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Author Topic: Wasabi 900e running gear ( Fast electric )  (Read 17589 times)

Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2017, 06:10:16 PM »

No that's brilliant I will certainly be looking closely at what you be recommended I knew it had to be a light weight cloth, all advice is gratefully received from anyone with experience  :-))
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2017, 06:41:05 PM »

Just one question do you use epoxy glue to make the frame or waterproof glue ?


Grant
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2017, 06:54:39 PM »

HI martno1fan, what epoxy resin would you recommend on the site you said to get fibreglass cloth ? Cheers Grant
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martno1fan

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2017, 06:55:24 PM »

I use epoxy glue personally but the cloth needs to be done with epoxy laminating resin not to be confused .
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martno1fan

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2017, 07:04:43 PM »

I use this epoxy,you can also use it for gluing by adding the right hardner.If you email them and tell them what uses its for they will give you the correct ratios to mix it for gluing and for laminating the cloth ,theyre very helpful and are willing to talk you through it on the phone .iF you want to use glue you can use aliphatic resin,it sets pretty quick and is water proof and you can wash your hands with water always a bonus lol.
https://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/product/west-system-105-epoxy-resin

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Deluxe-Materials-Aliphatic-Resin-112g-4oz-/263086578105?hash=item3d412e99b9:g:ePkAAOSwWxNYy6kg
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2017, 08:48:15 PM »

Hi Grant,

Mart is right regarding the thickness of the glasscloth, I was erring on the safe side, not knowing what kind of ply you had bought for covering the bottom.

If you saw the pictures on my M.A.S. build, you'd have seen I used similar thin glasscloth to cover my soft and light poplar ply, works like a charm, but I must say, the softer wood underneath makes it prone to dents when you hit something.
With birch ply that won't happen so easily.

I have worked in the polyester industry for a while, making molds and products out of them, model boathulls are similar, but not the same, so while my techniques apply, Marts expertise in what to use takes precedent.
After developing an allergy for polyester, I switched to another job, and kept working at home with epoxy resin instead.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2017, 07:02:19 AM »

As for servos I require 2 is there a brand you recommend, I was looking at kyosho or savox ? Or should i get one of those servo boxes like this ebay listing 331178904325  . Grant
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2017, 02:04:37 PM »

HI Jan and Martin, would these servos be ok to use for I gather these pull 9kg /cm or is it the case the more torque the better?
Kyosho 1/8 FO-XX 4WD RS * PERFEX KS-5031-09 MW METAL GEAR STEERING SERVO

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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2017, 03:23:44 PM »

Hi Grant,

Using a metal gear servo is smart, as the forces that act on the rudder, specially when entering the water after a flip, are nothing to sneeze at.
From time to time I get myself a number of these servo's: https://www.banggood.com/4X-TowerPro-MG996R-Metal-Gear-Digital-High-Torque-Servo-55g-p-983215.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=srm-sbgn-ds-all&utm_content=all&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwevLBRCGARIsAKnAJvchI0ic9Q0i4KOR4zTEUIOUBNPCGZXHxNqoPULQJz06IktQ09FE6Q8aAvcrEALw_wcB

These are strong enough for all of my boats, I used over 20 of this servo (and it's predecessor the MG995) over the years and have had just one failure, due to water ingress.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2017, 03:46:28 PM »

10kg/cm  and over then probably get a digital metal gear, you'll be the best to know, should i get a box to hold the electric side of things in, I've seen there is a box with slots cut especially for the use on boats. ?
Grant
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2017, 04:02:54 PM »

HI Jan could you take a look at these and see if I've got it right before I purchase of HK.

Turnigy AquaStar 3974-2200KV Water Cooled Brushless Motor or

Turnigy AquaStar 4084-620KV Water Cooled Brushless Motor

Turnigy AquaStar 160A Water Cooled ESC


USB Programmer for Turnigy AquaStar Speed Controllers


Turnigy AquaStar Water Cooled ESC Program Box
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2017, 04:06:02 PM »

Hi Grant,

A radio box is for boats with an internal combustion engine, these need air and the boat can't be taped shut, so a little water will always find it's way into the hull, messing with the electronics.

A fast electric is taped shut, so it is basically watertight.
In my fast electrics I have no waterproofed ESC, servo, or receiver, the boats are watertight during the run.

A piece of kitchen towel on the deepest point in the hull absorbs the few drops that find their way inside via the stuffing tube.

With a floodchamber, you don't even have room for a radio box, as it'll upset the balance, rendering the floodchamber useless.
I added a picture of the internals of my Arowana, including the slits in the top of the floodchamber; the extension in the hull is the floodchamber top and side wall, against it you see the ESC and battery.
On the right side there's only the servo and the receiver, tucked away under the edge about where the red arrow point at,
all heavy stuff sits left of the center line, a must for a functioning floodchamber.

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2017, 04:18:04 PM »

Ahh now it all makes sense, as they say a picture speaks a thousand words. I'm looking on HK  they seem to have a lot of gear I've put a reply on before to see what you think of the selection I've made before I purchase. If you could give your thoughts about them that would be great  :D
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2017, 04:36:05 PM »

Hi Grant,

What causes you to start looking for smaller and cheaper motors?
I will certainly be going for the bigger motor and esc. 

Rule of thumb is to aim for 28000 - 32000 rpm under load

My son runs this motor in his 800mm Arowana: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-3974-2200kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html
On 4S (14,8V) that's about 28500 rpm under load, on the low end of the sweet spot.
It's 'only' 1200W, sufficient for a 4S Arowana, but on the low side for a 900mm Wasabi.

The other motor you mention is this one: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-4084-620kv-water-cooled-brushless-motor.html

In order to get the rpm required you need to run this motor on 12S (44,4V), giving you 25000 rpm under load.
I see several issues with this option:
- The motor is rated for 10S maximum, which leaves you with just 20000 rpm under load.
- With 10S or 12S on board, the boat will be quite heavy, reducing it's runtime and speed.
- With a 10-12S set-up the floodchamber is no longer an option, there's not enough room for the batteries left of the center line.

I specifically chose the motors in my first suggestion with sufficient rpm/Volt and Wattage to accommodate the size of the Wasabi with a floodchamber.

The 160A ESC doesn't get good reviews: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-aquastar-160a-water-cooled-esc.html

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2017, 04:45:49 PM »

I will have to re-look at that post again, sorry about that. With regards to the esc programmer and us thing are they necessary ?
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pompebled

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2017, 05:05:21 PM »

Hi Grant,

If you want to keep the budget within reason, go for this motor: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html

With this cooler: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html

And a Flycolor 150A ESC: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat/302315187681?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45702%26meid%3D1dc1f79d0bf6496c93af22539e28c98f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772

Running on 6S.

Without a programming card/box, you'll have to count beeps in order to be able to program the ESC, depending on the make and model this can prove to be a hair raising experience, which can take hours before you understand what's going on (been there, done that, bought the programming cards)...

Regards, Jan.
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2017, 05:23:07 PM »

HI Jan, youll have to excuse me , ive now read up on electric brushless motors ive always run petrol engines. So as it goes 4084 is diameter of motor and length- 1650kv is revolutions per bolt I didn't realise till read up that the one motor was very under powered. 

Turnigy Marine 180A BEC Waterproof Speed Controller with Water Cooling ? Any good ??

With programme card and usb thing if needed. Some of the items you've said aren't available in UK.

Grant
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2017, 05:40:29 PM »

Jan, is this motor any good. http://www.performancemodels.co.uk/product/red-leopard-lbp4074-2000kv-class-inrunner-brushless-motor/  I only say this as it's available in UK.
Grant
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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2017, 11:00:46 PM »

Hi Grant,

The consensus among boaters, is that the ss motors are better, or at least as good as the Leopard, the TP are a notch better than both.
The motor you linked to is shorter than the 4082 ones, meaning less torque, which would be compensated with a higher Kv, meaning a smaller prop compared to the lower Kv options. Running smaller props also has consequenses for the height of the propshaft exiting the transom.
2000Kv on 6S gives you crazy high rpm under load for a boat this size ( close to 40.000 rpm, that's SAW territory and hard on the drivetrain, requiring high quality (expensive) hardware. Not my favourite option).
I don't like the fact the picture shows a typical car motor (with the wiring coming out the side), reducing the length of the watercooling jacket if you also want to use a rear support ring, I prefer the wiring through the endbell.
All in all a lesser motor.

Are you saying you prefer to get everything 'locally'? Or that you can't find a supplier for the SS and TP motors in the UK?

Personally I always look for the best bargain, regardless of which part of the world it's shipped from (in the end, most of it comes from China..., most sellers of the ESC can also supply the fitting programming card).

The Turnigy Marine is the V3, which isn't viewed as being as good as the V2.
I can't speak from experience as I haven't used either of them.

Regards, Jan.
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martno1fan

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2017, 11:59:18 AM »

Hi Grant,

If you want to keep the budget within reason, go for this motor: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Motore--Halter--usw-/Brushless/TFL-40-mm/4082/BL-Motor-TFL--4082-1750KV---3-5D.html

With this cooler: https://www.tfl-hobby.de/Wasserkuehlung--Nippel/fuer-BL--Motore/ab-40-mm/Kuehlmantel-fuer-40er-Brushlessmotor--70-mm-lang--schwarz.html

And a Flycolor 150A ESC: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Flycolor-Waterproof-150A-Brushless-ESC-with-5-5V-5A-BEC-for-RC-Boat/302315187681?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D45702%26meid%3D1dc1f79d0bf6496c93af22539e28c98f%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D141944856772

Running on 6S.

Without a programming card/box, you'll have to count beeps in order to be able to program the ESC, depending on the make and model this can prove to be a hair raising experience, which can take hours before you understand what's going on (been there, done that, bought the programming cards)...

Regards, Jan.

I cant argue with this haha,perfect advice and would be my choice too,only thing id maybe do is swap that motor for the 4092 if you can get it as it has a bit more power been longer but maybe not needed  :} .Regards servos you cant beat the savox brand theyre super if you can get those a ta good price also anything over 10 kg torque wise is what you want and as Jan says metal gears .Ive also used those cheap servos Jan mentioned on my large Apache gas boats without any issues so you should be fine with those too,be aware they can make funny noises but its normal  {-) .
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martno1fan

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #45 on: July 29, 2017, 12:12:44 PM »

This motor would work perfect on 6s and its in the UK warehouse .For esc get the flycolour ones from China Jan suggested you can find them on ebay for around 32-34 delivered,cant beat that price .
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #46 on: July 29, 2017, 12:15:48 PM »

Busy cutting out all the parts changing a few bits to allow for flood chamber and allowing for float chamber. I know the flood chamber is on the left I want to make sure it is the left looking from the back of the boat.
What do you recon to this set up Turnigy Marine 180A BEC Waterproof Speed Controller with Water Cooling and a waterproof savox servo.
Looking for motors that are in stock that are a size 40mm and anything over 1750kv but below 2200kv.
I'm unsure of drive shaft size and prop size I should get, so any help there guys will be gratefully received
Grant
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Gaci4

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #47 on: July 29, 2017, 12:16:46 PM »

Our messages crossed over martin
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martno1fan

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2017, 12:19:26 PM »

Our messages crossed over martin
Sorry mate my motor choice was wrong it was the wrong kv they seem out of the ones i wanted to recommend ,yes anything in your previous statement as regards kv is about right on 6 s,the one i linked would work on 8s but not 6 .
Propshaft if your going flexshaft id go with 3/16" get the all in one type with welded on stainless shaft .Have you looked at Prestwich model boats they do those along with hardware,you can get a full setup from Dave along with turn fins etc . Props id be looking at cnc balanced props around 44-47 mm maybe Jan knows more as he runs boats of this size more than me .
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martno1fan

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Re: Wasabi 900e running equipment
« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2017, 12:49:00 PM »

Not sure if youve seen this ?.The motor hes using is the one i wanted to link but HK dont seem to have them .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulhNJEZy7Qs
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