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[RipSlider]

As I finally seem to be comitted to a build which actually involved wood and metal, rather than foam and fibreglass, it is becoming radpidly clear that I need to upgrade my tool kit.

The tools I'm using for modelling are a mixture of stuff where I've wandered into a shop looking for a whatsit and brought which ever is cheapest, or stuff that i've inheritied from my dad's dad.

The cheap stuff is as you would expect - cheap rubbish - and I reckon that I'm paying more replacing cheap junk than I would if I brought quality first time around.

Equally my grandad's stuff is - in places - very good indeed, but is either a bit heavy duty or is now showing it's age. I've just been using chisels from the 1930's. They're like razors but the handles are knackered and years of sharpening have left the edge - while amazing - wavy - which isn't much use for cleaning up cuts.

So, I'm going to institute a programme of re-equipping my tools kit - but I want get good stuff once - and still have it being used in 70 years time - rather than just replacing rubbish with rubbish. My grandad brought the best there was at the time and it shows.

So, my question is this:

For the various types of tools that we use both for modelling and/or general work around the house , who are regarded as the best makers.

I know that FootPrint used to be, but I think they aren't considered like that anymore.

Any idea who is producing the best stuff today?

And in this I'm discussing power tools as well as hand tools ( but hand tools are my current main focus )

Thanks

Steve

[HS93 (RIP)]

chisels from the 1930's will have better steel in them than you can get now , re grind them and get some new handels , they will hold the edge better than modern tools unless you want to pay for the likes of Lie-Nielsen

http://www.axminster.co.uk/src/08wk27b/product-Lie-Nielsen-Bevel-Edge-Socket-Chisels-460348.htm

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?src=08wk27b&pf_id=20380&filter_cat=&manufacturer_id=Lie-Nielsen&name=&user_search=&sfile=1&jump=48

or veritas

http://www.axminster.co.uk/src/08wk27b/product-Veritas-Standard-Block-Plane-724611.htm

Hs93

[Tom@Crewe]

I cant and would not say which are the best tool makes as many people have varying ides, but what I will say is, Its not worth paying for the most expencive kit, that you may only use twice, but you get what you pay for when its a tool you use often and rely on pay a higher price but be careful not to be just paying for the name.

[boatmadman]

I often look at the most expensive, compare with the cheapest, and buy somewhere between mid price and top price. I think the law of diminishing returns operates in things like this.

Ian

[HS93 (RIP)]

I put the links on to show what is available ,and as far as I am concerned what he would need to match the tools he has , I still think his best bet is a new set of handels and re grind, if he bought new chisels they are ground for general purpose so would have to be re ground for fine modeling use, my tools are from when I was an apprentice and are still going strong , I have bought some over the years, I bought a set of marpels chisels, as I have a set from the 60s and I wanted something that if my son picked it up to do a job I would not worry, the new ones are not a patch on the old ones for Finnish or keeping there edge, so ill stick to old stuff.

hs93

[DickyD]

Thats because Marples chisels aren't made by Marples anymore. I did the same thing, my first set were bought in 1963 and although shorter are going strong and keep their edge longer than the set I bought 20 years ago.
Most of the decent tool makers were bought out by large mass producing companies.

[HS93 (RIP)]

Yes they are  made by Irwin tools, I think they own record and a few others  rubbish, the wooden box they came in is made  better than the chisels.

Hs93

[Timo2]

Hi Ripslider  and All

   Good Chisels and wood cutting tools  by a old time company


      AT     http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/

  Timo2

  P.S.   Very old Toolshop owner ::)

[RipSlider]

Thanks for the advice re: chisels.

I'll take them an old fella in the village that I know - he has a proper grind stone set up in his shed.

Not sure they will be that easy to re-grind. I saw my dad batter the head off a 1/2" bolt using one of them. And the chisel won!


I was wondering about other tools:

knives ( tempted by Footprint still for these ), hammers, saws, spanners. A big one is files - I use files a lot for modelling - far more than sand paper - which I only use really for body filler - and tend to use metal files as they are a lot kinder to balsa and ply - and unlike and paper a quick whizz with a file card and they're good as new. My dad had a set of 1/2 sized engineers and farmers files which would have been brilliant to use for modelling, but I can't find anything of that size now. ( I lost the orignals in my last house move  ) Choice seems to be full sized enginners file or 6" needle files - I want something 1/2 way between the two.

Also power tools. I have been pointed in the direction of Ryobi by a couple of people, but others only say bad things about Ryobi.

The set of tools I'll looking for consist of - but isn't limited to:


Hammers ( small medium and large ) - ball pain, japanese, warrington, pin - maple or hickory handles.

chisels - 1/8", 1/4", 1/2" , 3/4" 1" 1 1/2"  - ferruled handles so I can give them a whack if needed

1x set enginners files , 1x set farmers files. Preferably 1/2 sized.

Set of good quality metric taps and dies plus drivers ( say M1 - M6 or similar )

GOOD set of posi- and straight head screw drivers - I've wrecked 3 sets already with all the DIY I'm doing - the points just seem to drive off them when your dealing with stubbon screws ledged in old wood - should really use a stud extractor but keep forgetting.

Good set of punches and automatic centre punch. ( can't seem to find a steel centre-punch which is actually small enough to use anywhere - another lost item in the last house move )

small impact screw driver

good set of sockets + handles ( apparently Stanley make good sockets )

good ( and accurate ) torque wrench ( going to need one if I put one or more of my bikes back together )

enginners vice - full sized with that lever that makes the wonderful "pop" noise when you over-tighten and releases the jaws ( guess how I used to drive the old man mad when I was younger??? )

micrometer

good quality analouge calipers

metric feeler gauge

smallish lathe - big enough to turn a 10cc piston or similar on - I have no real idea about this yet though.

decent electric drill - with selectable hammer action

pillar drill - small as possible but with a decent drop hieght - will only be for modelling

good quality drill bits ( in a wide range of imperial and metric )

"home use" sized bandsaw (also any advice you chaps have on good makes of blades for this is appreciated )


I know everything won't all be by the same maker, and I also know that it won't be cheap. But my preference is to buy one set of good stuff once, and only have to replace breakages rarely.

So, if you chaps have any recommendations for "best in show" in any of the items above, please let me have your experiences.

Steve

[Shipmate60]

That is one big selection.
While setting my lad up we bought middle range/cheap tools as an initial tool kit.
As soon as one tool broke or wore out we replaced with a half decent brand, mostly Halfords.
In using the tools for modelling unless buying specific modelling tools the working parameters are going to be well within the working range of most hand tools.
You could go and buy all Snap on Engineering tools but why when the tools will be completely understressed being used for modelling.

Bob

[Stavros]

As Bob says SNAP On, expensive yes but well worth the money.90% of my tools are Snap on as I make my living with them.The screwdrivers are worth their weight in gold,simply because they don't round off or break well worth the investment.Most of the baisic hand tools listed can be bought from snap on.



Stavros

[Tom@Crewe]

I though the Snap on myth would appear

[Shipmate60]

Why myth?

Bob

[DieselDo]

I couldnt agree more Tom.
Why my mates who own small garages use these tools is a mystery to me.
Why spend over 8 grand on a toolkit when thay could use disposable cheap Chinese produced tools?

[RipSlider]

Have to agree with the posts above - I've never rated Snap-On since a broke a handle of a hammer trying to bolster out an internal wall.

If it breaks so easily then I have no confidence in them - it's not like cutting brick is hard work for a hammer. I have strong doubts that there was much hickory in the hickory handle....


I think with Snap-On you pay for the name rather than the quality.

steve

[Shipmate60]

The lifetime guarantee comes in handy though.
But why would you wand the "best" tools such as 1mm tap, how often would you use it?

Bob

[RipSlider]

The issue isn't "how often would I use it" but more "When I want it it's there waiting for me, and will produce consistly high results"

1mm tap and 1mm die are useful things to have for making servo linkages ( cos I don't use z-bends - hang over from plane making ) so I an tap out connection whatsits and then thread the rod and everything fits well and snug.

The idea being that the tap/hammer/thingy is still going strong in 20-30-40 odd years. Buy once now so I don't have to buy again

Steve

[DickyD]

Just how long do you expect to live Steve ? :-\

[DieselDo]

RipSlider,
So a lifetime guarantee doesnt mean you will always have a decent tool for the job.
But of course those using the tools on a daily basis, who elect to pay the extreme prices and are happy with how they last and perform should listen to someone who has to ask on a Model Boat Forum about hand tools!!
So I wait with bated breath for your recommendation for what equipment I should be making my living with.

[DickyD]

Whoa DieselDo, backup, so far Steve has agreed with everything you said, so why have a go at him ?

[DieselDo]

As you can see I dont post much on here as I am fairly new to model boats.
I read a lot but dont have much to answer.
Shipmate and Stavros gave an opinion and the poster who was asking for an opinion plus 1 other rubbish it.
Why ask if you dont want the experience of those who use them.

[DickyD]

As you can see I dont post much on here as I am fairly new to model boats.
I read a lot but dont have much to answer.
Shipmate and Stavros gave an opinion and the poster who was asking for an opinion plus 1 other rubbish it.
Why ask if you dont want the experience of those who use them.

Actually it was the poster who was asking for the opinion plus 2 others who rubbished it and you were the second one. Read your first post.

[d-jnana]

Hi mate,
where to start. Personally the car boot sale has yielded some real gems. Other than that I look around for well known makes on good old e-bay spanners from King Dick, Britool, Facom, snap-on and so on. If you can make your on tools then you'll end up with the best in the world. Chisels for example can be made from a piece of mild steel and an alll hard hacksaw blade layed together, brazed, shapped roughly, heat treated then, ground, and handle fitted. The all hard blade provides the best cutting edge in existance with the support of the, now slightly springy, mild steel.
If that does not appeal then I would certainly try to find someone with a good quality wet stone grinder (tormek for example). I know if we didn't have one at school I'd have bought one years ago.  Probably worth investing in something like that to keep your final choice of tools in the best condition any way.
 good luck in the hunt
GARY


a word from the suffering wife!!!!!!   King Dick?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 i didnt think it was that kind of site otherwise i would'nt of let him join!

[Martin13]

As Bob says SNAP On, expensive yes but well worth the money.90% of my tools are Snap on as I make my living with them.The screwdrivers are worth their weight in gold,simply because they don't round off or break well worth the investment.Most of the BASIC hand tools listed can be bought from snap on.



Stavros

Steve,

In your original post you asked what are the best tools? Best will often incur a higher than average price. I suggest that you listen to the advice of people that use tools for their trade as these people use them ALL the time. Personally as an ex Aircraft Engineer, I used Snap-On and Facom  whenever possible and never had a tool fail. Many a time I needed to remove a screw that was corroded onto the airframe and the drivers never let me down. I remember one particular ratchet type driver with interchangeable tips, this tool had a terrific ratchet action and the majority of Engineers had one in their possession - any tool that has a life time guarantee is worth having.

Your list of tools is extensive - as a young lad I started off with a reasonable quality tool kit and as time went on (and some tools lost or nicked) the kit was added to on an "as required basis". Unless you have a Bottomless bank account, I suggest buy the tools you need now for modelling and DIY remembering to use the tools for what they were intended for and slowly build up your tool kit. When my father passed away, he left me all his tooling (fitter and turner) including his DIY, these tools were mainly manufactured in England and I would say they are as good as the day he purchased them and I know they will see me out also.

I love both power and hand tools and have an extensive collection but purchased over a 30 to 40 year period and to this day, I now only buy the odd tool for modelling purposes.

Remember, take note of your peers that use tools as a part of their trade - why, they use them extensively and don't buy rubbish....

Hope this has been of some help

Martin doon under

[GaryM]

I think that when ever you ask for an opinion on "what's best" you will get peeps that will swear by one product / manufacture and peeps who will say stay well clear.

At the end of the day your the one that knows 'how often', 'how hard' and 'what for'  the tools will be used.
The more expensive the tool ('usually') gives you an idea on the longevity and quality.

I would buy the simplest ones first IE Hammers, Files etc.

I bought a claw hammer from B&Q  (£4.50)  6 ish years ago - that's all I've used it for - hammering nails and extracting them - still works as good as the day I bought it!
As with many things produced nowadays there is a certain amount of "built in redundancy" so unless you go for the "best"  (you say that a middle ground is required) you will have to replace at intervals.

I would say buy the best you can afford - yes there is the element of marketing hype etc, but you will be here till the cows come home....

regards
Gary :)