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Author Topic: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices  (Read 1911 times)

derekwarner

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2020, 07:29:41 AM »

Well just thinking  :o 


'If Fuel Duty in the UK is included in the price you pay for petrol, diesel and other fuels used in vehicles or for heating. You also pay standard rate VAT at 20% on most fuel, or the reduced rate of 5% on domestic heating fuel'

So my question is if heating diesel has 15% less Fuel Duty [VAT], what is there to stop motorists filling their diesel vehicles from their own home heating oil tank?........then getting the heating oil tank refilled with diesel that carries 15% less duty [VAT]?

This is probably a good question for DaveM, as I think he spent a lifetime extracting <*< the last Penny from poor people...or something like that {-)


Derek

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Derek Warner

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warspite

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2020, 07:45:55 AM »

Home heating fuel is I believe red desiel and is supplied with a red dye, if you are found with this in your car or truck fuel tank you are hit with a very hefty fine as it's illegal to use it in vehicles other than those used for agriculture or construction i.e. off road vehicles.
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DaveM

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2020, 08:30:14 AM »

This is probably a good question for DaveM, as I think he spent a lifetime extracting   the last Penny from poor people...or something like that {-)

If you don't like the models I've designed or the electronic gizmos I've made, Derek,  then there's nothing to say you have to buy them.  8)

As far as reducing the duty on road fuel goes, Brian, dream on. HMG will need every penny it can get after this debacle. As we know from recent history, this will undoubtedy come in the main from poor folk, as the rules say that only the rich are allowed to get richer.  <:(
DM
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aeronut

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2020, 09:39:15 AM »

Red diesel/gas oil  is different to home heating oil, which is normally kerosene of some type.  A car will run on red diesel/gas oil, just don't try running it on kerosene!  All my heating oil kerosene deliveries have been clear and not red dyed.
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derekwarner

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM »

No..no...please do not misunderstand me Dave.........I am the proud owner of many ACTion electronics ...all excellent...good value for $ and totally fit for purpose....on this MBM and other Forums I have recommended ACTion gizmos in glowing comment


I was hinting at your previous life as some sort of TAXman >>:-( for Her Majesties Treasures ..[or something]

So...... now that there is no need to pay for the rent, lodging & security for Harry & Megan........should that not save a few bob? :P


Derek


PS


1. does the red dye in heating oil diesel emit some sort of fluorescent exhaust to alert the  :police:  that the vehicle driven has contravened the rules?
2. how is this monitored/policed?
3. do you hear of many guilty drivers?........what is the punishment? ....beheading in the Tower of London? [or being deported to OZ  {-) ]
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Derek Warner

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BrianB6

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2020, 09:57:23 AM »

Better not let any of our pollies read this.   Our excise is 42 cents per litre or about 21p.  :embarrassed:
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raflaunches

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2020, 10:21:46 AM »

Derek


The main way to check for red diesel is usually tank dipping, on RAF flying stations we are checked once in a while if you drive an old diesel car for AVTUR (or jet fuel) as these cars can run on it if mixed with normal diesel. The engine runs a little hotter but if you tried it with a modern diesel car it would burn out the injectors hence the checkers will only dip tanks on pre 2006 diesel cars! Surprising how many are still on the road in the UK and used by military personnel!
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KitS

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2020, 10:39:22 AM »




   Someone should start a petition for the UK government to reduce the excise duty




And a lot of good that would do. NOT.


We've been saying the Government has been overtaxing the driver for decades, but we're a cash cow as far as they're concerned.
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DaveM

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2020, 10:47:40 AM »

I found this article, although I have great difficulty believing that they have 49 RFTU's, unless 40+ of them operate inside the M25.  https://www.twinfm.com/article/fuel-testing-to-catch-the-fraudsters
Derek - when you get the chance, Google the meaning of "irony".   :kiss:
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2020, 09:03:35 PM »

A thing I was told about the red dye is that once in the tank, traces of the red hang around for ages, and testable traces remain after several refills. 
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justboatonic

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2020, 11:16:29 PM »

The UK Government announced plans in Sunak's budget to remove the lower taxation element of red diesel. This is, in part, to combat the sales of red diesel to non agricultural vehicle users and loss of money to the Exchequer.
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cdnfurball

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2020, 12:49:06 AM »

So let me get this correct....    Red dye for heating oil.....   What colour is it the automotive diesel ?      Over here, some folks are using restaurant waste deep fry oil..    I'm told that a few thousand dollars ( or less ) they can set up a small  processs system and use it for their cars or trucks in warmer weather.  The only thing is, your car smells like an order of fish and chips when it's running.....
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RST

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2020, 02:41:52 AM »

So let me get this correct....    Red dye for heating oil.....   What colour is it the automotive diesel ?      Over here, some folks are using restaurant waste deep fry oil..    I'm told that a few thousand dollars ( or less ) they can set up a small  processs system and use it for their cars or trucks in warmer weather.  The only thing is, your car smells like an order of fish and chips when it's running.....
...go for it!  Just make sure your car is faster than the CRA cars are I guess.  In most countries you can use non-taxable fuel, or fuel components -up to a point.  But the whole subject of fuel duty is entirely mixed with politics and conspiracy theories and in my opinion should not be discussed on a modelling forum (much as I normally like free speech!!!!!!).
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BrianB6

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2020, 03:29:54 AM »

What happened to the Rolls Royce engine that would run on any oil.  Including butter?
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NickelBelter

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2020, 03:53:28 AM »

So let me get this correct....    Red dye for heating oil.....   What colour is it the automotive diesel ?      Over here, some folks are using restaurant waste deep fry oil..    I'm told that a few thousand dollars ( or less ) they can set up a small  processs system and use it for their cars or trucks in warmer weather.  The only thing is, your car smells like an order of fish and chips when it's running.....

Probably plain like ours, as we also have the red stuff for heating and blue stuff for ag/industry (although I don't know how much it gets used in industry as they often have to fuel up a variety of things from one tank on the jobsite)
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tigertiger

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2020, 04:04:30 AM »

What happened to the Rolls Royce engine that would run on any oil.  Including butter?
 


To my knowledge, engines like that are low power, and high fuel consumption. There are many engines like this, some that burn a mix of oil sludge and water.
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grendel

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2020, 05:56:54 AM »

a good friend that used to use veg oil in his diesel and had a processing unit told me that you are allowed to use up to 2500 litres a year with no additional tax, so every tankfull of diesel in my old volvo is thinned out with sunflower oil from asda, the big 5 litre bottles that have been as cheap as 3.75.
as for red diesel, most inshore boats use this but have to declare the proportion used for heating (usually a 60/40 mix) and pay tax accordingly. unfortunately there is some talk that marinas are going to be forced to stop selling red for propulsion, and that every boater will have to have their propulsion tanks specially cleaned to remove the dye, and that if they wish to use red for heating this will have to be from a separate tank. I can see the uproar when they find the cost of cleaning their tanks will come out of their own pockets.
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RST

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2020, 08:10:29 AM »

Most of us that work in the oil industry just watch you guys flapping about bbl prices and pump prices and why do we get scammed at the pumps as if it bears much comparison!  Petrol and DERV in UK is pretty much government controlled and we are not worst prices.  Brent crude goes up and down wildly -you have Government to complain to about what you get at the pump, not necessarily the oil producrs though granted, it's not quite that simple.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Gas ( Petroleum! ) prices
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2020, 08:32:25 AM »

A long standing good friend used the reclaimed cooking oil in his diesel car.  It ran OK, but needed constant renewal of the bits of rubber tubing.  He knew it needed renewing when he saw the veggysel dripping out underneath it.  Probably cost more in lost oil, replacement rubber, and extra hand washing and aggravation than it was really worth.  I gathered that was his opinion when he went back to using "proper" fuel.
I'm currently running a Citroen.  It does demand the expensive stuff for its diet.  Using Asda fuel caused a pollution prevention system warning light to come on after a couple of tankfuls.  But that's a more modern car with lots of the modern electronic gubbins.


Long ago, the firm decided to stop using huge standby batteries and go for smaller ones with a diesel standby generator and automatic control box with a big enough tank to last a fortnight or so.  Many buildings were also oil* heated.  Being the spare hand on the staff, I spent a lot of time covering for other people.  So it was that I went to one building, and about 11 or so a tanker rolled up with the intention of dropping off about 1200 gallons.  He had, by habit, parked near the boiler room, I let him at it, signed his chitty, and away he went.  Next morning my boss rang. 
"Have you run it?" HE said, eagerly
"Run what?" Said I, puzzeledly
"Your new genny" said HE, worriedly.
So next morning the tanker came again, and the juice got put in the right tank.  Both boiler and standby generator worked fine, it was the same stuff.  For all I know, most of that original oil is still down there.  It certainly never got more that routine test use since the early '70's.

*35 sec it I remember right.
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