Topic: My first boat - splitting apart? (Read 12589 times)

Nordlys · « **on:** August 30, 2012, 05:33:09 pm »

Hello all repair experts (I hope)

My beloved first boat -Fireboat - is starting to come apart at the seams

[IMG]
after sailing over the summer.
I hope the pictures show the damage clear enough.
How do I go about sorting out this deterioration in the seams / joints?
I have neglected to pay attention to routine maintenance so it seems.

Any advice would be most welcome and helpful.
Nordlys

mickyrubble · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2012, 06:48:51 pm »

Hi Nordlys
Can you recall what type of ply the hull was built from.If it was interior grade ply best thing would be to glue the laminations back together with water resistant PVA and clamp until dry.It seams to be delaminating where the paint has been chipped ,best to repaint once repaired.
I would be very reluctant to wet it again if its interior or poor quality exterior,would be better to repair and display only..
How about covering the outside with fibreglass tissue,sand smooth and then repaint.
Hope this is of some use to you.
Mickyrubble

Subculture · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2012, 07:49:04 pm »

It would mean quite a bit of work, but if you wanted to continue to use the boat, you could cut back the paint, get some epoxy resin and very thin cloth, and cover the hull in that. It will outlast you then!

Nordlys · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2012, 08:04:32 pm »

This is the boat in better times -not perfect, just better.!

I don't know what type of ply the boat was constructed from - I haven't owned it from day one
but it was my first dabble in to model boating.
I would like to have it available to run rather than just as a display model but you may be right to suggest
doing just that. I have noticed two or three of my boats with delaminating ply.
Some are easier to fix but this looks like i need to work on most if not all of the hull
to be sure to get her watertight again.
Yes, resin and thin glass paper looks a likely solution but I don't want to change the hull
profile to much.

Many thanks....
Nordlys.

Colin Bishop · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2012, 08:20:59 pm »

I think you need to find out why it is coming apart. Is water getting in due to impact damage? If so then cleaning out the crack, letting it dry out and then running in some thin epoxy or Super Phatic glue followed by some car body filler and then repainting will sort it out.

Have you let water lie in the hull after using the boat so that it has soaked in from the inside? Again, make sure it is fully dried out and then give it a coat of resin, plyester, epoxy or Ezecote all over the inside of the hull to waterproof it.

Hulls don't come apart for no reason. If you can work out why then you are half way towards a solution.

Colin

Nordlys · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2012, 08:34:53 pm »

Hi,
Water is entering through the delaminations via the outside
due to aged paintwork which has left parts of the hull exposed that I
hadn't noticed.
I've probably sailed the boat 3-4 times without noticing the underside paint wearing a bit thin.

There has been no impact - it is just a gradual deterioration of the outer paintwork. Plenty
of water taken on this last sailing (not a flood) drying out now while I enquire how to proceed.
Certainly no problem coating the inside of the hull - its the outside that I would like to apply
my best efforts.
Thank you
Nordlys...

Stavros · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2012, 08:41:28 pm »

One way to repair this fairly easily is to use a dremel with a roughing out bit or even a router bit in it,after you have done this fill it with 2 part epoxy personally I Zap epoxy please don't use araldite.Rub this down and use filler if necc to get the hull profile to the correct shape and simply repaint,I have had this on a couple of S/H wooden boats in the past and have used this method successfully.If you was to totally re tissue the hull it will become a major job.After you have repaired the hull I would personally strip all the electrics out of the hull and get some grp resin form halfords or similar mix the resin and simply pour into the hull obviously turning it so the resin can get everywhere to waterproof it completely.As others have allready stated make sure the hull has been fully dried out before attempting the repair

Dave

Nordlys · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2012, 09:03:21 pm »

Hello Dave, Yes I will be leaving the hull to dry out thoroughly now then I think I'll
attempt local repairs after removing some material (carefully) as you suggest rather
than treating the entire outer hull.
I need, of course, to stop the water getting in as a priority.
Was that 'Zap Epoxy' that you are using?
I have plenty of Halfords resin. (At the moment)!

Thanks...

Nordlys.

Stavros · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2012, 10:54:33 pm »

yes Zap epoxy I simply can not fault it

Dave

Nordlys · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2012, 09:15:01 am »

I notice that the Zap Epoxys come in 5 - 15 & 30 minute and
Finishing Resin.
Is the finishing resin the one to use?

Didn't realise there were so many types.

Nordlys....

essex2visuvesi · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2012, 09:28:47 am »

I'd say go for the 30 min... the slower setting resins give a stronger bond

Finishing resin is for skimming over the entire hull

Nordlys · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2012, 03:29:26 pm »

I've decided to lay a narrow length of fibreglass blanket down each side of the hull
where the ply join is separating and a length down the centre over the keel
and cover with resin.

This should prevent any chance of a leak through the joins at least.

I will cover any flaws and hollows with P38 - usually does the trick.
Drying out nicely now in the afternoon sun
I can post more photos as I go if anyone is interested -I'm grateful for all
the suggestions - so helpful to get a confirmation of an idea.

Nordlys.

TheLongBuild · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:00:52 pm »

Looking at the picture of you Hull, as you can see the original nails, would it not be better to strip all the paint away , sand , seal and then light glass cloth or such ? and then also run the resin inside the boat as well.

Nordlys · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:16:17 pm »

Yes, that is what I have in mind to do. I will strip away most of the paint in immediate areas
then continue with the process.
What kind of 'seal' would you use or have in mind?
The 'light glass cloth' I thought of using comes from Halfords - do you
know the type? Light enough?
And end up coating inside with a layer of resin.

Nordlys.

TheLongBuild · « **Reply #14 on:** August 31, 2012, 04:21:18 pm »

I would have probably just used sanding sealer or just dope, however for ply they may not be the best..

pompebled · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2012, 10:46:10 pm »

Quote from: Nordlys on August 31, 2012, 04:16:17 pm

I will strip away most of the paint in immediate areas.
What kind of 'seal' would you use or have in mind?
The 'light glass cloth' I thought of using comes from Halfords - do you
know the type? Light enough?
And end up coating inside with a layer of resin.
Nordlys.

Hi Nordlys,

This is what I call light cloth:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10903
I can't get that at the local Halfords, they only carry polyester and non woven glass, the stuff to repair car bodies, unsuitable for your purpose.
"Most of the paint" will only work if the structure of the wood is visable, as epoxy doesn't bond well with paint.

I'd repair the cracks with 24h epoxy resin, sand the repaired spots back into shape and cover the entire hull with glasscloth end 24h epoxy resin.
Don't attempt to glass a hull with the 30 minute stuff, that's how long it'll take to set completely, the 24h epoxy gives you that long to work with it...

I have recently covered my 110 cm wooden M.A.S. with glasscloth and epoxy; as the edges needed to stay sharp (glasscloth can't be forced around a tight radius anyway, not without vacuumbagging that is), I worked each flat(ish) surface separately, leaving a small overlap:

As you can see the structure of the glasscloth is still visible after the first layer.

Once cured, the cloth is cut with a sharp knife and sanded flush with the adjacing surface, which is covered next with glasscloth and epoxy.

This leaves you with a hull with razorsharp edges:

When all surfaces have been covered in (at least one) glasscloth, adding two more layers of epoxy resin will fill the weave, smoothening the surface, no filler needed:

I sanded through the glasscloth on several spots, so these had to be re-done:

After light sanding and a few coats of epoxy, the hull is smooth all over.

If you work with 24h epoxy and you have the time to add another layer within 24h, you won't have to sand and degrease between layers, as you'll have sufficient chemical bonding.

Letting the epoxy cure in a warm surrounding allows you to add more layers in a shorter time, I managed three surfaces in a day, the entire hull took five days.

Regards, Jan.

Nordlys · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2012, 10:07:29 am »

Hello Jan,
Thats very interesting and detailed - thanks.
Can you recall the weight/grade of cloth in your photo -would it be
48g as shown in the photo on the website you sent?
They dont look quite the same texture?
Would a 400g cloth be useable -found some on Ebay.

Thanks

Nordlys

Subculture · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2012, 10:24:00 am »

No 400gram will be very heavy. 48g cloth is very thin- almost like tissue. HK go thinner still, for very lightweight reinforcement, but the 48gram cloth will work well. Thicker cloth uses more resin, is harder to fill and will add quite a bit of weight. All you need is thin coat to keep the damp out, the strength is already in the hull from the wood. With a thin layer of glass and epoxy, you will have a composite construction which will be incredibly tough.

Nordlys · « **Reply #18 on:** September 01, 2012, 10:34:13 am »

Ah!
Thank you, thats very helpful info. There are plenty of weights to choose from on
ebay around the 50- 100g weight.
It is, as you say primarily to keep the damp out after all.
HK prices all in $ currency -are they not out of UK?

Thank you

Nordlys

Nordlys · « **Reply #19 on:** September 01, 2012, 12:09:09 pm »

I have found a glass cloth of 110g weight -would that be about right?
Combined with 24hr epoxy resin - as recommended - hopefully job done!
Thanks

Nordlys

Circlip · « **Reply #20 on:** September 01, 2012, 12:49:14 pm »

Another one to think about in this application. I've used Nylon or Silk. Providing you've stripped all the paint off the hull (Which is a necessity) before coating, wet out the material and treat as you would glass cloth. Paint the hull with Epoxy, lay on the cloth and use a dead credit card or similar to squeegee excess resin.

Regards Ian.

HS93 (RIP) · « **Reply #21 on:** September 01, 2012, 12:55:44 pm »

As Ian has said, you can use this cloth.

http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/pages/clothsandresins.htm

the 0.6oz cloth is good for this, we have used it (Red and myself) on fire boats and a huntsman 28 you will have to remove all paint first though look at red181 new fire boat thread I thing he about to show how he did it.

peter

Nordlys · « **Reply #22 on:** September 01, 2012, 02:02:17 pm »

Thanks for both posts.
I'll look for a lighter cloth!
Then commence paint stripping.

But I can't find that thread for Red181?

Nordlys..

Nordlys · « **Reply #23 on:** September 01, 2012, 07:46:42 pm »

Hi Peter,
Do you know if the Eze-Kote resin is anything like or similar in
effectiveness to the Halfords resin.
(Only I have loads of the Halfords and Eze-Kote seems pretty expensive)?

Thanks,

Nordlys.

Nordlys · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2012, 06:37:49 pm »

Jan, Longbuild - can you tell me the name of the 24hr Epoxy resin please.
Would it be Zap by any chance?
That seems to be available at my local model shop.
Somehow didn't think Eze-Kote was quite the right stuff? Am I wrong here?

Nordlys

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Author Topic: My first boat - splitting apart? (Read 12589 times)

Stavros

Stavros