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Author Topic: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build  (Read 17686 times)

Mark T

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #75 on: July 10, 2020, 05:56:11 pm »

Looking great and very fast progress - another good thing about scraping or planing is the lack of dust everywhere!

Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #76 on: July 10, 2020, 07:20:35 pm »

Thanks Mark  :-)  The plane is holding up since the modification too.


Nearing closure, three more pieces.






Ordered this morning. 30 clamps for 10.30p Amazon prime


Nordlys

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #77 on: July 10, 2020, 07:30:18 pm »

Are you not using the Amati pin tool that you pictured earlier?
Nord.
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Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #78 on: July 10, 2020, 07:39:54 pm »

Yes constantly but pins are only on the frames. Without clamps in between frames there will be undulation in side by side planks.
If you look closely Nord you will see nails, these are removed as the glue gets a grip.


Someone mentioned torsional stress earlier  %%   Just with this first skin of planks on the underside only it is absolutely rock solid.
Let's not lose the sense of scale, after all it's just a toy.


 I am now looking at further drillings to produce air  {-)

Nordlys

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #79 on: July 10, 2020, 08:18:30 pm »

Ok,  I get it. I can see them on that first plank. I could have really done with that tool when I was double diagonal planking my RAF Sea Tender made harder because I couldn't see the frames on the second layer.
Do you just push the pin in thru the plank with this tool ?
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ChrisF

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2020, 08:20:47 pm »

Those small clamps look to be pretty good quality. I've got some small ones where the grips/ends keep breaking and dropping out. One of my next builds involves planking so need some decent ones.

Where did you get your pins and tool from?

Build is looking great and I always smile at all those holes!

Chris
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Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #81 on: July 10, 2020, 08:21:36 pm »

Yes Nord. There is no accuracy with these tools but not necessary here as the frames are very much wider than the tool and the pins are temporary unlike with 18th century ship builds where the pins might be driven fully home and left in.


On the mahogany top skin I hope to use no pins at all.

Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #82 on: July 10, 2020, 08:25:52 pm »

Those small clamps look to be pretty good quality. I've got some small ones where the grips/ends keep breaking and dropping out. One of my next builds involves planking so need some decent ones.

Where did you get your pins and tool from?

Build is looking great and I always smile at all those holes!

Chris
Thank you. I bought from CMB


The clamps are Wolfcraft. When I bought the first lot they were nearly 1 per clamp and I thought that was good. To get 6 for 2.06 is crazy

Martin [Admin]

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #83 on: July 10, 2020, 08:27:45 pm »


Those small clamps look to be pretty good quality. I've got some small ones where the grips/ends keep breaking and dropping out. One of my next builds involves planking so need some decent ones.


I have the same Amazon / Wolfcraft and yes the end bits do keep falling off!
... try a tiny drop of PVA or flex glue.    :-))


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0002YYW3A/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Nordlys

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2020, 08:43:01 pm »

What I meant to say was that on the second layer of planks you can't use the spring clamps, that's where the pins come into their own.
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Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #86 on: July 10, 2020, 09:28:33 pm »

Port side done. Very little sanding needed to finish because I fettle as I go rather than leave for one big job at the end  :-))





EDIT sorry that was a bit thrifty on pictures  :embarrassed:
Some more











EDIT
one more

ChrisF

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #88 on: July 10, 2020, 10:26:14 pm »


I have the same Amazon / Wolfcraft and yes the end bits do keep falling off!
... try a tiny drop of PVA or flex glue.    :-))




I was hoping that the ends didn't fall off those! They look to be better than the black and orange ones I have left (after binning some) so have ordered some for my increasing clamps supply!


Chris
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ChrisF

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #89 on: July 10, 2020, 10:40:23 pm »

Thank you. I bought from CMB


The clamps are Wolfcraft. When I bought the first lot they were nearly 1 per clamp and I thought that was good. To get 6 for 2.06 is crazy


Thanks, something else (pins and tool) to add to my next CMB order!


Chris
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mrzippy

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #90 on: July 11, 2020, 09:55:46 am »

Looking good Andy !  the Amati kit builds into a great model (another on my extensive bucket list).

Liking the swiss cheese technique - Amati's self jigging construction involves lots of timber to keep the initial framework square,
when double skinned the hull will be rock solid and you may be able to remove even more, especially if you are glass skinning inside and out ?

Regarding the above clamps issue - a life long aeromodeller I've tried every clamp, jig and pin on the planet.
I've recently discovered plastic soft grip pegs and highly recommend them -
strong enough to hold items - but importantly won't dig into wood - ideal for model aircraft balsa structures etc,
easily squeezed open without requiring fingers like Arnie Schwarz. and 1.80 for 12 from the hardware shop.

Attached pictures of the packaging highlight the SHM label - beware similar imitations are around and nowhere near as good.

Paul
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Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #91 on: July 11, 2020, 10:08:27 am »

Thanks Paul
Last night I was sat looking at it with my pull saw in hand but thought I'd better not attack it under the influence of Belgian beer  {-)


The inside will be completely covered in finishing resin. The outside mahogany is I believe many coats of varnish.


The tips on the Wolfcraft clamps will come off if they have glue on the clamping face but not break off and can be re attached. . They are designed to swivel so they stay parallel to the surfaces at all thicknesses. When gluing the way I am they stick to the Aliphatic resin but if you swivel the clamps side to side it sheers any glue before squeezing the clamp to remove.

ChrisF

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #92 on: July 11, 2020, 11:19:31 am »

That's good to know, because like you I've ordered 30. The tips coming off won't be a problem, with my others (bought from one of the shows so expected better) the pins were breaking off, even before being used sometimes. I've got some of the bigger ones and they are better but they tend to be last resort clamps as I've got better.

It was a good decision not to do anything after partaking of Belgium beer! You're a braver man than me anyway with the number and closeness to each other of many of the holes you have cut. Those hole saws of yours must be good not to break the timber between holes.

Chris
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mrzippy

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #93 on: July 11, 2020, 02:55:43 pm »

Yes the pegs are great, they have a nice gently smooth spring action, with plenty of grip and soft jaws won't leave an indent - 
might be a tad wider/fatter than Wolf style, the ends could be squared off if required on a bench sander.

With you regarding PULL Saws - I'm annoyed it took 65 years of being on planet earth before discovering them !
great piece of kit, to date I have an Irwin crude plastic handled version, similar to Xacto saw size -
but have tried brother in laws full blown Japanese with wooden, leather bound handles,
and they are incredibly sharp and accurate, but a bit on the big size for table top use.

Re Riva handling, I've read somewhere the full size hulls do not have the usual spray rails etc,
it's perfect straight off Carlo's drawing board with no mods, therefore if the models are to scale and accuarate,
you would think they would perform the same.
I have seen the ARTF ready built versions that were popular around ten years ago, digging in on turns - they're not scale hulls.

A thought - going back to silly fast power boating days, if the model digs in, move the centre of gravity backwards to help lift the bow,
your extensive weight savings bound to help in lowering the hulls cg., it may also need moving backwards a tad ?
worth bearing in mind while you've got your pull saw to hand - is there plenty of room to move the lipo's etc backwards.

My offshore racer struggled in the turns, to the extent of barrel rolling sideways, moving all the essentials back as far as possible
made a huge difference to handling, may of even added a chunk of lead at the transom.

cheers Paul
 


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Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #94 on: July 11, 2020, 06:02:28 pm »

All the handling and weight problems are well covered in ukmike's Amati Riva build hence why we are all making weight reductions throughout but main concern is the bow. The boat rides low at the front at slow speed if not enough timber is removed.
All the running gear is in the rear half after the motors  O0


32 planks now fitted. 34 left to play with so looks like a few spare I'd say. I reckon about 20 to finish the sides and then there's only the foredeck to do.

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #95 on: July 11, 2020, 06:12:11 pm »


With you regarding PULL Saws - I'm annoyed it took 65 years of being on planet earth before discovering them !
great piece of kit, to date I have an Irwin crude plastic handled version, similar to Xacto saw size -
but have tried brother in laws full blown Japanese with wooden, leather bound handles,
and they are incredibly sharp and accurate, but a bit on the big size for table top use.

Re Riva handling, I've read somewhere the full size hulls do not have the usual spray rails etc,
it's perfect straight off Carlo's drawing board with no mods, therefore if the models are to scale and accuarate,
you would think they would perform the same.
I have seen the ARTF ready built versions that were popular around ten years ago, digging in on turns - they're not scale hulls.


I am also a convert to Japanese pull saws.  You can get small ones that can be used for modelling, like this.

I don't think an accurate scale model will automatically perform like the full size.  After all, water doesn't scale, its density, surface tension and so on stay the same whatever thesize of hull moving through it.  Scale Rivas have often had handling problems in the turn, and I think the hull form simply doesn't scale down particularly well.  Having said that I have no idea of the weight, centre of gravity, power to weight and so on of those models, so even if the hull shape is accurate other factors could be killing the model's performance.  It will be interesting to see how Andy's aggressive weight saving affects the handling.

Greg

Taranis

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #96 on: July 11, 2020, 06:21:33 pm »

Aggressive indeed but if I started again with the benefit of hindsight I would make much more savings pre assembly. Much easier to add weight than shed it  O0
I'm already thinking I want a much bigger one oops pardon  {-)

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #97 on: July 11, 2020, 06:32:24 pm »

Here's a bigger one Andy.  Well within your price range I'm sure!  (And some useful pictures for your super-detailing too!)

Greg

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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #98 on: July 11, 2020, 09:26:04 pm »

To quote the immortal words of Valerie Singleton "Here's one I made earlier" - the uk's answer to Riva, perhaps not !
don't think you've seen this Andy - it's another half finished symphony, one and a half times Aerokits 'Sea Hornet'.

Built as an experiment to see how well timber and white plastic planking works under epoxy finishes etc,
before committing to the likes of a Riva etc, poor old girl never did get flatted and polished -
West Systems and fine glass cloth (disappears) on the deck and didn't split or crack as expected.

Paul
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Re: Andy's Amati Riva Aquarama build
« Reply #99 on: July 14, 2020, 08:46:42 pm »

 :-))
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