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[Inkmark]

Guys
Just had a conversation with MOVAC, the car paint supply people, and can't quite believe what I have been told.
MOVAC would not sell me a litre of acrylic silver because it is a dangerous substance and I am not an accredited car painter.
I pointed out I could buy as much acrylic or spirit based paints as I wanted at Halfords or B&Q but he was adamant on it.
He said the government had put the block on trade supplies selling paint to Joe Public, seems like either GB or Euro government has struck again.
If this is true then is it the tip of an iceburg, how long will it be until we cannot buy paint at all.
After all even tea is dangerous, too much and you can drown.
In that famous phrase, I don't believe it.
Any one else has a similar problem?
Mark

[DickyD]

This is presumably why you cant get Tamiya metallic acrylics any more.

[Stavros]

Brilliant news about time as well.The government have actually got it right for a change

Let me explain a few things to you on why it has been done,there are far to many so called mechanics and panel beatersout therte who buy write offs do them up in the back garden paint them and sell them off as good cars,and in effect most of them are death traps,it will also stop the lads in the body shops doing foreigners at home and believe you me as an ex Garage owner I am all for this.
What kills the garage trade in general is the lads doing foreigners at home so the garage will not get the work,BRILLIANT news as they will not be able to get paint to do the jobs,this has been on the cards for years bring it on I say



Stav

[The long Build]

I personally think that this is a Bad Idea , as the same could be said for any trade item Eg copper piping as you could be taking the trade away from a plumber, general paint as you are taking the trade away from a painter and decorator, I can understand where Stavros is coming from but at the end of the day if somebody in the trade wants to do a foreigner they will get the paint one way or another.

[Proteus]

Brilliant news about time as well.The government have actually got it right for a change

Let me explain a few things to you on why it has been done,there are far to many so called mechanics and panel beatersout therte who buy write offs do them up in the back garden paint them and sell them off as good cars,and in effect most of them are death traps,it will also stop the lads in the body shops doing foreigners at home and believe you me as an ex Garage owner I am all for this.
What kills the garage trade in general is the lads doing foreigners at home so the garage will not get the work,BRILLIANT news as they will not be able to get paint to do the jobs,this has been on the cards for years bring it on I say



Stav

so as you are a painter you should not be sold brake parts or wheel bearings then is that ok or any car repair parts that are not paint related

Proteus

[Subculture]

So you really think that if someone is nefarious enough to put out dodgy motors, that they're going to respect the law when it comes to obtaining paint?

[Proteus]

Its like the Number plate rules, I needed one for my wife's car walked in to my local motor factors and gave them the reg and they did it while I waited and no I was not in the car for them to check.I was supprised, as my mate had to hand over his log book and all sorts.

Proteus

[omra85]

Whilst I agree with Dave to a certain extent, the same could be said of almost anything.
As has been pointed out, the "shady" characters will always find a way round any law, it's usually the law-abiders who are the ones who feel morally obliged to obey whatever laws come out ie. the gun law (only effected bone-fide club members, the criminals can still pick a gun up for pennies).
Next we'll have the scratch builders banned because they are taking the trade off professional model kit manufacturers!
Danny
the over-cosseted!

[Stavros]

so as you are a painter you should not be sold brake parts or wheel bearings then is that ok or any car repair parts that are not paint related
Proteus

'I'm not sure that quite right' Proeteus  (moderated)   

[malcolmfrary]

It would be nice to have a pointer to the particular rule.  Until a link can be provided to a checkable source, it is quite likely a fiction to cover a restrictive practice, otherwise known as a lame excuse.

[Peter Fitness]

Judging from what was said in the original post, it would appear to me that any restriction on the sale of automotive paints to the general public would be on the grounds of safety, rather than stopping any threat, real or otherwise, to the motor repair trade.

Peter.

[DARLEK1]

This paint thing has been doing the rounds in the health and safety world for a while now, it is one reason Revell and Humbroll have brought out their own accrylics.
 We model making type chaps have to deal with that and stop slanging off who ever the newest target may be, if ya get me?

 Stuff happens, even if we don't like it, we just have to deal with it!

 Find something new that you can still get without Brussells getting in the way!

 Paul...

[The long Build]

Banning Brussels from general use would be a start.  and I don't mean those round greeney things..

[Proteus]

Stav

(moderated) what is wrong with stopping non qualified people access to brake and steering parts, its only the same as giving non trained access to paint..there was someone Jailed last year for modifying a land rover that lead to a accident..

Proteus

[Malcolm Reade]

This latest move suggests that Government/Brussels (whoever) pre-supposes that the car repair brigade are the only legitimate users of cellulose based spray paints?  (If that is what we are talking about here)?

If that is the case, there is going to be uproar when (say) control panel manufacturers are no longer able to paint their products.  What about steel office furniture (e.g filing cabinet) manufacturers?  Architectural steelwork manufacturers?  The list is endless, and not all products are powder coated.

I honestly can't see all of those industries turning to Humbrol acrylics    I'm also prepared to bet that as a legitimate Limited Liability Company, if I place a purchase order on my local paint supplier, it would be supplied without any problem?

I can remember a thread on the Forum a while back about a guy who had designed and built his own (potentially lethal) spray booth.  Truth is that volatile spray paints are probably best kept away from Joe Public, it's tough on the ones who know what they're doing, but kind to those who don't?

Malc

[BarryM]

Stav

(moderated) what is wrong with stopping non qualified people access to brake and steering parts, its only the same as giving non trained access to paint..there was someone Jailed last year for modifying a land rover that lead to a accident..

Proteus

and the 'someone' jailed was a mechanic!

Barry M

[Guy Bagley]

i recently bought paint, and 25 litres of cellulose thinners from a  suppliers trade counter, - there are also a multitude of industrial modelmakers out there who still buy and use cellulose,  two pack and other paints and solvent products for legitimate commercial use, - and we are not in the car painting business !
 we do however have fully certifcated and COSHH regualted spray booths and we are not ' fly by night' merchants with no care for safety or whatever.....

its the first time i have heard of this 'new ruling' but i will watch and wait to see what happens,

on the point stav just made i recently bought a car at auction, with painted front bumper- this had at some stage had an impact, the bumper was cracked and the fog light had been damaged,  and one small bit of trim was missing.... the local body shop/ accident repair palce wanted £1100 for the repairs...

i decided i could do the job .... I bought the bumper, fog lights, trim, paint and all parts for £400 and i painted them myself...... yes it took my time but this basically is only a bolt on moulding, - some body shops think we are all made of money and us drivers are there to be  ripped off !- i cant see why legitimate honest, decent people cant buy the products they want from decent legimate trade suppliers, why does brussels think they know best ?

and as stav does point out stopping the 'cut n shutters'  from buying paint will only mean it all goes 'underground' - and it will send illegal sales of paint and supplies through the roof....they will still sell dodgy  deathtrap cars....

[Proteus]

[/quote]




and the 'someone' jailed was a mechanic!

Barry M
[/quote]

He was not a trained Mechanic Just another who thought he was.

Proteus

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/4323665/Father-Nigel-Gresham-jailed-after-Land-Rover-crash-killed-his-four-children.html

[BarryM]

Must have gone through the same training as the 'mechanics' in Coronation Street and Emmerdale.

Cheers,

Barry M

[Colin Bishop]

There are plenty of volatile and potentially dangerous chemical products available in any yacht chandler including two pack paints etc. I can't see those being banned otherwise people would be unable to maintain their boats.

All this increased regulation is encouraging people not to take responsibility for their own actions which probably ultimately defeats the object as they cease to understand what is potentially dangerous and what isn't.

Colin

[Inkmark]

Hi Guys,
Quite a hornets nest here.
I have been on to MOVAC again and they have a policy of not supplying the public.
The only answer I can get is the universal health and safety nonsense but I do feel it is a bit of protectionism.
I cannot track a piece of legilastion that prevents the sale to the public so it may just be a put-off by MOVAC.
If you want a minor repair on your car you could be forced to go to the trade rather than do it yourself because of the colour match.
I have just purchased 10 litres of anti foul for my 1:1 scale boat with no H&S problems, and as you all know that is more toxic than a litre of silver acrylic.
I will try other paint suppliers in the near future and see what happens, but if they all stick together painting cars could be a thing of the past.
I get what Stavros says about the criminal element but you can still go to Halfords and get a few spray cans, there will always be a way.
Keep you posted.
Mark

[Circlip]

Bet the main agents still sell touch up cans.     Didn't know that acrylics were Cellulose based??  So if a car has been sprayed up with "Propper" paint it's been repaired "Propperly"      Hmmm, Wada ya know.

   Regards  Ian.

[knoby]

Hi Inkmark,
i think you are going to find problems with the other paint suppliers also. over the last 2 years the powers that be have really tightened up on the enforcement of the health & safety laws with regards to paint supplies. In the mid 1990's Brussels (well Germany really) introduced the coshh (control of substances hazardous to health ) laws, which had particular affect on spray painting. As usual most of the UK ignored the ruling, however, the last 2 years have seen a major clamp down on the suppliers & manufactures.
Most suppliers are required to take reasonable precautions to ensure that they only supply to registered users, so are not willing to sell to the general public.
Or to put it another way, they make sure the cant get their asses sued off by someone using the products they supplied & causing harm with them.
The reason you can still buy aerosols from halfords etc, is because it is considered that the amount of voc ( volatile organic compound) contained in 1 aerosol is insignificant, & most people don't buy these in enough quantity to cause a problem.
As from the beginning of 2009 it has been illegal for paint companies to manufacture 2 pack paint as it used to be. There are still some 2 packs available but these have to
manufactured to complie to new legislation & only contain small amounts of voc. also the solvent content of all paints had had to be significantly reduced.
There are several loop holes in this legislation which are being exploited by both manufactures & suppliers, but the net is closing & soon it will be almost impossible to get around the legislation.
Ask our many mayhemmers on the continent how easy it is to purchase these type of products in their countries & you will see how lax the laws have been applied here.

Just as a thought, try going to your local body shop & asking if you can purchase some paint from them. I 'd try the smaller independent ones , not the big main dealer ones, & remember to say the magic four letter word  CASH, you will be surprised what doors that word opens in the motor trade lol.

Cheers Glenn

[Peter Fitness]

All this increased regulation is encouraging people not to take responsibility for their own actions which probably ultimately defeats the object as they cease to understand what is potentially dangerous and what isn't.

Well said, Colin, I totally agree. 

Peter.

[cbr900]

Unlike you guys there is no EEC over here and we can buy whatever paint we choose,
Acrylic is dirt cheap here in Tasmania, you can buy it in tins from 100ml to 200 litres..



Roy