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[785boats]

I found your thread on the Invincible and had a bit of a read through it. Superb work. I don't just mean the planking, but the whole project. Certainly something to be proud of.

Luckily for me I won't need to worry about joggling at the outer edge as it is all covered up by the armour plating sections.
The lazer printed decking, in the little kit, doesn't show any joggling around the barbette or main cabin either.
Admittedly, that may not be a true representation of the original ship, but I can't find any images of those areas of decking to either confirm or deny.

One question that you, or any other member here, may be able to answer is, what was the maximum lengt of 8" planks that ship builders used in those days.
I ask, because some of the planks scale out to around 18 meters long on the little kits planking sheet. That makes them 382mm on my 1:48 scale model.
Was that done in those days, or should I make them shorter?

Cheers.
Paul.

[Akira]

Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree, but a 18 meter plank is around 60 feet. Not only would one be hard pressed to find lumber of that length, but working with it would be a bit inconvenient. i would suspect lengths of between 12-20 feet, or say 3.5 -6 meters. Most engraved decks on kits seem to be quite flawed when it comes to plank dimensions.BUT, I have been wrong before.....

[785boats]

Thanks Akira.
Those were my thoughts too. But I had to ask the question when I saw those long planks on the kits deck.
My original thinking was for 4 meter lengths laid down in a 4 butt pattern.
Not sure how accurate that is for Russian ships of this period, but it is a pleasing pattern to my eye.
Maybe longer lengths were used, like the 6 meters you mentioned. I don't know.
Cheers.

[785boats]

Finished the fiberglassing and coats of resin on both the hull and deck.
And the deck has been trimmed and sanded to fit the hull.

Spent a lazy Sunday today building up the main cabin and cutting some 5mm wide strips from some veneer I had lying around, for the decks.


The basic frame was made from some 5mm balsa and the sides are from 1/16" aircraft ply. The top will be ply too, but that can wait until tomorrow.
I need some food and it's time to open a nice bottle of Cabernet Merlot.

[ballastanksian]

Hey Paul,


Yes, the Popovs did get upgraded from time to time, and a set of flying bridges were added later in Novgorod's career along with light guns and Gatlings/Nordenfeldts on the ends of the Bridges. The rudder was also decommissioned (but retained for water flow IIRC) and steered by controlling the engine revolutions as the rudder was useless on such a bluff hull shape, as was found in WW1 with the early Big Gun monitors that had directional control problems.


Build her how you want to Paul, and enjoy the experience, followed by the rollercoaster ride of sailing her!!!

[785boats]

Thanks mate. That's what I'll do.
The main cabin size and layout was measured off the pics below. That is the layout I am going to use. Deck planked. And the two fly bridges included.But I will also plank the deck of the main cabin as in the second picture.
Also the rear bridge with the open ships wheel on top. I like the look of that version.

[tonyH]

When they changed the steering system on Admiral Popov they changed the inner screws from 4 blade to large 3 blade ones. This improved the steerability BUT they had to park the inner ones with two blades downward and the third blade vertically upwards so the screw did not ground in shallow water!

[ballastanksian]

Oh, the ninteenth century!

[785boats]

When they changed the steering system on Admiral Popov they changed the inner screws from 4 blade to large 3 blade ones. This improved the steerability BUT they had to park the inner ones with two blades downward and the third blade vertically upwards so the screw did not ground in shallow water!

Thanks John.
That confirms what ballastanksian said some posts ago. I've been looking for images with the three blade props but can't find any as yet.
But the Popov was a different ship to the Novgorov. Maybe they didn't do that on the Novgorov.

[tonyH]

The info was in the Graces Guide pages and the implication was that both Popov and Novgorod would be the same.Can't find any photographic evidence for either but..............?

[785boats]

Thanks Tony.
I don't know why I referred to you as John in my last post, Sorry about that.

[785boats]

So here's the question for the day.
How do I get some information or pictures/drawings of those two steam boats on the Novgorod or Popov.
I don't know if they are a Picket, a Pinace, a Captains boat, a life boat, or what?
I've searched the 'wide wide world of web' to the best of my abilities, but can't find anything.
That's not saying much, because my abilities on this compootery thing aren't very good.
Any help in finding something would be greatly appreciated.
At 1:48 scale they work out to be about 176mm long.
Cheers.
Paul.

[tonyH]

Roughly the right size and period.

[Geoff]

I thought I may have had something for you in a book called: Imperial Russian Navy 1890 - 1916 but nothing helpful. However maybe widen your search as such boats did not typically change much in decades. For example a RN steam launch from 1890's is virtually identical to Hood 1939. Its unlikely they were specifically designed for a particular ship.


This may allow you to widen your search.


Good luck


Geoff

[785boats]

Thanks guys.


Tony.
Thanks for the drawing. with that and the photosof other models, I should be able to replicate a reasonable facimilie.
Although teo of them will probably take longer than the main ship itself.


Geoff.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll do some more hunting to add the other information and pictures.

[785boats]

Well, as we all know, a piece of ply will not bend in both directions. So I decided to cover the roof of the main cabin with pieces of 1/16" ply like the main deck.
The center of the roof ended up a bit flat so I applied a couple of layers of Auto body blade putty and sanded it to conform with both curves. It's now ready for planking.


I wanted to glue in a floor on top of the framework to mount the motors, shafts, servos, ESC's etc. But I felt the beed to add some weight under the floor first.
So I bought a roll of lead flashing and cut some pizza triangles to fit in between the stringers.
I managed to get 3 pieces siliconed into each section. The total weight of the lead is just on 5 pounds. Not any where near enough I know, but it's a start.


So then I cut a disc of 1/8" ply and cut out some notches for the frames to come through.


Here's some pics.

[Geoff]

Be careful you don't leave it lying around as your other half may add some topping and put it in the oven! 


Coming along nicely. I would counsel you don't glue the floor in but use screws as this will allow you to adjust the ballast if the need arrives.


Nice work


Cheers


Geoff

[785boats]

Mmmm! A lead based marinara pizza with extra anchovies. Sounds delicious.

Too late on the fixing of the floor though Geoff. It's all glued down.
There will be no need to remove any of that ballast, as I think we will need about 10 pounds more to sink it down to the waterline.
I'll make up some lead blocks to spread around in the hull during the sea trials to balance it all up.
We have an inter club sail, sale, & swap meet today at our club, so I might take it along & drop it in the water to see how much ballast it needs.


Cheers.

[785boats]

Just returned home from the club.
I placed the hull in the water and it only went down about 25mm.
After adding an extra 22 pounds of lead on top of the 5 pounds already in there, it was still riding about 10mm high.
So when the rest of the boat is built, and all the drive gear & batteries etc are added, it should be pretty close.


A few pics from the day.

[Akira]

Wonderful photos, thanks for posting them.

[dougal99]

Oh for those facilities. Not to mention the weather  Lovely photos.

[785boats]

I'm glad you like the photos.
We are blessed with the facilities at the Brisbane Entertainment Center. They just recently rebuilt the dock & shelter for us. Some of the timbers in the old one were getting past their use by date.
And the weather? Well it's model boat sailing weather nearly all year round, here in sunny Queensland.
But we do get the sudden rains storm that puts the shelter to good use.


Here's our clubs website if you want a better look of how we do things down here in the colonies.
http://triple-s.org.au/

[ballastanksian]

I am impressed that it will only take 22pounds of lead given the all buoyancy hull shape. The fitting of the lead under the floor is clever, I have lots of balsa blocking to remove from mine to provide more space for lead, but the weight is useful reference.


Most of the references in this topic above show two cutters/dinghies and two Steam Pinnaces.

[785boats]

Hi ballastanksian.

Just a bit of a clarification on the weight there.
That's 22lb plus the 5lb already in the hull, for 27lb in total so far. It will still need a bit more to get it down to the waterline.


I only asked about the two steam boats because I had no idea what they were. The two dinghies aren't a problem. Should be easy to make. I think there are even some that can be bought pretty much the right size, for just a few bucks from those sites that sell all those period ship fittings. It's down the track a bit, but I like to gather information early for this sort of thing.


Cheers.

[785boats]

I had a crack at doing some planking over the last few days.
I decided to just leave a fraction of a gap between the planks, rather than try to simulate black caulking with pencil, or ink, or tape, or black paper, etc.
Im afraid I just don't have the patience for that. My apologies to the purists.


I made up a little jig from 3 pieces of ply to cut all the strips into 150mm long planks.
Then I marked the 'imaginary' bulkdead spacings at 30mm apart, which is 1/5 the length of the planks.
As previously stated, I had planned to use the 4 butt spacing layout. What was used originally, I have no idea. I just like the look of this layout. See reply #52.


I started in the center behind the babette, and worked my way out and forward from there.
Doesn't the first plank look so lonely sitting there all by itself.


I'm using medium CA glue to hold the planks in place. Just a thin bead along the centerline of the plank, and then hold the plank in position for 10 or 20 seconds.
Photo # 3 shows the bead of CA on the deck where the next plank is going to be installed.
I am using an old set of flush cutters to trim the planks to length and to cut the angles where required.
I've just got a bit of one side left to do on the main deck, and then it's on to the roof of the cabin.


Here's a few pics of the progress.