied it and was touch dry in a couple of hours so I'm sure its fully dry now, its been next to a radiator all this time.

It's was made by Leyland, a good Company, and the tin looks new, maybe it was never meant to be rubbed down ! there's not much info on the tin.

I'll give it one more day then its a scrape down job, but in fairness I was only using it as a filler anyway so not that much lost, I just dont want it staying there under a top coat still soft and nasty.
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Ron Rees

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2016, 05:18:05 pm »

I just had to leap in here, having retrained to be a Woodwork/Metalwork/TD teacher after injury on duty ended my Police career in the early seventees. In the end spent 38 happy years teaching CDT up to 'A' Level and head of Technology Department. Finally specialising in teaching very difficult children...'Life Skills'


 Practical subjects, including CDT, Music, Drama, Needlework, Cookery (Home Ec)and so on have been given the chop many times as Governments and Head teachers try to make a name for themselves and save a few bob. The fact is, not every child can be a Doctor, Dentist, Architect, Politician etc and while they still try to concentrate on these subjects they keep coming back to the fact that nearly everything we humans in the world need to live and use and cook and build a house with ,have been designed, made and tested by a practical, skilled and inventive person... Usually those people have been initially taught by a woodwork or technical teacher, or is just naturally brilliant, like a lot of good model makers.


Coming back to the glues, Cascamite is and was a white powdered resin glue formulated for wood that needed to withstand being soaked most of the time. AeroLite was a two part resin glue used on later aircraft like the Hurricane and the Mosquito. Animal (or Hoof) is the broken down bones, hair etc, usually from Cows leftovers and is heated to make it soft. It is one of the oldest glues in our arsenal and, as was said, is still the very best for musical instruments, because it dries very hard as it cools but becomes quite brittle, which is good if you are a violin and need to resonate. It is not waterproof although similar versions, more refined like Pearl Glue came along in the early 1900s and was used for aircraft too. A white glue, not unlike PVA in consistency was also around being what they called Casein glue.(Made from Fish and Milk!)


The old yacht, if it is the age we think would more than likely be Aerolite or one of the very early two parters, a bit like epoxy. Remember that the early petroleum adhesives like Bostik and the like go way back as well. This was very good for Bread and Butter construction and was cheap enough for hobby-ists to buy. Products made from Tar, Pitch and Bitumen were also around (Look at an old ships caulking)


With this old hull I would do as little damage to the hull as possible. Clean away the paint and fill any cracks or splits. The old glue can stay where it is if it is sound as recoating the hull with newer finishes will give it back its waterproofing anyway.  If it is hollow it may be possible to make an access hatch in the deck to seal the inside with some form of resin SP113, Z-Poxy, GRP or similar if you feel the need to stabilise the insides.
Clearly it was built as a 'Set the rudder and go' pond yacht and if you are a perfectionist and want it like it used to be, stick with that, but if you can get inside there is room for modern R/C and a few upgrades but keep the style and the Oldy-Worldy' look and value the same.


Could be a nice project.


Lesson Over boys, tuck shops open!!!..........Ron.







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John W E

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2016, 05:39:38 pm »

Hi Flyte
Just been to Ron's Tug shop and they haven't any one penny gobstoppers, they only had 3d Jubilee orange ices

I was hoping someone would come in and advise you to paint the yacht with ZEpoxy to seal the hull before you painted it and as Ron has suggested - opening a hole up in the deck to pour some Epoxy in there to stabilise the hull. 

As far as your radio is concerned, have a look in Phill's Model Shop, North Shields and think about 2.4 sets.  They aren't that expensive.

John
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2016, 06:04:27 pm »

Sits quietly.... trying not to fidget and listens, avoids eye contact just in case questions come his way........."thank you Sir".

Hiya Ron, thank you for the glue info,  the boat itself is sound, nothing nasty anywhere, I am giving her a "sympathetic" restoration, I always try to keep the character of anything I restore (within reason).

I have restored all manner of things, according to the missus I'm a hoarder who spends more time in his shed than the house and lives in his own little museum full of junk !  HA !  she knows nothing ! (just dont tell her I said so).

I've restored dozens of fishing rods dating back to Victorian times, I've restored guitars going back to the same period, some of them very valuable, I've restored many many writing slopes and boxes going back to the 18th Century and more vintage camera's than I can remember. I've made replacement parts to a high standard for all of these and used many types of finish, shellac being my favourite. I've also made models ( I have a Boxford lathe )  but this is my first Pond Yacht so I'm very grateful for any advice  :}
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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2016, 06:16:13 pm »

Hiya John and thank you but I wouldn't dare suck gobstoppers in class  :embarrassed:

I'll look into the ZEpoxy thing, I've never used it, I was wondering about sealing the hull as there seems to be so many different approaches. I posted earlier about my undercoat issues but its not a big deal, it was only really intended to work as a filler so I'll scrape it back (it wont sand).

I actually managed to get a look inside down the mast flange hole using my little light for guitars and a mirror, it all looks "ship shape".....sorry !

I'm still deciding about the RC thing, if I went down that route it would be done with a raised hatch for the servos, I have the room to keep it on deck.

Then again I might change my mind, it's still early days.
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John W E

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2016, 06:27:53 pm »

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flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2016, 12:27:10 pm »

Well......this $%&^^%^& undercoat has been on a couple of days now and its just as bad, fully cured but still soft and crumbly, all I can do is scrape it off and start again. I was reading here where people have used clear acrylic lacquer as a sealer/base coat, I might give it a go as I have a can and a bit left over from another job. I know it grabs wood well and is obviously waterproof, it also gives a reasonably thick coat and rubs down nicely.
 
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Subculture

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2016, 03:31:35 pm »

It's one of three things

1. An old batch and gone off. Unlikely but possible.
2. You didn't cure it in a warm environment- most epoxy needs decent temperature to cure well, and it generally needs that temperature for at least 24 hours.
3. You didn't mix it accurately or well enough. I weigh mine with very accurate digital scales.

flyte

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2016, 05:10:13 pm »

Hi Subculture, this wasn't an epoxy it was an oil based undercoat, it was recommended by a friend who gave me a can. The boat had been indoors and was taken to the shed to paint, I have a decent heater in there and always warm things up before painting. I'm not sure what went wrong, it was completely dry but wouldn't flat down. It may well be a lot older than I thought, its not for sale now and I cant find any mention of it.

Anyhow it's all gone and the hull is waiting for something new.
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roycv

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Re: Needing help with identity and some advise
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2016, 05:14:06 pm »

Hi flyte, some time ago I did use some ivory coloured paint I knew to be at least 20 years old as there was no available similar colour on sale.  It never dried, I just rubbed it off cleaned it down with white spirit and chose another colour.
regards Roy
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