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[Pointy]

Not having a good day

The Scharnhorst has three motors installed but internal access is poor. I've got 4, 6v 4amp batteries to wire up to an Action p94 Esc/ mixer and a tiny digital reciever for the Spekrum Dx5e. One of the motors has to have reverse wires as it has to run counter to the other two.

Wired up the lot and followed instructions for setting up the Spekrum. Nothing. Well the transmitter just flashes a single red light at me and goes "beep" I've had "beep" for bleedin' hours no matter what I tried. After looking over evething discovered that part of the printed circuit board on the back of the P94 has burnt. Wonderful, good bye £80 quid. Sick as a dog. I have re-wired and have found two old M3 sonik Esc, (they look alot like the viper range of Esc) Going to take the Spekrum back tomorrow to the shop and ask if I can swap it for an old fashioned Futaba type?

Any advice?

 

[Tug-Kenny RIP]

A lot of connecting up there.

Did you try any of the system before wiring it in the boat?   

ie; Just the radio with a servo to make sure it was working first.

To create burns on a circuit board indicates high current, so wiring must be suspected there. Multiple batteries also ring alarm bells.

Any pictures ?

Best of luck,

ken

[andygh]

Don't let your £80 go down the drain, I'm sure FLJ will be able to do a repair or summat. I agree, it sounds like a wiring problem

[Pointy]

I've tested the wiring by connecting the batteries to the motors and they run okay, even got the outer prop to turn counter as it should. Think I had the motors wired up wrong before as they have black and red wires while other items have yellow and blue, even brown and orange!!! The old Esc seem to work as they light up but still no joy with the radio....beep beep beep I'm going nuts, this has taken most of a precious day off work. Don't have a way of posting a pic, sorry and thanks for trying to help me. FLJ has very kindly advised me to send the P94 in for repairs but I don't see the point- will ruin it again I'm sure and the old Esc I've found seem to be working. The model cost me over £800 and have already spent over £200 for electronics, parts to improve look of model etc..   Just can't afford to spend anymore on it (or anything come to that!) right now. Heck I still haven't figured out how to transport it yet!

What on earth am I doing/was I thinking?!

[omra85]

Pointy, have you 'lnked' your receiver to your transmitter?  A flashing red light means it can't find a channel (on a Futaba 2.4).
I believe you use a "link pin" on the Spektrum. Try it with just one servo as suggested.
Danny

[DickyD]

When I wired my Sentinel with Daves goodies, all £100ish pounds worth, I emailed Dave a photo of the wiring before I connected anything to the batteries and he gave me the go ahead after he'd checked them.

Coloured blind electricians are not good.

All worked out fine.

Just an idea. Good luck.

[andrewh]

Pointy

Sorry about your troubles

It was nothing to do with the motor wiring - whatever colour motor wires are they are the same - can't be wrong

Did you, as others have said have the radio link working before putting it in the boat?   You must see this in action (and at the reccommended voltage into the reciever) before going any further - one servo, one 4.8 or 6V battery (whatever the receiver needs)  Make sure the servo waggles in each channel of the receiver.
As
Danny said you may have to bond the Tx to the Rx - following the instructions
Don't regret the Gigglehurts purchase - when it is working you will rejoice forever
 I suspect its "wisdom-of-hindsight" now but it is always a good idea to check each piece before linking it all up

Why 4 batteries - is that for balance, or capacity?  and what voltage are you driving the whole boat at?  6V?

Again in hindsight it would have been better to use only one 6V battery - unless they are alll necessary?
andrew

[Ghost in the shell]

PM Pointy.

oh I think the P94 is designed for use off 4 cells only

[andyn]

A slow blink on a Spektrum AR500 means bound and working.

[Pointy]

Thanks guys, don't think problem is binding, like instructions sais I get a steady amber light and a flash from all lights on transmitter while holding training switch. Its what happens afterwards- just a red light on transmitter and "beep beep beep" like blinking sputnik.  

The four batteries are needed for ballast I guess? Have to link them up parallel in pairs. Wiring diagram in Graupner instructions is a little confusing to me. Strange had none of these problems with the Prinz.

[Ghost in the shell]

does this help?

also check to see TX battery is charge, they beep quite angrily (as you describe) when battery is low

[Ghost in the shell]

on the P94 diagram provided by Action, the centre esc is off the P94, however by doing it as I put up means you can cruise on 1, 2 or all 3 motors, allowing you to cruise around on one motor, and when you want to chase, use the other stick for the p94.

not right, not wrong, just a different way of doing it

[OMK]

Hey, Pointy, I don't wish to teach you to suck eggs but you might wanna rethink about your batteries? You mentioned connecting them in parallel. It's a nice, convenient way of doing things but might ultimately be bad for them. Like I said, not trying to tell you how to wipe your own nose or such, you probably know this already, but if one battery should lose its charge faster the others, means the weaker battery will start sapping juice from the stronger ones. The extra drain on the stronger ones usually leads to all sorts of unwanted antics.
Mind if I make a suggestion?
If I'm on the right track, and from what you're saying (re: ballast, etc.), it seems you got no option other than to have them paralled. So a possible remedy to counter the voltage imbalance would be to stick a diode Anode in series with each positive terminal of each battery and connect all the Cathodes together. They prevent the weaker battery sapping from the stronger ones because they only let the voltage out - not in. The downside to doing it this way means you loose a bit of V across each diode. Another snag is that you have to remove/by-pass them when the batt's need recharging. A 10A Schottky diode might be a good choice, if you can handle the snags.

Bummer to hear of your P94 getting fried.

[riggers24]

Pointy,

Have a look at the set up I have taken from ACTion's website. Is this the way you have wired up the model?

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Thanks guys, don't think problem is binding, like instructions sais I get a steady amber light and a flash from all lights on transmitter while holding training switch. Its what happens afterwards- just a red light on transmitter and "beep beep beep" like blinking sputnik.  

The four batteries are needed for ballast I guess? Have to link them up parallel in pairs. Wiring diagram in Graupner instructions is a little confusing to me. Strange had none of these problems with the Prinz.

I think it is supposed to "beep" like sputnik until the binding process is completed...

In the past it was a rule to never wire Ni-cads in parallel... to my knowledge, gel cells have never been that fussy.

[over_powered84]

Wired up the lot and followed instructions for setting up the Spekrum. Nothing. Well the transmitter just flashes a single red light at me and goes "beep" I've had "beep" for bleedin' hours no matter what I tried.

Have You Tried Fresh Batts In Transmitter....Single Red Light Is A Low Battery
"Beep" Wont Allow ANYTHING To Be Done Otherwise

[over_powered84]

A slow blink on a Spektrum AR500 means bound and working.

Sorry bud But This Is Wrong...It Means Your Tx Has Been Turned Of Without Turning Of The RX Also... so with rx still getting power(even though not showing its light), when you turn tx back on its always going to flash red and a chance of losing that bind...Its the rx giving you that warning
the DX6I and AR6000 rx do the same
its old school with added safety
boat in water turn tx on 1st then rx
boat ready to come out of water... rx off 1st and then tx

[barriew]

Sorry bud But This Is Wrong...It Means Your Tx Has Been Turned Of Without Turning Of The RX Also... so with rx still getting power(even though not showing its light), when you turn tx back on its always going to flash red and a chance of losing that bind...Its the rx giving you that warning
the DX6I and AR6000 rx do the same
its old school with added safety
boat in water turn tx on 1st then rx
boat ready to come out of water... rx off 1st and then tx

True for most systems, but the DX5e instructions specifically state it is not important which sequence you power up the Tx and Rx.

If you only have a Red light on your Tx, then your Tx batteries are either flat or inserted incorrectly.

Barrie

[FullLeatherJacket]

http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/Pointy%20Thing.pdf

[Pointy]

Hi guys,

A huge thank you to everyone, especially Ghost and FLJ.

FLJ, your bottom diagram is almost exactly what happend but damage was very extensive to p94 :-< The reason for 4 separate batteries is not just ballast but access. The access to the models interior is very very limited, infact I would not recommend this model to anyone due to it. I have been doing wiring on the outside before I fitted anything inside. I am at a complete loss as to how its going to fit in. The motors have been fitted almost mid way in the hull so first pair of batteries have to be fitted jammed up next to motors.

Thanks to Ghost have figured out beeping was lack of charge in transmitter batteries. Have got it working now but still had nothing working. Discovered that I had the wires from Esc and servo plugged in the wrong way round in the receiver. Normally plugs have a flange to prevent this error but had to file these off to make them fit the receiver! Well everything seems to be working- out side of the hull at least. Very worried about what PMK sais about one battery charging another but what choice do I have?- doubt I can fit current electronics inside the hull let alone even more stuff.

[Ghost in the shell]

Thanks to Ghost have figured out beeping was lack of charge in transmitter batteries. Have got it working now but still had nothing working. Discovered that I had the wires from Esc and servo plugged in the wrong way round in the receiver. Normally plugs have a flange to prevent this error but had to file these off to make them fit the receiver! Well everything seems to be working- out side of the hull at least. Very worried about what PMK sais about one battery charging another but what choice do I have?- doubt I can fit current electronics inside the hull let alone even more stuff.

having the wires done the wrong way on the servo lead, I have done that and it can be frustraiting.  As for the running of batteries in parrallel, it is no real issue, and done commonly the world over.  I think you will be fine running the batteries in parrallel, I do with the najade using 2x ni-mh packs.

[DickyD]

I've been running my Scheutze minesweeper for the last two years using two 9.6V 4300mAh ni-mh batteries wired in parallel no problem.

[Pointy]

Well I squeezed everything in the hull- connected the power and.......nothing happend its gone dead.

Took everything out checked out the connections and everything is as it was before I put it in the hull but now don't even have led lights on the escs.

  Want to chuck the whole thing out the window, its driving me crazy!!!!

What should I do, start from scratch with new wiring/electronic parts from Action? Or try something else?

[DickyD]

Pointy can you get it out again and connect it all up and take some photos so we can see what you have done ?

[Tug-Kenny RIP]

What Dicky says is a good idea.

My reaction to all this is there must be a short when inside it's inside the boat.

Are the motor cases earthed ? Is there any bare wiring (or end connectors) touching metal anywhere ?

Try the set up on the bench with ONE battery. If OK then fit it inside the boat and test again with just one battery.  (are we to assume the P94 is not being used now and that you have reverted to separate ESC's)

Don't give up ...................... it's a great hobby ...........

ken


ps  Just re-read your post. Seems the wiring to the esc's is reversed or else you've blown the supply line fuse ..................... you do have one, don't you

ken