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Author Topic: HMS Prince of Wales  (Read 6489 times)

Colin Bishop

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HMS Prince of Wales
« on: November 12, 2019, 01:36:36 pm »

I have seen a report which suggests that entry of PoW to Portsmouth may be as early as this Friday lunchtime 15th November.

Colin
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2019, 02:43:45 pm »

Friday or Saturday is what I have heard.

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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2019, 07:22:59 pm »

13:25 at the Round Tower on Friday is the latest. Just on the spring tide. The usual weather permitting etc..
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2019, 07:49:40 pm »

Thanks for that. I will monitor QHM tomorrow and hope to get down.

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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2019, 11:29:26 am »

Not mentioned on QHM Friday list of shipping movements.

Colin
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2019, 07:42:17 pm »

Weather doesn't look like a factor for either tomorrow or Saturday. Local radio is still saying Friday or Saturday, and PoW is currently pootling about in the channel south of the Isle of Wight, so anyones guess really!

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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2019, 07:48:39 pm »

QHM Friday still doesn't mention her. Another source I have is saying Saturday. If so I assume sometime after 2pm.

As you say, the ship has more or less arrived offshore. Was off Dartmouth yesterday apparently.

Colin
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2019, 08:14:27 pm »

There is a Temporary No Fly notice for drones just gone up from 11:35am till 3:05pm on Saturday. Looks like that's your day!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2019, 11:40:47 am »

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Baldrick

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 12:01:56 pm »




  Must remember to tune into Warriorcam.
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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 01:28:43 pm »

when it does start it's journey into portsmouth you can watch it on this live webcam.   at the moment according to a marine traffic site it's sitting stationary just off the east coast of the  i of w, the blue blob.


https://isleofwightwebcams.co.uk/solent-webcam/





https://www.vesselfinder.com/
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2019, 07:28:31 pm »

I went down to Portsmouth today and it was well worth it to see the PoW come in, a very impressive sight.

Just as the ship was due to pass through the harbour entrance a gentleman with a power boat decided that it was a nice afternoon for a trip out and headed for the open sea despite all the security boats with flashing blue lights in the immediate vicinity. Immediately the MoD Poluice boat put on the 'blues and twos' and told him in no uncertain terms to get lost.

Colin
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RST

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2019, 08:41:13 pm »

Your man Pete on MB forum might be interested in the pics of the pilot 40's (2 of them?). I have a hull for this pending starting a build at some point. Was interested to see them out there in real life.




....An impressive vessel! The beam always takes me aback. What a shame we don't build "pretty" ships any more though.




Thanks for sharing the photos.




Rich
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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2019, 07:50:04 am »

We had taped the last of the 3 parts of the lizzy one, you would have thought the designers would have incorporated a chaplaincy and even a spare room for the band that the ships take to sea for diplomatic events, during conflicts, these rooms could double up as either stores or additional medical recovery rooms. rather than a room in an obscure location or the 'Toilet paper store'.  {:-{ 
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BrianB6

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2019, 09:55:33 am »

....An impressive vessel! The beam always takes me aback. What a shame we don't build "pretty" ships any more though
Rich
Maybe they can finish the bow.  Or did they leave it behind?
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2019, 10:08:31 am »

Despite being a lot smaller in displacement than the US carriers the QE class flight deck area is only marginally smaller, 4 acres against 4.5 acres.

Colin
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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2019, 10:14:50 am »

Back on the Lizzie again , watching last weeks episode of the F35 attempting the worlds first rolling landings. I was surprised as how much it was a pure pilot seat of the pants manoeuvre this is. The previous landings involving hover and controlled crash onto the deck @ 3ft/sec has previously seemed a bit primitive but the rolling landing is something else. The pilot has to approach at a precise speed, angle of descent, distance from stern and alignment in order to get his £100 million kit onto the deck( not forgetting to level out at very last moment). It took our best test pilots several attempts and fly overs to get it down. I would have thought the approach system would have given a pilot a radio or IR beam to lock onto for landing.
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dodes

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2019, 08:36:42 pm »

Colin, their decks may be marginally smaller, but is their hitting power only marginally smaller, as yet have not heard of their future aircraft numbers etc. Does anyone know them, I believe there is only about 55 F35B's acquired and some of them could be going to the RAF.
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raflaunches

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2019, 09:15:50 pm »

Hi David


There are currently 135 F-35B aircraft being purchased and being used in the same manner as Joint Force Harrier was. At the moment there are three squadrons (617, 207, and 809NAS) in operation with 17 Sqn in the USA collecting the aircraft as they are built and delivering them to the Marham based squadrons.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2019, 09:19:58 pm »

Fair point Dodes but the point I was suggesting is that our carriers are possibly better value for money than their US counterparts. The design of the existing Nimitz carriers goes back decades and they are incredibly manpower intensive. Their upgraded successors in the Ford class are encountering huge cost overruns, technical problems and an inability to get the lead ship operational which is now years behind schedule.

By comparison, our two QEs, although costing more than planned (partly due to a deliberate extended building period) seem to be getting through their trials relatively successfully. PoW was not originally due into Portsmouth until next month but initial trials were completed ahead of schedule.

Obviously a 65,000 ton carrier isn't going to have the same potential striking capability of a 100,000 ton one and tha actual strike capability will be determined by budgetary considerations (the price of the F35) rather than the characteristics of the carriers themselves.

I suspect that in years to come, the RN and the country will appeciate the versatility of having two big flat decks capable of multiple roles just as the much more cramped Invincible 'through deck cruisers' performed well in excess of their originally envisaged roles over their careers.

The bane of the RN has always been ships built down to a price so that they rapidly become obsolete and incapable of upgrading, the batch 1 Type 42s are a classic example. Despite their current engineering problems, which can be overcome, the type 45 destroyers offer the space to give them long service lives. Much cheaper than having to build replacements after 15 years or so. I have read reports that the type 45 issues were identified at the design stage but were ignored due to the short term requirement to save money. Nothing new there.

Colin
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roycv

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2019, 02:54:53 am »

Hi sorry to show my ignorance here, but are both carriers identical?

 When I watch the videos etc of the US carriers in action so much is devoted to the launch system with many sailors on deck.  Without a catapult the deck should be clear except for safety personnel. 

I take the point about the rolling landing, it would seem an avoidable risk, but it suggests that there are arrester cables on the deck?  But perhaps for other a/c?  Do the UK carriers have air control a/c?  Or is this type of a/c no longer needed?

If there is an emergency it would seem that a whole group of aircraft could take to the sky at the same time rather than two at a time as per US carriers. 
With the speeds of the US a/c the first and last a/c taking off would be some distance apart and a renezvous will take extra time when going on a mission.

Vertical t/o has all the a/c together so might well be more efficient?

regards
 Roy
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KitS

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2019, 07:53:04 am »


Vertical take-offs aren't 'part of the plan' for the F-35s. (I refuse to call them 'Lightnings', real Lightnings have two engines, one above the other....)


The normal shipboard routine is a rolling take-off up the ski-jump with the lift fan running and the exhaust nozzle deflected at around 45 degrees. That's a lot more fuel efficient than a vertical take-off and it increases the strike range and the possible weapons load, which is why the ski-jump was invented for the Sea Harrier in the first place.
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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2019, 08:15:25 am »

Vertical take-offs aren't 'part of the plan' for the F-35s. (I refuse to call them 'Lightnings', real Lightnings have two engines)


Glad I’m not only one who does the same- proper Lightning’s are capable of Mach 2+ and look demonic in bare metal schemes!
I call the F35 ‘JSFs’ which is certainly dates me in the RAF. I called Tornado a Tonka, Typhoon a Typhoon (older generations call them Eurofighters, even older call them EFAs) but I’m of that generation who will always know the F35 as the JSF!
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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2019, 10:50:04 am »

I find it strange that as a supposedly Vstol aircraft that it has to approach at a steep angle and at a precise speed to do a rolling landing, the old harrier could pull up along side and slide in, can the JSF not do the same thing, even with a full bomb load still on board - the whole point of the maneuver is to land saving the weapons on board rather than dumping them prior.


I thought the aircraft is controllable why is it not able to descend to the deck in more a controlled manner, its got to be safer than coming in a greater angle than usual, granted the fuel use may be reason why, but if test pilots found it hard, then the less experienced pilots following on behind are going to find it very difficult until they gain the experience.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Prince of Wales
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2019, 11:19:42 am »

I think it's all about landing with unexpended munitions, there isn't enough power for a safe vertical landing so some forward motion is needed to generate additional lift.
The tests are there to establish a safe envelope for pilots to use. Once that is done then the operational pilots should be able to work within it. But somebody has to be first!

Colin
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