Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   Go Down

Author Topic: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman  (Read 9751 times)

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #75 on: October 05, 2020, 11:18:36 am »

Thanks David,


That does help - and your progress as a "first time planker"  %)  gives me some encouragement .


On the Swordsman the real life craft is over 33 ft long, so the planks would have needed to be joined to cover the length of the deck somewhere, and presumably these joints would be staggered so ensure the they never ended all in the same place.


I need to find some pictures that show the side decking area as I would guess there must be one (possibly two) areas where the available length of Teak planking would dictate to some degree or other where these joints would be.


Nice work David - are you chamfering the edges of each plank to give a "caulking gap" or are you butt joining them?


Stay safe!


Bob.



Logged

DaveM

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 724
  • Why on earth do I do this?
  • Location: Nottingham
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #76 on: October 05, 2020, 11:54:35 am »

There are numerous piccies of real Swordsmen on the Fairey Owners Club website Gallery.
 I based my own pre-production model for the SLEC kit prototype on Tireur. The deck planking was laser-scored for me by those very nice people at Watton in birch ply. On that particular model I went for the "honey-coloured" effect by using Rustins Plastic Coating (which is actually a very hard 2-pack furniture finish) with a mahogany surround. I later found when doing a subsequent model of Huntress that this gives an excellent reproduction of weathered teak when you use the OSMO stuff suggested by Andy Waters on his Lobster Boat. It's eye-wateringly expensive but I have a lot left over - make me an offer? 8)
Attached photos relate to Huntress and link is to my model of Swordsman.  https://www.modelboats.co.uk/sites/2/images/member_albums/1480/829730.jpg
If you can drawn an accurate template of the planking shape, preferably in CAD, then I'm sure that a laser-scored deck and cockpit floor panels can be arranged.

Dave M
Logged

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #77 on: October 05, 2020, 01:07:54 pm »

Thanks Dave,


I have sent you a PM and my details so we can arrange for me to transfer the payment for the stains to you today.


Many thanks,


Bob.
Logged

DJW

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 276
  • Location: London
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2020, 02:30:24 pm »

Hi Bob


My build is at 1/10, the kit supplies 1x1mm (lime.?) as a spacer between the 1x3mm mahogany strips.





So I'm just butting these together, I think this is an intentional two tone effect to the planking rather than a caulking effect.


I guess you have a slightly different effect needed, so yes a slight bevel might work with some suitable filler.  I'd defer to the Swordsman builders on that... And for sure test on scrap first.


Best of luck
David.


zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #79 on: October 05, 2020, 04:44:30 pm »

That looks nice David - and it suites your boat really well.


I will be practicing on some scrap off-cuts long before committing my activities to my Swordsman deck!
Logged

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #80 on: October 05, 2020, 05:27:47 pm »

I've read a few threads on planking in the past and favoured methods include using thin black card or running a black pen down the joints.

However seeing the result that Joe has achieved and our builds being at a slightly smaller scale I'm going with just butting the planks together.

Chris
Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #81 on: October 05, 2020, 07:49:41 pm »

Hi Chris,

I have a challenge for you!

Do you have any idea how long the planks of teak were that Fairey used on the Swordsman decks by any chance?


Failing that, do you have any pictures in your vast expanse of Fairey info that shows how and where they are joined please?


I could just plank the deck with 36" lengths of 5mm wide wood, but I doubt that Fairey had too many 33ft + lengths of Teak that would enable them to plank all of the 61  Swordsman that they made (including some longer Super Swordsman hulls) with no joints at all.


My guess would be that they join them somewhere along the side decks and that they would have made a series of staggered joints, but this would still need some very long planks of teak between 17ft  and 18 ft long, so they may have made more than one joint per plank width, and if so, I would guess that they could be fairly random to spread the joints whilst still keeping them looking as attractive as possible for their wealthy customers.


Bob.


Logged

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #82 on: October 05, 2020, 09:35:33 pm »

Hi Bob


You don't ask for much do you!  :-)


But continuing with Tireur as she is one of the best examples of a Swordsman. One photo shows an earlier weathered deck and all I've found is a single joint (so one each side) about half way down, in the outermost plank, near the mooring rope, so about 16 foot long planks there.


The other photo looks to be after refurbishment and she looks a beauty. There are multiple joints where there was one before. Given that many/most Faireys have had new decks over the years I'd say go with what you fancy.


At this scale I'm going with no joints!


Chris

Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #83 on: October 05, 2020, 09:40:14 pm »

Thanks Chris,


You are "the man that can" when it comes to information on Fairey boats.........and I thought the challenge would spike you into action  :-))


Stay safe,


Bob.
Logged

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #84 on: October 05, 2020, 09:42:02 pm »

Here's the front view after refurb. and as I said a beauty.


I've got some Schooner tung oil I've used on my Huntsman 28 deck (plain birch ply) which provides a nice honey colour which I shall be using.


Chris
Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2020, 09:46:38 pm »

Thanks Chris,


You are "the man that can" when it comes to information on Fairey boats.........and I thought the challenge would spike you into action  :-))


Stay safe,


Bob.


I would have done it sooner but was having our weekly overdose of Only Connect and University Challenge plus this week with Mastermind. I'm happy if I get one of the Only Connect questions right and a couple of the word wall sequences!


Looking at the first photo again it looks like every other board has a joint which makes sense.


Chris
Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #86 on: October 05, 2020, 10:11:35 pm »

Another example that shows staggered joints near the front of the cabin so I guess the planks are in thirds.

So no set pattern and no one is going to count your rivets!

Chris



Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 8,561
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #87 on: October 05, 2020, 10:18:41 pm »

mmmmm  :o and two totally different anchoring [hardware] between both examples.......Chris


Both have the Fluke [on standby]  with one Bent Sand/Bruce/Plough on chain...[the latter has many names depending on location and or Country]


Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

Taranis

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,229
  • Balne Moor MBC
  • Location: Yorkshire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #88 on: October 05, 2020, 10:28:36 pm »

Thanks Dave,


I have sent you a PM and my details so we can arrange for me to transfer the payment for the stains to you today.


Many thanks,


Bob.


I love the stuff  :-)   SLEC lasered decking  :-))







Awesome Dave

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #89 on: October 08, 2020, 06:23:12 pm »

The precious deck stain has arrived safely from DM and it is now sat on the shelf ready for when I have got far enough to have a use for it!


Meanwhile, back on the bench, I have finished adding 1/8" x 1/4" obechie strip doublers to each lower edge of the 4mm bulkheads to increase the bonding area for the lower hull skins and for the same reason I have added some narrow and shaped 1/2" balsa wood to the bows on the lower keel and under the chine former as the plywood skins go all the way to the front of the bows and I want to give them a bigger bonding area rather than relying on the small surface area that the keel (with doublers) and the chine former have to offer.


I am also adding 1/8" x 1/4" obechie strips to the side edges of the bulkheads to increase the bonding area for the side skins too.


The Aerokits construction method uses the well established technique of doubling the first 1/8" x 1/4" obechie stringers with a second laminated layer to give a 1/4" x 1/4" profile prior to sanding shape.  After these laminated stringers have been sanded to shape on a deep "V" hull like this, the bonding area for the lower skin gets reduced, so I added anther strip of 1/8" x 1/4" on the underside and when this is included in the sanded profile the bonding area looks a little healthier (about 9mm wide).


A little (but not much)  extra weight will have been added to the hull by doing this, but the bonding area will have been increased significantly and hopefully this will give a good strong hull that can withstand some abuse for several years to come.


All of my boats get used on a regular basis and I often like to drive them fast (white water junkie?), but I also expect them to last for some time so a little extra reinforcement during the construction (that does not adversely affect the overall weight) is something that I like to include whenever possible.


With more "lock-downs" due to the spread of Covid  looking likely in the near future, we are going away for a few days in our caravan (while we can) so there won't be any more progress on any of my builds until after we get home again later.  Our return date could be dictated by HMG, but it will probably be early next week!


Enjoy your weekend!



Logged

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #90 on: October 08, 2020, 07:28:03 pm »

Hi Bob

Like you I've added some additional timbers to increase the gluing area but I don't worry about the bottom and sides of the bulkheads unless there is a joint as the skins are basically spanning between the stringers. But personal preference and it doesn't hurt.

Mine's getting pretty heavy already, not that it matters, and is as solid as a rock!

I hope your caravans well insulated!

Chris
Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #91 on: October 08, 2020, 07:52:26 pm »

If I remember correctly Chris, you used thicker plywood for your keel and bulkheads than I did?


I used the kit specified plywood in these areas and without the additional doublers I would have had a lot less surface area to bond to that you have achieved by using heaver gauge plywood.


There is a strong possibility that neither of us need to have worried as my original Aerokits Swordsman never had any additional strengthening during the assembly and it was always driven hard with a 10cc Merco 61 twin-plug glow motor - including racing it off-shore - and on one occasion in a 6ft swell!


In addition, the adhesives used then were probably not so good (Cascamite and Aerolite 306) as the powerful (and impact resistant) PVA and Aliphatic resins that we mostly use these days.

I also added two part expanding "boyancy foam" in the bows.  These two additions were (in the case of the resin) partly to fuel proof the wood, and the foam was to stop it sinking if I got into trouble when out at sea - but I am sure that both would have helped to strengthen the hull !


Logged

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #92 on: October 09, 2020, 03:05:15 pm »

Yes you're right Bob, I used 6mm ply for bulkheads and for the keel and doublers. I even use 6mm for the keel and doublers in my little Huntress build, but much reduced in height and once profiled for the skins they don't weigh that much.

I should have cut out the middle of Bulkhead 3 on the Swordsman though, lack of experience there. I'm not going to bother removing it though now. The motor should be plenty powerful enough! It's stopping it that will be the problem!

Chris
Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #93 on: October 09, 2020, 04:06:47 pm »


Hi Chris,

The link I forwarded to you by email shows a superb Swordsman - the White Swordsman - a fabulous example that has recently gained a new owner.

The description below tells us all we need to know about its condition:-

"Entered for the Fairey Owners’ Concours d’Elegance in 3 years out of the last 5 and winning all 3 is testament enough to WHITE SWORDSMAN’s condition."

http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/180/fairey-swordsman-33-ft-aft-cabin-1964



Logged

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #94 on: October 09, 2020, 05:08:05 pm »

Yes, it's certainly a lovely example.

It's great that there are folks around who are having these old girls brought back to their former glory and maintaining them as such.

It's also a pity that others are deteriorating due to them being a moneypit.

Chris
Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,964
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #95 on: October 09, 2020, 07:04:59 pm »

Quote
It's also a pity that others are deteriorating due to them being a moneypit.

True, but when a wooden boat gets beyond a certain point you are really on a hiding to nothing.

Colin
Logged

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #96 on: October 09, 2020, 07:29:06 pm »

True, but when a wooden boat gets beyond a certain point you are really on a hiding to nothing.

Colin


True - even when on a smaller scale Colin...............I was thinking about my restoration project Chris Craft Corvette.......  :((
Logged

tonyH

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,596
  • Model Boat Mayhem Forum is the Best!
  • Location: Suffolk, England
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #97 on: October 09, 2020, 07:58:18 pm »

Bow stuff and doublers.
Logged

zooma

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 566
  • Never too old to learn !
  • Location: Rossendale and Formby Lancashire
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #98 on: October 09, 2020, 10:43:07 pm »

I thought I would cut out the paper bottom skin templates that came with the Swordsman plans that I bought on eBay.


Well, that was interesting!  The side skin is in fact the bottom skin (!) and despite what was printed on the bottom skin it is definitely the side skin!!


I presented the side (bottom skin) to the hull and found that it was shorter than the hull and the shape at the transom was also not like the false transom shape!  I quickly checked the length of my construction, and found that it was the length that it should be and that the transom formers did fit the Aerokits plan as they should.


Sadly, we are not eating enough cereal these days to keep up with my template production, but I was able to flatten a small box that the Twinings "Everyday Tea" came in, and also the box that my wife's breakfast  biscuits came in, and with a little masking tape to cover the necessary joints I had enough cardboard to cover the length of a real bottom skin.


After cutting my new template out I checked it against the hull and it fitted well so I drew around it onto some plywood skin and cut them out using my Tamiya razor saw.


Checking the new cut bottom skins against the hull they fitted OK,  so when I get back from the caravan I will get them fitted.


Meanwhile, I need to start looking for some other cardboard boxes that can be flattened and pressed into service as my side skin templates!


Enjoy your weekend!


Bob.


Logged

ChrisF

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 791
  • What's my favourite cake!
  • Location: Warwick
Re: 1/12 scale Fairey Marine Swordsman
« Reply #99 on: October 09, 2020, 11:18:23 pm »

Hi Bob

Those templates are only any good for lighting a fire!

For my templates I bought a few sheets of thin card from Rymans. More expensive but good!

What thickness are you using for the skins?

Chris
Logged
Concentrating in the main, on the fine Fairey Marine boats, which is plenty for me to be getting on with!
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   Go Up