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[OMK]

Well, send one this way. It'll be gratefully appreciated... promise! 

[davidm1945]

Hi all,
    You may or may not know that Saturday 27 June 2009 is Armed Forces Day in the UK. We are all encouraged to fly the flag to support our troops around the world.
More info on the Royal Navy website or follow the link below.

All the best.
          Dave.


http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/rn-live/article/thousands-of-flags-to-fly-for/*/changeNav/6568

Sorry, this link doesn't seem to work although I have checked it several times. Just put "armed forces day flag" into your browser!

[Malcolm Reade]

Thank you DickyD.   I presumed you knew Malc

I do know, (it would be appalling if I didn't).  I just wondered how everybody else would explain it?

Malc

[steamboatmodel]

arrow5

Kindly explain to the Forum how one can tell when the Union Flag is flown upside down please?

Regards

Malc

On Wikipedia inder "Union jack" I found the following:
"The flag does not have reflectional symmetry, due to the slight pinwheeling of St Patrick's cross, which is technically called the counterchange of saltires. Thus, it has a right side and a wrong side up. To fly the flag the correct way up, the broad portion of the white cross of St Andrew should be above the red band of St Patrick (and the thin white portion below) in the upper hoist canton (the corner at the top nearest to the flag-pole), giving the Scottish symbol precedence over the Irish symbol. This is expressed by the phrases wide white top and broad side up. Traditionally, flying a flag upside down is understood as a distress signal. In the case of the Union Flag, the difference is so subtle as to be easily missed by many."
I had learned the "wide white top and broad side up" when younger, and spend a lot of time pointing out at various events the Royal Union Jack being flown upside down. One of the advantages is our provincial flag has the Union flag on it.

Regards,
Gerald.
PS what flag do civilian vessels in the UK fly?

[Arrow5]

Thank you Steamboat, In answer to the "civilian" flag question I`ll leave that to the experts (cue MAlcolm !) but the Red Ensign is the most common for commercial shipping. By the way , the Union Flag is not a "royal" flag but the United Kingdom`s national flag. All the "Royals" have their own flag.

[davidm1945]

Hi all,
    You may or may not know that Saturday 27 June 2009 is Armed Forces Day in the UK. We are all encouraged to fly the flag to support our troops around the world.
More info on the Royal Navy website or follow the link below.

All the best.
          Dave.


http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/rn-live/article/thousands-of-flags-to-fly-for/*/changeNav/6568

Sorry, this link doesn't seem to work although I have checked it several times. Just put "armed forces day flag" into your browser!

Link was not working yesterday but now seems to be OK.

[Bee]

On flags that have a load of little stars on them (as opposed to the Ghanaian which has one nice big one) do they just get scattered about or do they have to be in a special arrangement that you all learn at school?

[Bryan Young]

arrow5

Kindly explain to the Forum how one can tell when the Union Flag is flown upside down please?

Regards

Malc

On Wikipedia inder "Union jack" I found the following:
"The flag does not have reflectional symmetry, due to the slight pinwheeling of St Patrick's cross, which is technically called the counterchange of saltires. Thus, it has a right side and a wrong side up. To fly the flag the correct way up, the broad portion of the white cross of St Andrew should be above the red band of St Patrick (and the thin white portion below) in the upper hoist canton (the corner at the top nearest to the flag-pole), giving the Scottish symbol precedence over the Irish symbol. This is expressed by the phrases wide white top and broad side up. Traditionally, flying a flag upside down is understood as a distress signal. In the case of the Union Flag, the difference is so subtle as to be easily missed by many."
I had learned the "wide white top and broad side up" when younger, and spend a lot of time pointing out at various events the Royal Union Jack being flown upside down. One of the advantages is our provincial flag has the Union flag on it.

Regards,
Gerald.
PS what flag do civilian vessels in the UK fly?

As an ensign, the Red ensign...or the Blue one. The Red, White and Blue ensigns have a history that is too long to go into here.
But basically there were 3 Fleets. (Obviously the Red, the White and the Blue). All 3 have the Union Flag in the top quadrant (the bit next to the flagpole). Others have variations as to livery etc, but the 3 base ones remain. A British ship entering a foreign port should really show the National flag as a "courtesy flag". Time after time I have observed "foreign" ships coming into a British port flying the Red ensign as a courtesy flag. This is wrong. They should be flying the Union flag. But nobody seems to give a rats these days. BY.

[polaris]

Dear Bryan,

I think this is due to the fact that this wretched Country is so damn afraid of being PC that the Authorities are afraid of 'correcting' things in case they offend anybody. Those flying the flag in such a way are most likely in many cases doing their best in what they think is right, and probably would not take offence if corrected... so who is going to make the first move? Pity, as all would like to see it right, but one side is too weak to point it out!

Regards, Bernard

[funtimefrankie]

Isn't it illegal for a British ship/boat to fly the Union Flag ?
except warships.

[polaris]

Dear Funtime,

If by Union Flag you mean the Union Jack, the answer is yes, they can be flown on British vessels. With merchant vessels they have been/can be/& are flown on masts other than the main jack staffs. As to the St Georges' Cross I am not certain, but I am sure someone on Mayhem will enlighten us. Any British citizen has the right to fly the Union Jack... it is the National/Nations Flag after all. As to what Local councils think, well, they are scared stiff of breaching PC and 'offending'... you know, I wonder what would happen in some other countries if some local council was to prevent the National flag to be flown... there would be hell on - and patriotic riots! GB has got itself into such a mess, I just wonder how it's going to get out of the mire...?

Regards, Bernard

[Shipmate60]

Warships fly the Blue Ensign, Merchant vessels the Red Ensign.
All vessels fly a courtesy flag of the country they are visiting.

Bob

[DickyD]

Warships fly the Blue Ensign, Merchant vessels the Red Ensign.
All vessels fly a courtesy flag of the country they are visiting.

Bob

So who flies the White Ensign then Bob ?  

Are you back from your Carribean holiday now ?

[Shipmate60]

OOPS should have put WHITE ENSIGN for Naval Ships, must be getting dafter in my old age.
Blue Ensign is for Auxiliaries ie RFA

Bob

[DickyD]

OOPS should have put WHITE ENSIGN for Naval Ships, must be getting dafter in my old age.
Blue Ensign is for Auxiliaries ie RFA

Bob

Too much sun mate.

[polaris]

Maybe this is a sign of the times, and maybe it's because I am a getting a grumpy GB citizen I don't know (!), but I think the below is sad in numerous ways. Maybe it's a conditioning that, whilst some are immune to it, others just slip into the 'conditioning'? 'Divide & Conquer' has been a true saying from Roman times/usage: if you can't beat a Nation one way, all you have to do is play on 'local' issues and then you have the whole Nation open by divide. The only way to keep GB 'Great' is for all to want it to be so? If some want to divide, well, what will happen I wonder.............. The division of GB seems to be a surreptitious intent of 'unknowns', and, slowly, and surely, it is being achieved.......

We have Scottish Nationalists, and Welsh Nationalists. I have no problem with this, but we must all be 'one'. If not, we will get the likes of the BNP taking advantage of the situation, since, why should not the England have such as the BNP? I hastily add that, while I a not a BNP supporter, I do however agree with somethings they have to say, and if I think this, well, others less open thinking spirits my well go into this direction. At the end of the day, there is no problem with Scotland, Wales, Ireland & Cornwall wanting more say in their areas, but, it is vital to keep the integrity of GB together. The younger members of our Societies are not being made aware of the importance of this in a balanced way, and I consider this a pity, since, who knows where it might lead in the end.

Regards, Bernard

Speaking of national anthems, this might give you a laugh....

Last year Hannah went to see a play in england and God save the queen was played,
Everybody stood up and Hannah asked us "why we were all standing",
Angie replied "this is the national anthem"......


Hannah then said in quite a loud voice "no it isn't!!!" Much to the amusement/bemusement of every one around us, I couldn't stop giggling and had to explain to the elderly couple next to us that we are from Wales and Hannah only knows the Welsh anthem....

Mark.

[funtimefrankie]

Dear Funtime,

If by Union Flag you mean the Union Jack, the answer is yes, they can be flown on British vessels. With merchant vessels they have been/can be/& are flown on masts other than the main jack staffs. As to the St Georges' Cross I am not certain, but I am sure someone on Mayhem will enlighten us. Any British citizen has the right to fly the Union Jack... it is the National/Nations Flag after all. As to what Local councils think, well, they are scared stiff of breaching PC and 'offending'... you know, I wonder what would happen in some other countries if some local council was to prevent the National flag to be flown... there would be hell on - and patriotic riots! GB has got itself into such a mess, I just wonder how it's going to get out of the mire...?

Regards, Bernard

Thanks for clearing that up, I was sure I had read that only the Pilot Jack, the Union Flag surounded with a white border could be flow on a ship/boat.

Of course I knew that a Union Flag can be flow on land, although the flag pole might require planning permission.

[DickyD]

Maybe this is a sign of the times, and maybe it's because I am a getting a grumpy GB citizen I don't know (!), but I think the below is sad in numerous ways. Maybe it's a conditioning that, whilst some are immune to it, others just slip into the 'conditioning'? 'Divide & Conquer' has been a true saying from Roman times/usage: if you can't beat a Nation one way, all you have to do is play on 'local' issues and then you have the whole Nation open by divide. The only way to keep GB 'Great' is for all to want it to be so? If some want to divide, well, what will happen I wonder.............. The division of GB seems to be a surreptitious intent of 'unknowns', and, slowly, and surely, it is being achieved.......

We have Scottish Nationalists, and Welsh Nationalists. I have no problem with this, but we must all be 'one'. If not, we will get the likes of the BNP taking advantage of the situation, since, why should not the England have such as the BNP? I hastily add that, while I a not a BNP supporter, I do however agree with somethings they have to say, and if I think this, well, others less open thinking spirits my well go into this direction. At the end of the day, there is no problem with Scotland, Wales, Ireland & Cornwall wanting more say in their areas, but, it is vital to keep the integrity of GB together. The younger members of our Societies are not being made aware of the importance of this in a balanced way, and I consider this a pity, since, who knows where it might lead in the end.

Regards, Bernard

Speaking of national anthems, this might give you a laugh....

Last year Hannah went to see a play in england and God save the queen was played,
Everybody stood up and Hannah asked us "why we were all standing",
Angie replied "this is the national anthem"......


Hannah then said in quite a loud voice "no it isn't!!!" Much to the amusement/bemusement of every one around us, I couldn't stop giggling and had to explain to the elderly couple next to us that we are from Wales and Hannah only knows the Welsh anthem....

Mark.

I'm with you Bernard although not quite so grumpy. 

[polaris]

Dear Bob,

You have been on the XXXX again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was wondering where you were coming from!!!

Hope you keep well,

Best Wishes, Bernard

[polaris]

To save two separate Posts I reply in one.

Dear Dicky,

I was not trying to 'make a point' at anyone's expense, I was just making what I hope would be viewed as a balanced observation. I know I jump up and down sometimes, I just speak my mind that's all, and mostly say exactly what I think - particularly in writing. I firmly believe that things must change in GB, and I firmly believe that the current Political situation/setup is not conducive for proper Govt.. The Social 'divide' created by Political Parties on all sections of Society is retrograde these days, and we would all be better off if an MP was chosen and supported on the merit of his/her performance for any given Constituency (& be got rid of if they don't perform I add). The days of the 'us/them' (Labour/Conservative politics), are dead, we are at the dawn of a brave new age... and, we, the basic Electorate, must be very careful now... there must be no 'sides', just the good of GB. Just my thoughts.

I do apologise to the originator of this Topic... it has been slightly hijacked...

Regards, Bernard

----------------------------------

Dear Funtime,

Quite correct re the Pilot Flag, but it is a Signal Flag - sometimes with an 'initial' signal flag above to indicate which Pilot. As to land staffs, unfortunately you are right. However, the County Council around here had an innovative and VG County Councillor (now sadly prematurely demised), who achieved all villages to have a staff for the Red Dragon to be flown on, and I fully supported this... it was a nice touch... though since his demise new flags have not been placed in some areas were they have been worn (though some public spirited individuals in some areas have replaced them). I am still not certain about the St Georges' Flag though, can someone advise?

Regards, Bernard

[steamboatmodel]

Thank you Steamboat, In answer to the "civilian" flag question I`ll leave that to the experts (cue MAlcolm !) but the Red Ensign is the most common for commercial shipping. By the way , the Union Flag is not a "royal" flag but the United Kingdom`s national flag. All the "Royals" have their own flag.

In Canada the Union Jack is known as the Royal Union Flag
In Canada, the Royal Union Flag is flown on specified days from federal buildings, airports, warships, military bases and other government buildings on the following days:

Commonwealth Day (second Monday in March)
Victoria Day- the official birthday of the monarch (the Monday on or preceding 24 May)
11 December- the anniversary of the proclamation of the Statute of Westminster 1931
The flag is only flown in addition to the Canadian national flag, where physical arrangements allow (e.g., when there is more than one flag pole).
Regards,
Gerald.

[Marks Model Bits]

Maybe this is a sign of the times, and maybe it's because I am a getting a grumpy GB citizen I don't know (!), but I think the below is sad in numerous ways. Maybe it's a conditioning that, whilst some are immune to it, others just slip into the 'conditioning'? 'Divide & Conquer' has been a true saying from Roman times/usage: if you can't beat a Nation one way, all you have to do is play on 'local' issues and then you have the whole Nation open by divide. The only way to keep GB 'Great' is for all to want it to be so? If some want to divide, well, what will happen I wonder.............. The division of GB seems to be a surreptitious intent of 'unknowns', and, slowly, and surely, it is being achieved.......

We have Scottish Nationalists, and Welsh Nationalists. I have no problem with this, but we must all be 'one'. If not, we will get the likes of the BNP taking advantage of the situation, since, why should not the England have such as the BNP? I hastily add that, while I a not a BNP supporter, I do however agree with somethings they have to say, and if I think this, well, others less open thinking spirits my well go into this direction. At the end of the day, there is no problem with Scotland, Wales, Ireland & Cornwall wanting more say in their areas, but, it is vital to keep the integrity of GB together. The younger members of our Societies are not being made aware of the importance of this in a balanced way, and I consider this a pity, since, who knows where it might lead in the end.

Regards, Bernard

Speaking of national anthems, this might give you a laugh....

Last year Hannah went to see a play in england and God save the queen was played,
Everybody stood up and Hannah asked us "why we were all standing",
Angie replied "this is the national anthem"......


Hannah then said in quite a loud voice "no it isn't!!!" Much to the amusement/bemusement of every one around us, I couldn't stop giggling and had to explain to the elderly couple next to us that we are from Wales and Hannah only knows the Welsh anthem....

Mark.

This was only posted as a light hearted bit of fun.... Why take it all so seriously?????

Wish I hadn't bothered now!!

Goodbye.

[polaris]

Dear Mustang,

Let me put this right immediately and straight away.

What I said was not intended as any slight on you/yours at all, it was - as said - just a gnrl. thing and my overall thinking. I am glad indeed that you Posted what you did, since, without input, how can things be discussed properly and resolutions sought? My point is that thinking must change, it has to, and we must all be part of it to achieve a common goal... a correct Govt. of our whole Country to the benefit of all. Saying nothing, I have had two 'meetings' with two MP's today, and the consensus is that in principal my gnrl. thinking is not very far removed from theirs. It's the Party divides that are causing the problem (if only they could all work together), but, if all were singing from the same sheet maybe what a better World we would all live in?????????

Again, please do not take any offence, in principal what you said is indeed quite right, but it's the general overall picture that is very important.

Kind Regards, Bernard

[tolnedra]

Dear Bernard,

The term Union Flag is correct, not Union Jack. It may have passed into general usage, but the Union Flag is only a Union Jack when flown from the Jackstaff of a British man -of-war. Sorry to be pedantic, but you were correcting someone incorrectly!

Danny (ex RN)

[Bryan Young]

Dear Funtime,

If by Union Flag you mean the Union Jack, the answer is yes, they can be flown on British vessels. With merchant vessels they have been/can be/& are flown on masts other than the main jack staffs. As to the St Georges' Cross I am not certain, but I am sure someone on Mayhem will enlighten us. Any British citizen has the right to fly the Union Jack... it is the National/Nations Flag after all. As to what Local councils think, well, they are scared stiff of breaching PC and 'offending'... you know, I wonder what would happen in some other countries if some local council was to prevent the National flag to be flown... there would be hell on - and patriotic riots! GB has got itself into such a mess, I just wonder how it's going to get out of the mire...?

Regards, Bernard

What on earth are you on about! The Union Flag is the flag of the United Kingdom. The only time it's called the "Union Jack" is when it's flown from the Jackstaff of an RN vessel. I reckon that the moniker "Union Jack" is used is because it "rings" better than "Union Flag". BY.