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Author Topic: Vice  (Read 1924 times)

lankyandy

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Vice
« on: August 28, 2019, 11:28:44 PM »

ant advice on a vice for general work. I have looked at the proxxon one and a screwfix one.
https://www.axminster.co.uk/proxxon-fmz-precision-vice-702052
https://www.screwfix.com/p/gr65-portable-vice-2-60mm/620fg


Opinions appreciated in what I should be looking for or recommendations
Thanks
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david48

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Re: Vice
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2019, 12:33:40 AM »


Go for the Proxon , it is the best made of the two ,the  jaws look  better finished of,  to me it looks a more engineered manufacturer.
David
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tigertiger

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Re: Vice
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2019, 02:44:35 AM »

The Proxxon is the better of these two. It has soft jaws, which the other does not appear to have. However it is almost twice the price.
There are other vices that are the same design out there.


I have the Silverline, which I got from Stermat, and it does me, although I am not a heavy user.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-VC17-Pivoting-Multi-Angle-Capacity/dp/B000LFTOHY/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=portable+vice&qid=1567042540&s=gateway&sr=8-8


This Stanley looks a lot more solid, and the jaws open a little bit wider to 76mm.
[size=78%]https://www.amazon.co.uk/STANLEY-MAXSTEEL-Multi-Angle-Vice/dp/B001HBS0I0/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=portable+vice&qid=1567042405&s=gateway&sr=8-5[/size]


Things to look for, the jaws should be soft. I am not sure that the GR65 has soft jaws.
Also consider that small pieces, especially wood and brass rod/sheet, will not have large forces exerted on them. Personally I think that this is one tool where you could save a bit of money for another tool or materials, if cost is a consideration.
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derekwarner

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Re: Vice
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2019, 05:52:52 AM »

From a simple engineering point, I do not quite understand the benefit of a small workshop vice with rubber or plastic  ...soft jaws  >>:-( 


Are vices not to hold materials rigidly?.......

As an alternate to maintaining small tube diameters without squashing during solder processes is to drill holes into the closed jaws so as to provide accurate support ....during any tube work


This inexpensive 3" bench vice has been drilled for both 1/8" and 5/32" OD tubes and so the jaws are not affected by the heat from a small gas torch...the splattering of soldering flux on the metal vice jaws/body is cosmetic only


Sheet plastic inserts can be used if a machined finished surface needs protection when clamped in the vice


I also use a small 2", aluminium bodied & soft jawed vice for smaller work, Pin Vices can also be a tremendous aid when constructing small diameter tube work


Derek
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tigertiger

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Re: Vice
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2019, 06:41:02 AM »

I can only talk about my experience working with wood and some plastics.
It is not necessary, and some times not possible, for things to be tightened 'rigid'.
Wood and some plastics are soft materials that mark easily. Small wooden pieces can get crushed, perhaps where rubber jaws are more useful.


I strongly agree that pin vices and other handheld clamps are indeed very useful for working on small parts. I have used them for shaping and drilling hardwood bowsies and blocks for rigging.

One thing I have learned, in my limited experience, is that if manufacturers make things a certain way (e.g. soft jaws) there is usually a good reason for it.
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john44

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Re: Vice
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2019, 10:02:04 AM »

Has the vice got to be the clamp on type. Those shown are for light use only.
If you can go for a 4" fixed engineering type. Swivel lock base.
You can make your own removable soft jaws
I have used mine for 30 years and would not be without that type of vice


John
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grendel

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Re: Vice
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2019, 10:45:19 AM »

lidls generally at some point do a selection of vices, I have several, they are generally clamp on with swivel base types, mind you I have all sorts of other vices, ranging from small 1" jaw ones right up to 2 or 3 large engineering vices in the 6-8" range, for model making I generally use a pair of 2" swivel base vices, which between them can firmly hold a hull by the keel.
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grendel

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Re: Vice
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2019, 10:46:14 AM »

ps I generally fold some sheet brass or aluminium to make jaw protectors for soft / markable materials
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DaveM

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Re: Vice
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2019, 10:50:12 AM »

I feel I should point iout that the Stanley Maxsteel vice has removable rubber jaws. These come off in a jiffy if required. There's also a couple of vee grooves (horizontal and vertical) in the metal jaws to hold wire, tube etc. When it was new the vice needed a little working and some light oil to free up the movement, but I can recommend it from personal experience. For really heavy-duty metal work there is no substitute for a bench-mounted vice with hardened steel jaws.

DaveM
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mrlownotes

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Re: Vice
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2019, 11:07:00 AM »

I've used the proxxon swivelley vice for a couple of years now.It has become my go-to vice, albeit for multiple lightweight tasks, soldering, sawing, filing. The recent use was holding 4mm stainless propshafts firmly in the rubber jaws to avoid any damage whilst being shortened.The swivel ball enables holding small stuff at any angle.The rubber jaws are quickly removed, if necessary. There is a horizontal channel cut inside the jaws to hold rod/tube etc.

However, there is one drawback. For other than very lightweight use I need to use an extension on the ball/socket screwbar to tighten it enough to ensure it holds firm. The ball/socket will move under heavy loading, e.g. hack saw or heavy filing.
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't be without it now, especially for holding connectors whilst soldering and tubes/rods whilst cutting.
As for heavy work it wouldn't be suitable at all.
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lankyandy

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Re: Vice
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2019, 11:26:37 AM »

So itís seems the proxxon and a good old bench mounted lump of a vice are needed. Thanks for the help everyone.
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tigertiger

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Re: Vice
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2019, 11:46:56 AM »

Variation on the theme of the bench mounted lump.
Mount it to a board (bolted from the back), then you can clamp it to the bench when you want it, and put it away when you don't. That way you have a clear run of the bench.
This 4 1/2" Stanley will do a lot, but you can go bigger. NB, this one has an anvil section at the back which has come in handy a couple of times. It also has a swivel mount, which also means it can fit inside the outline of the base board for storage, and it has pipe jaws below the main jaws.
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lankyandy

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Re: Vice
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2019, 12:05:01 PM »

Thatís a great idea. As you say gives a clear bench when needed. I have my job for this evening mounting my previous vice on that. Thank you
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tigertiger

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Re: Vice
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2019, 12:18:44 PM »

Glad to be of help  :-))  If you don't have a board thick enough to countersink the head of the bolt on the underside, glue 2 layers of 3/4" plywood together.
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grendel

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Re: Vice
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2019, 12:20:12 PM »

you might want to make sure that at least one way round the vice fixed jaw lines up with the edge of the block, that way you can hold longer pieces in vertically, past the edge of the bench.
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tigertiger

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Re: Vice
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2019, 12:21:18 PM »

Good thinking Grendel  :-))
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grendel

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Re: Vice
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2019, 12:33:10 PM »

when I mount any vice I always try and line the jaw up with the edge of the bench, thus on my workbench I can fit things between one or move cvices, sometimes holding one end in one vice and the other in for example the woodwork vice.
currently I have more vices than I have bench to mount them on, one of my 3 large engineers vices is mounted on the metal clad section of bench (for welding etc) one is stored under the pillar drill table and the third is sitting on the floor. my workshop is in half of my conservatory, and I am hoping to clear space in the other half to expand my work benches
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tigertiger

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Re: Vice
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2019, 12:44:22 PM »

Like my granny used to say, 'We all have our vices. Some more than others'.  :-X
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barriew

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Re: Vice
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2019, 01:38:53 PM »

However, there is one drawback. For other than very lightweight use I need to use an extension on the ball/socket screwbar to tighten it enough to ensure it holds firm. The ball/socket will move under heavy loading, e.g. hack saw or heavy filing.


Have to agree - I thought it was me not eating enough Weetabix {-) %% {-) %%


Barrie
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lankyandy

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Re: Vice
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2019, 02:02:23 PM »

Yes I realised with the block to mount at the edge for the longer jobs but thanks for the reminder. Itís the kind of thing you easily forget when I get home tonight and rush the job!!
Thanks again
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tizdaz

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Re: Vice
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2019, 11:05:11 PM »

From a simple engineering point, I do not quite understand the benefit of a small workshop vice with rubber or plastic  ...soft jaws  >>:-( 

Because some materials that you want to clamp have a "soft" texture, the clamp jaws on most vices have a serrated jaw type so would mark the material being clamped, this is where hard rubber covers for the jaws come in handy ;)

warspite

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Re: Vice
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2019, 12:00:32 PM »

OOoo a subject I have recently been thinking about, the first vice I have is an old one which allows the jaws to be rotated along the axis, it used to be a suction cup for mounting on a surface but thats failed over time, its light enough to hold the material whilst you handle the vice against your body and file or trim the piece if need be, and solid enough on the bench to clamp something, when I get the chance I will put a photo up.


The second is similar to those at the start of this thread (the first one), in fact most of these are the same vice just re-branded / painted.


Here the question - most of the vices on offer nowadays appear to be the same manufacturer, just re-branded for different companies, so whose brand would you recommend for a sturdy 6" vice, that does not necessarily have to have a swivel base (where most appear to be the re-branded type), stanley's quality seems to have diminished over the years, and the most desired feature I have is that the mechanism is reliable and sturdy enough. The removing the vice idea is a great idea, but having it pinned down as well rather than just clamped would be a good idea, so holes in the deck that match the board with removable bolts that dont have to be tight, using the bolts to prevent the vice from spinning.

I had the idea, taken from an engineering college that my son attended to have a cut out in the deck and have the vice be pivoted to flip under the deck like a singer sewing machine desk from times of old - except the college had pc's doing it in the classroom.
[size=78%] [/size]
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grendel

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Re: Vice
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2019, 01:36:14 PM »

at school our drawing boards in technical drawing were mounted like this, so that the room could be turned back into a standard classroom with flat desks if needed.
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tigertiger

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Re: Vice
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2019, 04:21:16 PM »



I had the idea, taken from an engineering college that my son attended to have a cut out in the deck and have the vice be pivoted to flip under the deck like a singer sewing machine desk from times of old - except the college had pc's doing it in the classroom.

   




I would be worried that the pivot pin or anti-flip mechanism would not be strong enough, if you are going to use more force than clamps could hold. I have seen flip tables used for machine tools, but then the force is not between the machine and the base.

If you do think you will have a lot of turning forces, an alternative would be to drill thorough the bench and mount 'T' nuts on the underside. Have thick mounting boards (for your tools) with corresponding holes cut in them so that this/these board(s) can be bolted directly to the bench using the 'T' nuts.
There is a video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv198iunlLg
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RST

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Re: Vice
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2019, 04:33:28 PM »

Surely the whole point of a vice is that it's firmly fixed? Using cramps to hold a vice down seems a little counter intuitive. But if it works for you. If you can position it where you can get underside I'd personally just bolt it with wing nuts.  Seems as much hassle. I'd be worried about T nuts working loose. But maybe not. 99 ways to skin a cat as they say. And yes a set of soft covers for the jaws is entirely sensible for softer materials. Be it rubber, or you can use wood or cut from uPVC or nylon like chopping boards if you can fix it ok. If you're cutting chunky ferrous metal stock you would remove them.
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