Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length.

[Backerther]

Hi Chris,


I have seen your stunningly awesome Tiger sailing very realistic on the water with still photos.
Didn't you take a video for a good chance to sail in the Norwich pond.??
A video is, needless to say, much better to appeal a moving model like your excellent Tiger to other people.
I was surprised to know that the coupling had been broken with the slow sailing scale model.....
I wonder why it came to such accident ??


Anyhow, your Tiger looks so realistic and generated such an atmosphere as the real ship. 
I do look forward to a video from the bottom of my heart next time.!!
You had better ask your Jen to operate the camera in the special occasion.


Kiyo

[frogman3]

Hi Chris,


I have seen your stunningly awesome Tiger sailing very realistic on the water with still photos.
Didn't you take a video for a good chance to sail in the Norwich pond.??
A video is, needless to say, much better to appeal a moving model like your excellent Tiger to other people.
I was surprised to know that the coupling had been broken with the slow sailing scale model.....
I wonder why it came to such accident ??


Anyhow, your Tiger looks so realistic and generated such an atmosphere as the real ship. 
I do look forward to a video from the bottom of my heart next time.!!
You had better ask your Jen to operate the camera in the special occasion.


Kiyo

HI Kiyo many thanks for your kind words on my Tiger build an yes i was pleased at how she sailed but it only sailed for about 5 mins  before the Universal jiont failed an this was at only half throttle so im goin to if i can turn down the power on my T/X DUAL RATES to about 70% INSTEAD of a 100% an then see how she goes but i think the reason the universal jiont failed was due to the heat of the day as it was 31C an it may have been a faultly one as all the other 3 are ok an the prop shaft turns freely an we are not use to this heat as we had to go home early as to hot an a video well a freind did a video of her sailin an he says he will put it on utube but when i dont know but if i find its on i will mention it on this forum
ATB to you sir
chrisb an jen 

[Rob47]

Hi Chris
Sorry to hear another unsuccessful day, think I agree with Dave, that the prop may have fouled something but the motor just cracked on and found the weakest link, i.e. the coupling.  Again fuse blowing, I think you have a major wiring issue somewhere and don't envy you trying to sort it.  Trouble is having changed everything in one go, it will be hard to source the issue.
Having said that she does look good on the water, hopefully next trip can be measured in hours not minutes.
I don't think that the heat was the cause of the failure though.


Best to you both


bob

[Geoff]

Looking very good but surprised you are still blowing fuses. As an off the wall thought, where is the thrust going as in looking at some earlier pictures I couldn't see any external thrust collars to transmit the force to the prop shaft casing and thence to the ship structure.


If the thrust is going to the engines via the couplings this could be a possible source of your issues as this will put significant pressure on the forward engine bearings which may overheat and cause drag and increased current consumption, the same with the couplings - a significant horizontal thrust will break the couplings as they are not designed to take this.


If the thrust is being picked up by the "A" frames then this will cause some distortion and misalignment of the "A" frames and again significant drag on the shafts and high current consumption, none of which will be apparent when trying the model out of the water.


Apologies if I missed the pictures with the thrust bearings, and I'm completely wrong, but just puzzled at the apparent high current consumption. My large 78 inch battleship has four props, two engines and weights about 60 pounds and runs on 6 volts and at full speed the current consumption is in the region of 3.5 amps. I protect each engine with a 5 amp fuse and the speed controller with a 10 amp fuse.


I'm sure you will sort it out but in the meantime you should be congratulated on a very fine and unusual model.


Cheers


Geoff

[T888]

Chris,


Looking at your photo of the broken coupling, to me it looks as if the lock nut has came loose and it could have locked up on the outer shaft tubing. If this was the case this could also explain why the fuse blow.


Sorry if I’m miss reading your pic 👍

All the best to you and Jen.

[frogman3]

Hi Chris
Sorry to hear another unsuccessful day, think I agree with Dave, that the prop may have fouled something but the motor just cracked on and found the weakest link, i.e. the coupling.  Again fuse blowing, I think you have a major wiring issue somewhere and don't envy you trying to sort it.  Trouble is having changed everything in one go, it will be hard to source the issue.
Having said that she does look good on the water, hopefully next trip can be measured in hours not minutes.
I don't think that the heat was the cause of the failure though.


Best to you both


bob
[/quote


HI Bob nice to hear from you sir an today ive just started investigatein that universal jiont prob an firsly i have removed that U/J  an had a close look at it an i see that to me the U/J is faulty as one of the brass pins that goes through it has no rivet top on it just flat an can be pulled through the plastic an lookin at the other pin which did not fail this pin has rivet heads on it so the pin wont pull through an it did not so i think that was part of the problem an the other problem i see today is to do with how much currant the motor was takin an the motor shaft is very stiff to turn so more currant drain an its a lot more harder to turn than the other 3 motors so im gonna order another motor to replace this bad one so then will give it another try wish me luck all as i'll need it had more probs on this ship than all the others put togeather Aaarrrccchhhhhhh
ATB Bob we hope you are well sir an thanks for your info
chrisb

[JimG]

Just a thought about the coupling, in the dim past I had one of these open up like this. It was being used in a fast electric at the time (less wattage than the modern versions). What I did was reassemble it then wrap the stem of the coupling with thread  to stop it opening again under load. Did the job while the model was still under use.
Jim

[frogman3]

Just a thought about the coupling, in the dim past I had one of these open up like this. It was being used in a fast electric at the time (less wattage than the modern versions). What I did was reassemble it then wrap the stem of the coupling with thread  to stop it opening again under load. Did the job while the model was still under use.
Jim

HI Jim  good idea but not for me not worth the hassle as bought 2 new ones from my local model shop for a fiver so when my new motor comes then i can begin to  assemble it again for the umpteen time
cheers Jim
chrisb

[frogman3]

Chris,


Looking at your photo of the broken coupling, to me it looks as if the lock nut has came loose and it could have locked up on the outer shaft tubing. If this was the case this could also explain why the fuse blow.


Sorry if I’m miss reading your pic 👍

All the best to you and Jen.

HI Dave sorry i missed your post an yes you could be right on that lock nut as yes it had come undone but the shaft turned freely when i treid it with my fingers an cheers from jen an i
chris jen

[littoralcombat]

Sorry to read of your new issues Chris. But on the plus side, Tiger ĺooks absolutely stunning on the water.
Keep chipping away at the problems Mate.
Nige

[Akira]

Chris, Tiger looks wicked! . Sorry to hear about the u-joint. I have been using similar u-joints on all of my 1/4 scale models and have not, yet, had an issue with one. That said, the torque specs for these units are not that impressive. I carefully avoid shock loading them, as much as possible,  when running them. usually when they fail, the metal hub spins in the plastic part. I have taken these units apart to make up imperial/metric ended units, without any issues.I hope tht you find your cause.Stay out of the heat, it make one drink too much ale.

[frogman3]

Sorry to read of your new issues Chris. But on the plus side, Tiger ĺooks absolutely stunning on the water.
Keep chipping away at the problems Mate.
Nige

HI Nige yes new probs but yes im chipping away at them as bought a new U/J but have found that the toruge that goes through that prop shaft was massive an i think it has bent the motor armiture an that is 5mm steel rod as now the motor has gone right stiff an treid it on a 12v batt an it runs but how stiff it is now i think it will draw more amps than the other motors so im takin it out an fittin in a new motor when it comes till then Tiger is u/s in the dockyard
chrisb

[Akira]

Chris, I would be VERY surprised if you managed to bend the motor shaft. Being supported by two bushings or bearings, it would be doubtful. That said, I bought a series of motors fro Action and one of them was bound up. I found that the armature shaft had slid in the bearings, maybe it was dropped, and the commutator was shoved into the brushes. A light tap with a hammer moved the shaft enough and it ran free. It is possible, especially if you have not fitted a thrust bearing, that the motor shaft has done the same thing.Try removing the motor and tapping, gently,  the commutator end of the shaft. If it works then you have found your issue. Also, if it works, then you need to install thrust bearings, which I would suggest to be between the shaft tube and the A frame on the outer shafts, and the prop and the tube on the inner shafts. You might be advised to address all of your shafts and motors this way to eliminate end thrust upon the motor shafts. An added advantage is that this will also eliminate end thrust upon your u-Joints, which are not designed to carry any anyhow.
Good luckJonathan

[frogman3]

Chris, Tiger looks wicked! . Sorry to hear about the u-joint. I have been using similar u-joints on all of my 1/4 scale models and have not, yet, had an issue with one. That said, the torque specs for these units are not that impressive. I carefully avoid shock loading them, as much as possible,  when running them. usually when they fail, the metal hub spins in the plastic part. I have taken these units apart to make up imperial/metric ended units, without any issues.I hope tht you find your cause.Stay out of the heat, it make one drink too much ale.

IM TEETOTAL LOL an glad you like the pics of her sailin an yes i was pleaded for 5 mins till it happend ive had more probs on this ship than the other big 7 ship Aaarrrrgghhhhh
chrisb

[frogman3]

Chris, I would be VERY surprised if you managed to bend the motor shaft. Being supported by two bushings or bearings, it would be doubtful. That said, I bought a series of motors fro Action and one of them was bound up. I found that the armature shaft had slid in the bearings, maybe it was dropped, and the commutator was shoved into the brushes. A light tap with a hammer moved the shaft enough and it ran free. It is possible, especially if you have not fitted a thrust bearing, that the motor shaft has done the same thing.Try removing the motor and tapping, gently,  the commutator end of the shaft. If it works then you have found your issue. Also, if it works, then you need to install thrust bearings, which I would suggest to be between the shaft tube and the A frame on the outer shafts, and the prop and the tube on the inner shafts. You might be advised to address all of your shafts and motors this way to eliminate end thrust upon the motor shafts. An added advantage is that this will also eliminate end thrust upon your u-Joints, which are not designed to carry any anyhow.
Good luckJonathan

HI Johnathan yes will give it a try but cant fit them thrust berins on the prop shaft between them aframes as i cant get the shafts out as they have seiced tight when i was F/G RESIN in them as should have fitted talcom poweder to the resin to make it thick but forgot so it has sealed the shafts in their utter tubes hope you understand what i mean an yes you are proberly right on that motor shaft but got a new motor comin so will wait till it here
ATB SIR
CHRISB

[Geoff]

To clarify the thrust bearings slide over the solid rotating prop shaft and typically use a grub screw to lock them the the shaft. They are only a cone shaped piece of brass with a brass washers at the end such the thrust of the rotating shaft passes to the fixed outer casing so no need to de-resin anything. This will transfer the load/thrust to the outer casing and hence to the ships hull. You will need a similar arrangement on the inside to take the thrust when going astern but a simple collet will suffice or a couple of extra lock nuts. Its also important to have about 1mm clearance or float each way so the shaft can find its natural position.


Best


Geoff

[Rob47]

Chris
I am confused about your reply about the thrust bearing, why would you take the tube out, bearings simply fit over the  shaft and are secured y grub screw, easy job to do. or have I misread it?


Regards


Bob

[frogman3]

To clarify the thrust bearings slide over the solid rotating prop shaft and typically use a grub screw to lock them the the shaft. They are only a cone shaped piece of brass with a brass washers at the end such the thrust of the rotating shaft passes to the fixed outer casing so no need to de-resin anything. This will transfer the load/thrust to the outer casing and hence to the ships hull. You will need a similar arrangement on the inside to take the thrust when going astern but a simple collet will suffice or a couple of extra lock nuts. Its also important to have about 1mm clearance or float each way so the shaft can find its natural position.


Best


Geoff

HI Geoff the thrust bearing fit up the prop shaft dont they?
but my prop shafts are a full lenght tube so no can do an to add to your answer Bob an if you still dont see what i mean i will fit on a link pic ?
chris

[Akira]

Going back and looking at your photo of your motors, It certainly appear the the fan inside the starboard motor is pushed back relative to the port motor.I think I understand about your shafts. One possible way to deal with the issue is to build a thrust block, between the stuffing tube and the u-joint inside. You could then use a simple caged bearing the the shaft nut would bear against. Room does appear to be getting tight in there...

[derekwarner]

Akira is certainly correct with the motor internal fan positioning, however from this, it also appears the complete armature shaft has been forced backwards out of the motor by ~~2 mm?

Many of these general series of motors have a nylon spacer & two stainless shim washers [one at either end of the motor shaft], collectively these 3 components take up any torque related longitudinal movement/backlash between the stator & the rotor

The rotor carbon brush segments are now also out of the original alignment by the same ~~2 mm...........   

From this occurring, it is possible that the nylon spacer has melted during the episode where the shaft coupling was destroyed

This motor may rotate under power, however it will not mirror the output or performance of the opposite motor

If the motor endcap is fusion, or spot welded to the stator body shell, then it could be considered as not suitable for reinstallation in Tiger [C20]


Derek   

[frogman3]

HI Akria an Derek to keep this simple yes im doin away with that motor an have a new one on the way so should when i fit this new motor TIGER should be ok for another sortie an to cut the power down a bit im goin to reduse the power to these motors by reducein the daul rates in the T/X down to about 70%  an if i can see if i can fit in my T/X a rachtit on the throttle lever so i can keep TIGER at a steady speed an not flank speed so as not to blow them 40 amp fuses an hope this idea will work but thank you both for you ideas an info
cheers both an thank you for stoppin to talk much apperciated
ATB
chrisb   ps an ive fitted in on them all prop shafts near the universal jionts a mountin tube to hold the prop shaft strurdy but the force was massive when this U/J broke the mounting was broken out from the hull bottom so that regluded so see how she goes

[T888]

Chris,


Not to teach you to suck eggs, but once you have installed the new motor and UJ I would put a bit of light oil on the motor bearings and run the motor in for half and hour and keep an eye on motors and shaft temps. All the best let’s hope this is hopefully your major issue with the drive system. 

[Rob47]

HI Geoff the thrust bearing fit up the prop shaft dont they?
but my prop shafts are a full lenght tube so no can do an to add to your answer Bob an if you still dont see what i mean i will fit on a link pic ?
chris

Chris but your prop shafts are not full length as they run into A frames so its a case of pulling the rotating shaft back a touch slide the bearing on and push it so its close to the tube and job done


Bob

[frogman3]

Chris but your prop shafts are not full length as they run into A frames so its a case of pulling the rotating shaft back a touch slide the bearing on and push it so its close to the tube and job done


Bob

HI Bob if you look at the prop tube its that a prop tube with the prop shaft inside so no way can an they are full are full lenth stainless steel tubes
chrisb
https://ibb.co/QKyBGbX

[Rob47]

HI Bob if you look at the prop tube its that a prop tube with the prop shaft inside so no way can an they are full are full length stainless steel tubes
chrisb
https://ibb.co/QKyBGbX

Chris hate to disagree with you but the prop tube is not full length.  Remove propeller, disconnect shaft, slide it clear of A frame put thrust bearing over shaft and reassemble making sure the bearing is no to tight against end of tube, same internally. if you like I will take a couple of pics to show it.


Bob