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Author Topic: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build  (Read 113425 times)

Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2008, 09:57:27 pm »

Looking good Martin !

Boy - do I wish I had a workshop that big  :( :( :( :(  mine is also the office and is about 6'x10' !




 :( :( :( :( :( :( :(


regards

Andi

Good one Andi, O0 we live on a fairly large property and have a bit of room. A mans shed is his domain and I wish my workshop was as tidy as yours. The centre bench where I'm building the hull  measures  6' x 12'. Actually the shed is 20' x 40' and I have another at right angles the same size. :)

Having said that, because I have the room doesn't mean that I am a better modeler. In fact, looking at other peoples builds, it appears the smaller the workshop, the better the Model - just look at DickyD:'( :'( :'(

Martin doon under
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andi4x4

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2008, 10:05:10 pm »

 Lol,

 The only reason mine is tidy is because I wouldn never find the door out ! It is actually a bit messier in that pic than I would normally have it.

As for the smaller the room, thebetter the modeller - I think I had better move into the cupboard under the stairs then !  {-) {-) {-)

Regards

Andi

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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2008, 10:13:25 pm »

Lol,

As for the smaller the room, the better the modeller - I think I had better move into the cupboard under the stairs then !  {-) {-) {-)

Regards

Andi


Andi, there is one advantage to a large shed, whenever I have visitors the model is usually the last thing they see and in some cases, NOT at all. O0 O0 O0

Martin doon under
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tigertiger

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2008, 03:51:17 pm »

Topic split and moved

As much as I also love the Quatro, I have created a new thread Audi Quatro and Other Cars and moved this discussion to other hobbies and interests

Now back to HMS Brave Borderer.

Thanks
TT
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2008, 12:27:57 pm »

After sanding all weekend, I have started on the Chine Line repair where I inadvertently put a radius after some vigorous sanding. Still applying more P38 than I really need, but "what the heck".

Photo shows one side completed - sort of :-\

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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2008, 12:38:10 pm »

To be honest, its actually better to put on too much body filler as I found it far easier to gain correct shape and fair in.
Quite pleased with filler repair on Chine Line  :) :)- Line now has a definite edge and faired in well near the bow.

Finally got it right :) :) :)


Martin doon under O0
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andi4x4

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2008, 12:04:50 am »

Topic split and moved

As much as I also love the Quatro, I have created a new thread Audi Quatro and Other Cars and moved this discussion to other hobbies and interests

Now back to HMS Brave Borderer.

Thanks
TT


 Thanks Tiger,

 I have followed up with it on the new location !

Regards

Andi
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andi4x4

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2008, 12:06:54 am »

To be honest, its actually better to put on too much body filler as I found it far easier to gain correct shape and fair in.
Quite pleased with filler repair on Chine Line  :) :)- Line now has a definite edge and faired in well near the bow.

Finally got it right :) :) :)


Martin doon under O0

Looks good Martin !  I have a fibreglass hull on mine, and I must admitt that the chines are not as sharp as I would like - I may consider doing this with my GRP one.

Regards

Andi

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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2008, 01:48:36 pm »

Now that the Chine Line is correct and hull sanded, I have applied two coats of pure resin.

After the pong dissipated, I have placed the hull over the bath tub (won't fit in) to allow the resin to fully cure for the rest of the week. Next weekend if all goes well, will start final sanding before priming hull :) :)

Martin doon under
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #59 on: June 08, 2008, 01:00:06 pm »

Been a while since I last posted but this is a SLOW build.

After the two coats of resin applied and dried in the bathroom for a whole week, I started sanding again using 80 Grit Emery Paper followed by 120 Grit. This was followed up with 180 wet and dry on a wetted hull and gradually worked my way down to 600 Wet and Dry. Believe me, this took a few weekends to achieve before I was happy with the result.

In trying to work out motors, ESC's, batteries etc - FLJ has suggested a fit using his P94 setup but I keep changing my mind re motors - it appears I cannot choose a motor to start with..I gave up in total confusion and decided to leave this part till I have installed the prop shafts and rudders.

Prop Shafts - I must give a big thankyou to Bluebird in working out the correct location for shafts and rudders. I need prop shafts at least 15 - 16 inches long and am currently having them manufactured by Float-A-Boat here in Oz.

Spent all day Saturday in working out prop shaft locations and drilling hole for Center Prop Shaft. Now any decent modeler would have built the slot in the keel during build but I was unsure of it's exact location. Luckily, I had some long shank drill bits but I still took my time and re-measured many times before commencing.

After the centre prop, I also drilled and filed the outboard prop locations including holes for rudders. Had to slightly modify one of the internal formers to allow clearance for shafts.
I then made up a jig to hold props in correct position/alignment - not quite right yet as the starboard shaft needs to be lowered a little more.

If you look at the inside shot for propshafts and rudders, you will see that I need to add extra material at hull entry point to beef up these areas, probably next weekend...

Martin doon under
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #60 on: June 08, 2008, 01:02:32 pm »

Forgot the inside hull shot..

Martin doon under
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John W E

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #61 on: June 08, 2008, 02:13:08 pm »

Hi ya there my mate Martin Doon under

Speed building causes many mistakes - so, as you are doing, take your time.   The build is looking very good at this moment and as far as re-enforcing around your propeller and rudder shafts you have two options; around the rudder posts you could put plywood of approximately 1/8 inch thick and about 1 inch x 1 inch square epoxied into the hull - and this would spread the load.  The same with your two outer prop shafts.   But, we are not building a super-duper light weight extremely thin hull here; and we are not going to apply vast amounts of stress to the propeller shafts or rudders, through using high performance motors.   So, if you wanted, you could bond the prop shafts and rudder tubes in with car body filler; feathering the edges of the body filler out, along the inside of your hull.   This may be an easier option;

the other thought I have, in your photographs are these prop shafts and prop tubes you are going to use on your final build?   If so, dont forget to cut them to length required before you bond them in  O0

John
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #62 on: June 09, 2008, 01:16:29 am »

John, Thanks for that mate.

I think I feel more comfortable in placing ply around rudders and prop shafts for reinforcement seeing that their are only two layers of 0.6mm ply.
The prop tubes in the photo are only their for fitment indications ie, see where the prop tubes end up. The center shaft is only 14 inches long and will receive longer shafts later this week.
My only concern is that the center prop shaft is only about 1/2 inch above keel. I will need to place some ply in the hull to mount the motors (and probably on aluminium brackets) and would like to have clearance from the hull for air flow and water cooling coils.

The motors I am currently looking at are the Graupner 700BB Turbo's (7.2 - 19.2v) and MFA 850's which will be powered by a Gel Cell.
I am also investigating the "Darke Horse" Speed 700, 3:1 Ratio Planetary Marine Motors (high voltage, low current drain). Apparently, these motors are suited to this type of model and can operate from 6V to 28V using up to 20 Nimh Cells.

Electronics, will probably use ACTion's P94 setup but if this turns out unsuitable, the unit will be ideal for my 2 shaft Freemantle Class Patrol Boat (arriving shortly)..

I think I will be a lot happier to have the motors in hand so I can determine final length and placement of prop shafts before I set them in permanently...

John and forum members, please feel free to comment - it's all helpful and appreciated O0

Martin doon under
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Peter Fitness

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2008, 02:00:51 am »

Martin, that looks great. O0 Now I'm back home, I'll soon be getting back in my shed and building again. I had intentions of building a Grand Banks cruiser, followed by an Armidale Class patrol boat, but arrived back with a Billing Nordkap kit. As I have not tried plank on frame construction before, I thought that this kit may be a good introduction to the technique. I guess I'll just have to live a couple of years longer to fit the others in  {-)
I look forward to more pictures of your Brave Borderer build.
Peter.
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banjo

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2008, 03:19:17 am »

 O0
Cooling Coils.....
If you are a bit pushed for space there are cooling gizmo's that sit, saddle like, on the top and sides of the motor.  I got a couple for my Fire/Crash Boat.
They are in the catalogue at ASTEC.

Its a great boat you got building there...

 :)
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banjo

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #65 on: June 09, 2008, 04:24:54 am »

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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #66 on: June 10, 2008, 12:17:45 pm »

:)

Cooling Jacket at :- http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/products-big.php?gref=g3326.jpg

Banjo, thanks for the info, clever little units. Hopefully by Friday I will receive my prop shafts in the mail. I will sit them into position and see what clearance I have with that center shaft - may have to sit the center motor a little further back than the outer shafts.

On the weekend I hope to start making the "P" Brackets. Currently, I have a friend drilling the 8mm holes in the 13mm shaft housing - much easier and accurate on a lathe. The upright part of the bracket will be made from 3mm brass flat bar - this is going to be a pain in the butt. I have a steel cut-off saw - I hope I can use that - better than a Hack-Saw. :embarrassed:

Peter, glad to see you finally made it home and ONLY one kit?? Plank on Frame - I had a lot of fun with this one, but alas, it is and will be a slow build.. Ho Hum

Martin doon under
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #67 on: June 27, 2008, 11:06:26 am »

Hi All,

Back for a quick update on a slow build.

Longer prop tubes arrived but alas, center shaft still too short. I have now ordered 1 shaft with a tube length of 520mm as I figure that I can always make it shorter.
Motors - finally decided on the "Darke Horse" Speed 700, 3:1 Ratio Planetary Extra High Performance Low Inertia Marine Units (phew, that was a mouth full) and they arrived today with cooling jackets fitted. Also included a great set of instructions, heavy duty couplers, water pickup tubes and other bits and pieces. These motors have a voltage range of 6V - 28 V and I intend to run on 24V.

I have a CD of a 1:24 Perkasa with 2 of these motors and the boat was literally flying.

"P" Brackets. Managed to cut these out of 3mm Brass flat and have used CA glue to temporarily hold together for shaft alignment etc. When I am finally happy with shaft locations, motor mount setup and alignment, will have them silver soldered.

The pictures below show the tubes, props and "P" Brackets assemblies including the center motor aligned with a Brass tube cut to the length of 520mm just to see if I have enough clearance. The P & S motors will be set forward of the center motor

Martin
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John W E

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #68 on: June 28, 2008, 12:21:54 pm »

G'day Martin

The build is coming along fine  O0  my apologies Sir, for getting the length of the centre shaft wrong - but, it is very difficult to see a ruler from 13000 miles or so away, even though I do admit to having the plans in front of me  :embarrassed: as a thought though - ALL IS NOT LOST - instead of purchasing a longer centre shaft; you could put an intermediate shaft in - where you have a solid coupling between your propeller shaft and the intermediate shaft - following by a thrust bearing mounted on a bulk head.  Then, on the end of that, where the intermediate shaft comes through the bearing - you could then have your muff coupling connected to your motor.  The length of the intermediate shaft would equal the length you require to move the motor back to give you the correct height and angle.

The other thing I would add, as an alternative, to the way you are building your 'P' brackets - where you have your baseplate fixed to the upright on the 'P' bracket you could dispense with this for the time being and manufacture the 'P' bracket say 3/4 inch longer so therefore the upright would have to go through the bottom of the hull in a pre-cut slot.   Leave this unglued until you have set your prop shafts into the hull at the correct angle - then epoxy on the inside - the 'P' bracket upright.  This will give a lot more strength & a lot more load displacement.   When the epoxies have all set, you could then cut a slot in your base plate and reposition this over the upright and the 'P' bracket and the remaining bit of the slot as visible could be 'filled in' with car body filler to camouflage the slot.

The third thing I note is that you are not cutting short your propeller tubes.  On the original vessel; the propeller tube only protruded from the hull 6 - 7 inches so in scale this would be about 1/2 inch.  Then the propeller shaft itself runs unprotected and open to the environment until it reaches the 'P' bracket where it goes through a set of bearings and then to your propeller.

Food for thought.

aye
john e
bluebird
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #69 on: June 28, 2008, 12:55:03 pm »

G'day Martin

The build is coming along fine  O0  my apologies Sir, for getting the length of the centre shaft wrong - but, it is very difficult to see a ruler from 13000 miles or so away, even though I do admit to having the plans in front of me  :embarrassed: as a thought though - ALL IS NOT LOST - instead



The third thing I note is that you are not cutting short your propeller tubes.  On the original vessel; the propeller tube only protruded from the hull 6 - 7 inches so in scale this would be about 1/2 inch.  Then the propeller shaft itself runs unprotected and open to the environment until it reaches the 'P' bracket where it goes through a set of bearings and then to your propeller.

Food for thought.

aye
john e
bluebird

No need to apologise John, even I didn't get it right. Only last night have ordered a much longer center shaft (this will be the third one). Also have been advised by the motor supplier that the shaft itself should be 5mm, then machined down to take 4mm prop.

These motors I am installing may load up the shaft at 24v and with the center shaft being so long - need to go heavier. I did think about intermediate shafts but cannot even get a single shaft the correct length. No worries about all the shafts as I am sure they will come in handy some day.

Your third point, can I please have a sketch - I'm a bit THICK tonight :D :D :D

Martin doon under
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #70 on: June 28, 2008, 01:13:31 pm »

John, One other thing I left out.

The photo showing the shafts protruding through the hull (inside). These are only tubes and not the proper shaft tubes. I have been using these off-cuts for alignment purposes only and to see where and how much clearance I had from the keel.

Keep up the observations and comments as you may see something that I missed or did not take into consideration. ???

All observations and comments greatly received O0

Martin doon under ;)
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John W E

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #71 on: June 28, 2008, 01:18:57 pm »

G'day Martin
 O0 O0
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Martin13

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #72 on: June 28, 2008, 01:40:05 pm »

How I love your sketches ;) ;)

Now I see what you are saying. Cut the tubes down so they only protude 1/2" then an exposed shaft to the "P" Bracket...Hmmm

This is going to be a problem - my head hurts >>:-( >>:-(


Martin in need of medication
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John W E

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #73 on: June 28, 2008, 02:13:48 pm »

Hi ya there Martin

well If you have a look at the pictures that you sent to me, you will see how the shaft is exposed and how the 'P' bracket is made up.   Will try to post a couple of photographs to show what I mean  O0 O0

aye
john
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John W E

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Re: My HMS Brave Borderer 1:16 Scale Build
« Reply #74 on: June 28, 2008, 02:19:57 pm »

and some more pics....  O0 O0 O0
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