Topic: Window motors (Read 7177 times)

AlanP · « **on:** December 04, 2008, 05:53:54 pm »

After parting with an arm and a leg to have two new window mechanisms fitted to the car,

I am left with the old ones that have good motors on them.
Has anyone used these motors in a boat

Alan

Bryan Young · « **Reply #1 on:** December 04, 2008, 06:05:30 pm »

These, plus seat motors, heater fan motors, wiper motors etc. are magic in a boat. The power produced is probably a tad excessive for the average model....but that is why you have a speed controller is it not? The advantage is that you can escape the unwanted attentions of a wayward model that appears to want to mate with you. Keep collecting them and use them whenever you can. BY.

portside II · « **Reply #2 on:** December 05, 2008, 01:07:26 am »

Hi Alan , i have fitted one of theose window motors in my barge . After a but of cutting away of the alloy around the motor shaft i simply fitted a piece of car fuel pipe over the worm gear shaft as a flexi joint .
High torque and low speed just right for powering my barge around with a 70mm prop and an all up weight of 6 12v 7ah batterys and a load of lead in the bilge,
it's heavy

.

daz

oldiron · « **Reply #3 on:** December 05, 2008, 01:15:00 am »

They're excellent and inexpensive. I use power seat motors. Lots of torque and cheap. Great for the tug I use in towing competitions.

John

AlanP · « **Reply #4 on:** December 05, 2008, 06:19:55 pm »

Got the motors out of the mechanism this afternoon and tried them on 12v with an ammeter, 3.75 amps with no load, didn't have a pair of stilstons (if thats how you spell it) handy to find out the stall current

I now know why Portside has all those batteries in his barge.

Like the barge, might have to build one now I have a motor.

Regards Alan

portside II · « **Reply #5 on:** December 05, 2008, 06:39:08 pm »

Alan, the batterys are just for ballast the barge needs all the weight just to bring her down to look about right .
On one 12v 7ah battery i can run her all day and for a few weekends without charging .
I will have to get an all up weight of it .
daz

oldiron · « **Reply #6 on:** December 05, 2008, 09:08:53 pm »

I tried my power seat motor for current draw. Its .26 Amps at 12v running free (no load). Under load ,holding the shaft with my hand, I can't stop the motor and the current draw at 15v is 1.1 Amps. I've pulled a 300lb person (not me) around in an aluminum row boat with no problem. On my competition tug I drive a 3 3/4" prop.

John

AlanP · « **Reply #7 on:** December 05, 2008, 10:45:19 pm »

I think I am going to have a visit to our local scrap merchant, nicknamed "Blair Sports"

and have a look at these here seat motors, perhaps I can swop a big cabbage from my allotment for one

Alan

Sandy Calder · « **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2008, 12:01:11 am »

As a trainee engineer I stall tested motors the size of your living room but I never had to resort to using pipe grips or dislocated a shoulder in the process.

At the same time current reading was taken,stall torque was measured by a set of scales.
The longer the lever arm the smaller the scales.
You can reduce the chance of motor burn out by reducing the voltage and multiplying the result as if it was tested on 12v.

The locked rotor method is fine for a.c. motors but you only obtain a ball park stall figure with dc motors.
Regards
Sandy Calder

portside II · « **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2008, 09:22:13 am »

Never tried a direct stall with these motors , but like John said the free running motor on 12v draws about .26 to .38A but under friction load (a towel wrapped around the motor shaft ,with the motor in the vice) i managed to draw nearly 2A , but i had to stop the experiment as the towel was starting to burn

During these tests the rpm dropped only slightly , and if i had a rev counter i could tell you what it is /was (thoughts on a car rev counter would it work) .
daz

norry · « **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2008, 10:02:51 am »

... Hi Guys...

Some models of Vauxhall cars have Buhler Motors on their electric windows...

...Best Regards...Norry...

derekwarner · « **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2008, 01:51:57 pm »

Hi.... these 12 Volt automobile motors [ventilation fan....or windscreen wiper] are super low in current draw & are continuously rated....the only issue is they are designed for singular direction

The EMF draws the rotor inwards when exited [output shaft drawn inward] , & the thrust is taken up by a single ball....as in a ball bearing within the shell to the rotating armature shaft

Having said this, these motors are totally reversible.....however when the excitation is reversed....the EMF applies a directional force so the output shaft thrust is out-by & the armature shaft loading on the singular ball bearing is negative - the result here can be an irregularity in motor speed at low RPM - the armature shaft has approx 0.3 mm longitudinal float

From memory....& by design....thrust is taken up when looking on the output shaft that is turning closkwise............................

...Derek

oldiron · « **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:16:10 pm »

Quote from: derekwarner_decoy on December 06, 2008, 01:51:57 pm

Hi.... these 12 Volt automobile motors [ventilation fan....or windscreen wiper] are super low in current draw & are continuously rated....the only issue is they are designed for singular direction

The EMF draws the rotor inwards when exited [output shaft drawn inward] , & the thrust is taken up by a single ball....as in a ball bearing within the shell to the rotating armature shaft

Having said this, these motors are totally reversible.....however when the excitation is reversed....the EMF applies a directional force so the output shaft thrust is out-by & the armature shaft loading on the singular ball bearing is negative - the result here can be an irregularity in motor speed at low RPM - the armature shaft has approx 0.3 mm longitudinal float

From memory....& by design....thrust is taken up when looking on the output shaft that is turning closkwise............................ ...Derek

Interesting info. Would this apply to seat motors too? I figured they would have to reverse to move the seat back and forth so the thrust would be the same in either direction, or is my line of thought off?

John

Sub driver · « **Reply #13 on:** December 06, 2008, 04:56:39 pm »

Hi,
I am looking for some low speed hi torque motors about 300rpm , anyone got any close up pics of these motors and the dimensions...also what make of vehicle are they fitted to ?

Regards SUb.

Bryan Young · « **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2008, 05:36:39 pm »

Quote from: AlanP on December 05, 2008, 10:45:19 pm

I think I am going to have a visit to our local scrap merchant, nicknamed "Blair Sports" and have a look at these here seat motors, perhaps I can swop a big cabbage from my allotment for one

Alan

Please be carefulwhere you go. Some of these "scrap-merchants" will charge you an arm and a leg for something that they got for less than free.
If you have a choice, go to a yard that allows you to remove the motor yourself. I wouldn't like to pay more than £5 for a top quality and clean motor. A previous answer by "Chipchase" had a warning here. If you get a "Smiths" fan motor make sure it is from a car, the ones fitted to commercial vehicles may not provide enough power. BY.

oldiron · « **Reply #15 on:** December 06, 2008, 05:48:02 pm »

Quote from: Sub driver on December 06, 2008, 04:56:39 pm

Hi,
I am looking for some low speed hi torque motors about 300rpm , anyone got any close up pics of these motors and the dimensions...also what make of vehicle are they fitted to ?

Regards SUb.

I don't know what specific vehicle they come from, however I would expect seat motors on any vehicle would have similar specifications. They do have tons of torque, and run smoothly slowly and very quietly.
The dimensions of the units I use are:
diameter: 1.875"
length: 4.5"
square shaft female opening: .125" square

I purchase them at a local surplus outlet for $10 a peice.

John

Sandy Calder · « **Reply #16 on:** December 06, 2008, 05:58:05 pm »

Quote from: oldiron on December 06, 2008, 04:16:10 pm

Quote from: derekwarner_decoy on December 06, 2008, 01:51:57 pm
Hi.... these 12 Volt automobile motors [ventilation fan....or windscreen wiper] are super low in current draw & are continuously rated....the only issue is they are designed for singular direction

The EMF draws the rotor inwards when exited [output shaft drawn inward] , & the thrust is taken up by a single ball....as in a ball bearing within the shell to the rotating armature shaft

Having said this, these motors are totally reversible.....however when the excitation is reversed....the EMF applies a directional force so the output shaft thrust is out-by & the armature shaft loading on the singular ball bearing is negative - the result here can be an irregularity in motor speed at low RPM - the armature shaft has approx 0.3 mm longitudinal float

From memory....& by design....thrust is taken up when looking on the output shaft that is turning closkwise............................ ...Derek

Interesting info. Would this apply to seat motors too? I figured they would have to reverse to move the seat back and forth so the thrust would be the same in either direction, or is my line of thought off?

John

The term "designed for singular rotation" has been misconstrued.It is not an issue and the motors are ideal for model boat use.
The motor has got an end bearing because the action of a worm gear or fan pushes the rotor inwards.

I really hate that term "low drain" when it is used as a sales pitch for motors.

Regards
Sandy Calder

Sub driver · « **Reply #17 on:** December 06, 2008, 07:10:37 pm »

Fantastic.

They look just right for what I have in mind...what vehicle were they off please .

A question though do they come with a gear train or worm drive ?

Think I will be delving into my local scrappers .

Many thanks for the info.
Regards Sub.

gingyer · « **Reply #18 on:** December 06, 2008, 07:49:52 pm »

A quick heads up guys;
don't tell the scrap yard what the motors for they sometimes put
up the price when you tell them for model boats

oldiron · « **Reply #19 on:** December 06, 2008, 08:52:53 pm »

Quote from: Sub driver on December 06, 2008, 07:10:37 pm

Fantastic.

They look just right for what I have in mind...what vehicle were they off please .

A question though do they come with a gear train or worm drive ?

Think I will be delving into my local scrappers .

Many thanks for the info.
Regards Sub.

I don't know what car they are off, but I suspect they will be very similar among the various cars. After all there isn't much difference in seats and their relative weights. I haven't seen the power seat motors with gear drives on them, but the power window motors have them. Try your local body shop too. I know they can be had by talking the right body man.....provided he isn't a model boater too.

John

Sandy Calder · « **Reply #20 on:** December 06, 2008, 09:17:02 pm »

If you go to the Mabuchi and Johnsonmotor website you will see things like "browse by application".
Their seat retract motors are all rated at 12 volts but they tend to use stronger magnets than the common model shop 500 and 600 size motors more suited to aircraft.That gives them the ability to direct drive larger props when used in model boats.

You can key in values here: http://www.specamotor.com/en/

Regards
Sandy Calder

Bryan Young · « **Reply #21 on:** December 07, 2008, 06:19:22 pm »

Another thing about seat motors with a square spring drive is that you don't need to buy any more couplings...just make up a home-made adaptor. Easy and cheap and very effective. BY.

AlanP · « **Reply #22 on:** December 07, 2008, 08:58:39 pm »

I was wondering about that, square drive to 4mm round, I don't suppose you would like to elaborate on that Bryan, I pic would be nice with a few simple words, just to give me a clue

Regards Alan

boatmadman · « **Reply #23 on:** December 07, 2008, 11:13:17 pm »

Get the file out Alan

oldiron · « **Reply #24 on:** December 08, 2008, 03:19:08 am »

Yup, a file works well, or you could put some 1/8" square stock into the motor and the other end into a universal joint. If you use a brass universal joint you can solder the brass square section into it. The brass rod will slide back and forth inside the motor connection allow for any minor end movement in the prop shaft.

John

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Author Topic: Window motors (Read 7177 times)

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AlanP